Silver under $25 AU again. Is stacking starting to SUCK ?

Gullintanni said:
Court Jester said:
it simply has not over decades out performed many other asset classes

that is fact.

It is a good forced savings measure and hedge against inflation not the best of investments however espically if you need to flip a lot of physical in a hurry.
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Just out of interest what would have been good returns?
In 1998 silver $5 an OZT then 2008 it was $10 and id bet in 2018 itll be $20 an OZT (all USD).
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it was poor investment choice vs stocks or real estate over that period which had similar or better gains AND was making a return (dividends or rent) as well

just to illistrate it as you cherry picked some data as to how bad silver was as an investment vs housing, if you bought a 200-250K house in Sydney in the 90's it would be worth over a $1M now AND you would have been getting paid rent (or using negative gearing) over that time making the total return even higher

you silver is a lump of metal returning nothing yearly so using your cherry picked data you would have real world returns of approx 70% (taking into account inflation losses over 10 years)
 
Court Jester said:
it was poor investment choice vs stocks or real estate over that period which had similar or better gains AND was making a return (dividends or rent) as wel.r 10 years
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4
Of course you replied while i was in editing,LOL.
 
One more thing Jester , of course you are correct Re: Stocks and property BUT it may well be the case that many who stack silver are doing so because they do not have the ability to throw 20,30,or 100 thousand $$$$ at property or stocks.
Just a thought.
 
Gullintanni said:
One more thing Jester , of course you are correct Re: Stocks and property BUT it may well be the case that many who stack silver are doing so because they do not have the ability to throw 20,30,or 100 thousand $$$$ at property or stocks.
Just a thought.
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you can buy stocks in small amounts similar to silver so I dont see your problem here. ( admittedly the fees as a % are much higher in small lots)

a house is a bit harder but not impossible to get especially if you look at taking a loan out which is easier to get against housing than most other assets.
 
Interesting that nobody ever mentions the premiums and other associated costs like postage. After you take those two factors into account the spot price would have to go significantly upwards for any real gains to be made. Really, it's best to find a way to combat the ridiculous premiums by flipping or selling crap on Ebay or garage sales etc, to raise extra revenue to deal with the excessive costs associated. How can silver be a great deal ? When you have already forked out 20-30 percent more than it's market value? It's a bad deal to start with, and it's even a worse deal now as many coins simply milk spot so flipping becomes hazardous. And this milk spot issue is totally rigged. I'm not buying the excuses anymore. Any collector value is automatically diminished once the blight appears. And notice how all those who remain in the industry are tight lipped on the issue ? After all this time there is still no fix ( and most likely never will be ). Which suggests a deliberate ploy to recirculate silver back into the system, rather than being stockpiled by collectors or stackers.

For those new to the game do your research else your just bleeding hard earned money, and best to find a old sock to stick it in. For those who can flip, swap out, build ounces it's a great way to stack. But Court Jester is correct - silver is going sideways, and even if silver continuously goes up in price while buying ( which I think is a better deal ) there will be initial losses on the new silver bought. But of course a better return on cheaper silver bought in the past. I have never really subscribed to the notion when precious metals flat lines for many years it's a great time to buy. Usually the dealers, pumpers, and flippers usher the words -" It's a great time to buy " ! Personally, it's the worst time to buy if you have no contingencies or strategies in place. On a final note for those who quote phrases by saying, "If the system is rigged then why be part of it if you know it's rigged ? ". The problem is the rigged system becomes so re-rigged that most of us are caught off guard by daily tactics. There is no limit these days to how far some will go to fleece others, and usually with Government backing.
 
silversearcher said:
Interesting that nobody ever mentions the premiums and other associated costs like postage. After you take those two factors into account the spot price would have to go significantly upwards for any real gains to be made. Really, it's best to find a way to combat the ridiculous premiums by flipping or selling crap on Ebay or garage sales etc, to raise extra revenue to deal with the excessive costs associated. How can silver be a great deal ?
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Easy, trade unallocated or pooled silver.
Current Perth Mint Buy/Sell price is :
uBs8e6I.png


Add on a 1% trade fee and a small baring charge for pooled silver, and it's possible to day trade silver and make a profit on the really big moves like 5% in a day.
 
This thread is PM heresy :o

A big currencies collapse and GFC is coming. I'll keep stacking thanks!
 
silversearcher said:
Interesting that nobody ever mentions the premiums and other associated costs like postage. After you take those two factors into account the spot price would have to go significantly upwards for any real gains to be made.
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The same illusion exists in real estate investment. Few take into account the actual costs incurred between time of buying and time of selling.
 
Court Jester said:
It is a good forced savings measure and hedge against inflation not the best of investments however espically if you need to flip a lot of physical in a hurry.
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Not sure how it's done in Australia, but let me tell you this (Europe): one phone call, then I'll have to wait a few hours for the white-van-man to ring the bell (insured transport, twenty quid, make it 30 AUD), and a max. of two days later the money is in my account.

As for the spread, please judge yourself (prices in 11:00 a.m. GMT):

Kangaroo 20,00 -- 19,66
Maple Leaf 19,95 -- 19,65
Wiener Phil. 20,12 -- 19,64
 
Stoic Phoenix said:
sammysilver said:
Investors invest, and stackers stack. Don't confuse the two.
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Good point but in PM's the line between the two is very blurry.
If a stacker only stacks then not many fit the bill on this forum.
How many can put their hand up and say they have never sold any of their stack? Im guessing less than 1 in 20.
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My hand is up!

Many silver stackers become silver collectors and I am glad to say I no longer need to support flipper prices re silver coins/rounds because I have already accumulated all the modern silver coins/rounds I didnt get before I started stacking at cheaper than flipper premium.

I have been lately buying very high premium small silver hand pours but never will I expect even the same let alone above return on them because they are just a "want" not a "need" or investment.

Once you have a playful amount of silver bullion then Gold becomes where its all at because Gold is Gold and Silver is and always was the poor mans alternative in PM,s so we should expect no change in either the near or distant future.

As mentioned the silver coin gravy train for modern silver bullion coins/rounds is coming to an end for flippers with the milk spotting issues getting worse or just pot luck at best! Next will be the loss of interest in Lunas due to spotting, over supply or lack of interest from buyers due to possible future milk spotting of seemingly unaffected silver ,this will render the highest priced Luna buyers a " Luna collector" as intended not an investor.

All physical modern silver bullion should be valued by the holder as no more than silver buy back price from a dealer or mint.

"They were forced to sell the family silver dont you know" bet they didnt mention they had Gold as well. :)
 
fishtaco said:
Stoic Phoenix said:
sammysilver said:
Investors invest, and stackers stack. Don't confuse the two.
Click to expand...


Good point but in PM's the line between the two is very blurry.
If a stacker only stacks then not many fit the bill on this forum.
How many can put their hand up and say they have never sold any of their stack? Im guessing less than 1 in 20.
Click to expand...

My hand is up!

Many silver stackers become silver collectors and I am glad to say I no longer need to support flipper prices re silver coins/rounds because I have already accumulated all the modern silver coins/rounds I didnt get before I started stacking at cheaper than flipper premium.

I have been lately buying very high premium small silver hand pours but never will I expect even the same let alone above return on them because they are just a "want" not a "need" or investment.

Once you have a playful amount of silver bullion then Gold becomes where its all at because Gold is Gold and Silver is and always was the poor mans alternative in PM,s so we should expect no change in either the near or distant future.

As mentioned the silver coin gravy train for modern silver bullion coins/rounds is coming to an end for flippers with the milk spotting issues getting worse or just pot luck at best! Next will be the loss of interest in Lunas due to spotting, over supply or lack of interest from buyers due to possible future milk spotting of seemingly unaffected silver ,this will render the highest priced Luna buyers a " Luna collector" as intended not an investor.

All physical modern silver bullion should be valued by the holder as no more than silver buy back price from a dealer or mint.

"They were forced to sell the family silver dont you know" bet they didnt mention they had Gold as well. :)
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The good thing about this most recent run up to over $20 is that it enabled me to dump several rounds/coins that I regretted buying during the $14-$17 price range over the past year or so and I made a bit of profit.

I only buy cool stuff I find cheap nowadays, no more stacking just to be stacking. For example, I picked up a dozen or so older style Libertads this week for $1.25 over spot and I got to cherry pick them out of small stash. All were common years like 83, 84, 85 but all I picked out are BU and really nice. Really beats buying plain old new bullion rounds/bars for $1 over spot.

Just my opinion.

Jim
 
Jim4silver said:
All physical modern silver bullion should be valued by the holder as no more than silver buy back price from a dealer or mint.
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Yes precisely.
That's why paying a hefty premium is a giveaway.
If I had have the choice, I wouldn't have had any modern bullion.
But where I live, old coins are too scarce to find to fullfill a "save in silver".
And I was in a hurry after a hesitation, which tends to bring about the worst decisions one can make.
Later on, when I swapped new savings to silver, so lower quantities, I concentrated on old coins as much as a could, and now I consider these as the last things to sell.
Libertads I'd would grant an exception, I do like the newer design, it's much more impressive than ASE let alone Phil, and at the time Libertads were about the same price as Phil, a couple rare opportunities I didn't let go. They never got cheaper (here) despite the lower spot.
 
Skyrocket said:
This thread is PM heresy :o

A big currencies collapse and GFC is coming. I'll keep stacking thanks!
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Wouldn't it be wiser to be more diverse Skyrocket ? For example. When big currencies collapse and GFC is coming nobody will want a silver bar or a silver round to trade with. Wouldn't gold jewellery be a better option ? I know that during the second world war my grand parents traded jewellery in Europe such as gold wedding rings, gold watches and labour in exchange for food from farmers. Being that they were recognisable items. But honestly, you try trading a Lunar, or a silver bar ! Most people haven't got a clue what it is - just ask Mark Dice ! Can you actually imagine yourself having to carry all your possessions plus all your ounces of silver in a trolley or pram from farm to farm and trade out your labour or jewelly for bullion for food ? That was the reality that tens of thousands people ( non Jewish ) all over Europe had to do to survive as the Nazi's turfed people out of their homes, and even forced farmers to work for them. And the level of poverty was even worse in the larger cities such as Amsterdam, Brussels etc, as there were no farms to source food from. How many times have we heard stories of Australian men and women having to go rabbiting to feed their families during times of war or depression. Honestly, if you feel that there will be a currency collapse or GFC which is ultimately inevitable, bullion will not be the silver bullet. And for those who think they can just rock up to a bullion dealers door or trade on silverstackers every week and convert bullion for cash are absolutely deluded, as these guys will be cash strapped themselves. I know that so many on this forum spruik that bullion is the panacea in GFC or total financial meltdown. But maybe a weapon of choice will do more good to stave off rampaging masses of starving iced out zombies. That will have more impact than a Lunar Rooster. Also, learn some agricultural skills, and move out of major towns or cities, and be part of a strong community in such times will put you in good stead. As what your talking about, just having bullion will not cut the mustard in such times.
 
silversearcher said:
Skyrocket said:
This thread is PM heresy :o

A big currencies collapse and GFC is coming. I'll keep stacking thanks!
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be wiser to be more diverse Skyrocket ? For example. When big currencies collapse and GFC is coming nobody will want a silver bar or a silver round to trade with. Wouldn't gold jewellery be a better option ? I know that during the second world war my grand parents traded jewellery in Europe such as gold wedding rings, gold watches and labour in exchange for food from farmers. Being that they were recognisable items. But honestly, you try trading a Lunar, or a silver bar ! Most people haven't got a clue what it is - just ask Mark Dice ! Can you actually imagine yourself having to carry all your possessions plus all your ounces of silver in a trolley or pram from farm to farm and trade out your labour or jewelly for bullion for food ? That was the reality that tens of thousands people ( non Jewish ) all over Europe had to do to survive as the Nazi's turfed people out of their homes, and even forced farmers to work for them. And the level of poverty was even worse in the larger cities such as Amsterdam, Brussels etc, as there were no farms to source food from. How many times have we heard stories of Australian men and women having to go rabbiting to feed their families during times of war or depression. Honestly, if you feel that there will be a currency collapse or GFC which is ultimately inevitable, bullion will not be the silver bullet. And for those who think they can just rock up to a bullion dealers door or trade on silverstackers every week and convert bullion for cash are absolutely deluded, as these guys will be cash strapped themselves. I know that so many on this forum spruik that bullion is the panacea in GFC or total financial meltdown. But maybe a weapon of choice will do more good to stave off rampaging masses of starving iced out zombies. That will have more impact than a Lunar Rooster. Also, learn some agricultural skills, and move out of major towns or cities, and be part of a strong community in such times will put you in good stead. As what your talking about, just having bullion will not cut the mustard in such times.
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When the GFC happens I won't be trading any of my silver for food. You must be thinking of a SHTF scenario. And in that case I will have stocked up lots of food and ammo in my country retreat.
 
Retirement age was instituted a very long time ago, when the average life expectancy was actually loweer than the retirement age of 65. So if you survived to 65, you were going to get some cash (congrats you survived pass 65).

Yes today sucks. I'm debating on loading up on Au, but I'm thinking it's not finished correcting.
 
Silver has dropped to under AU$23.50 now. Either extra sucky, more suckiness to come, or jubilant buying opportunity.
 
For me personally seeing the latest drop kinda hurt a bit. I've been stacking for the last 5 years and used to seeing the big run ups and drops.

Seeing it run up again this year only to get smacked down again even in spite of the current monetary environment kinda has me losing faith a bit.

Obviously there is manipulation on some level going on, that's clear from the price action. But can I watch this BS for another 5 years? I doubt it and would likely sell a good portion of my stack if this type of yoyo type action were to continue.
 
Man it only needs to drop another 40 cents or so for me to do my next $1 drop buy at $18 an ounce. Been buying on ebay where they have a sale on coins at only 70 cents above spot (and saw some bars too, they sold thousands that last drop and sale on the bars and coins). Loving these fast drops. Hitting my marks way faster than I could hope. The last buy point order hasn't even gotten shipped yet. I guess I could anguish on just buying it a dollar more so soon ago, but I see it as great, less waiting, and closer to my goal. Not sure how long it could take to hit that last 40 cents though. Might bounce around for some time. Would be nice if we got a fast drop. And the sale ends in two days. If it takes longer I'll have to find another sale. They are constantly having them between all the companies. Just one or two products here and there. They rotate it depending on what they want to dump at the moment.
 
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