Silver Bars VS Silver Coins

[rodrigo]

Perth baby!

What weighs more - a ton of feathers or a ton of brick? Do the math (lol)

Perth, NTR...it shines right?

 

[adrenalin]

My opinion is if things go crazy and silver becomes very expensive, then I think the premiums currently enjoyed will count for very little or nothing.
This will be in part, because everyone with a dragon or kook or whatever is going to come into the seller's market.
If you're trying to sell a dragon and there are 2000 other people trying to do the same, then you're not going to be enjoying that "rarity" premium.

Also, if it comes to that stage where people are moving into PMs to protect themselves from fiat decline, people will be wanting gold and silver in any form.
They won't be fussy and they won't understand why you insist on a premium when an ounce of anything else costs less.
Again, just my thoughts.

Totally agree as well.

Although, whilst the 10oz Dragons are still about the same price as a 10oz bar, I am going to suggest getting the dragons as they have a 'chance' of retaining a premium in the future.

2000 10oz Silver Dragon...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2000-10-...311?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb9bccaff

 

[No1joey]

Wow. Why pay over 1000 for 10 oz when you could be holding 30 oz for the same amount. 1 oz of silver is 1 oz silver if your into stacking for smart & safe investing. Otherwise your just a collector not too concerned about recouping your premiums in the future. How is paying a premium insurance? That makes no sense.

There are two types of stackers emotionless investors, & emotional enthusiasts.

 

[thatguy]

Wow. Why pay over 1000 for 10 oz when you could be holding 30 oz for the same amount. 1 oz of silver is 1 oz silver if your into stacking for smart & safe investing. Otherwise your just a collector not too concerned about recouping your premiums in the future. How is paying a premium insurance? That makes no sense.

There are two types of stackers emotionless investors, & emotional enthusiasts.

OR Me and people I sell to (now to put it in practice (stoopid 10oz kooks!))

 

[No1joey]

It's not like Perth mint sold it at 1000% over spot if they did then I would agree the premiums exist for a solid and recognized reason. 1 oz dragons were $38 when they sold out then people are paying double to me that is collecting and not investing. Your counting on collectors to be there and pay what you paid - at the minimum. Please make sure you at least have some silver you can offload if you need to and not be hoping to recoup +100% premiums.

 

[fishball]

How is paying a premium insurance? That makes no sense.

You pay $12.50 premium for a 2012 10oz dragon over a 10oz Perth Mint bar (Goldstackers spread).

By sacrificing 0.4oz silver every 10oz you are protected in case silver spot price does not go parabolic (to $1000+).

Historically speaking, 10oz lunars have outperformed 10oz bars in terms of their premiums over spot.

There are no older year 10oz lunars which are only $12.50 above the price of a Perth Mint bar.

It's not like Perth mint sold it at 1000% over spot if they did then I would agree the premiums exist for a solid and recognized reason.

Actually that is completely wrong. Perth Mint sells some crappy colored numismatics for 200-300% over spot and soon after release they are worth maybe spot + 20%, if you get a buyer that is. Well maybe spot +100%, but you're still losing.

An article was posted on here recently about the Royal Mint and their ripoff numismatic issues.

The point of coins is that you buy bullion coins with the potential of it becoming numismatic in the future ($$$$!), if (big if, even koalas do) it doesn't become numismatic worst case scenario you still can sell it as bullion at same prices as bars. You lose the $12.50 premium but the silver spot price should more than compensate $1.25/oz premium.

THAT is insurance.

 

[No1joey]

I bought 3 x 10 oz dragons worked out to be $36 per oz Inc postage.

Don't understand why people would pay $450/$500 for them as seen on eBay.

People were paying $360 for Perth mint bars when they were selling them for $300

 

[No1joey]

MMm hate those coloured coins or 'commemorative' ones..

 

[Jislizard]

I bought 3 x 10 oz dragons worked out to be $36 per oz Inc postage.

.

You didn't buy generic bars?!

Throwing your money away!

People are diverse, they buy silver for a variety of reasons, if we all bought silver for the same reason there would only be one product available. Eventually the mints will see what is popular and what is not, and they will kill the duds, until then it is up to you to decide what to buy.

For the first two years of stacking all I would buy were round 50 cents and 50% pre dec, wouldn't touch numis or bars or gold, five years later I have them all in my stack and continue to add them as appropriate, spot increases = buy numis, spot decreases = buy bars, silver does nothing = buy other investments.

It takes a while but your views on silver do change, particulalry the longer you are on this site, I even bought a Panda last year (gave it to a kids daughter as a Christmas present but it is a start)


EDIT eBay is a law unto intself, I think most eBayers are lazy and treat it as a one stop shop "I once bought a cheap second hand t-shirt on eBay = everything on eBay is a bargain"

I saw "Touching North", an Andy Goldsworthy book on eBay for around 80+. A quick Google and I found an art gallery up in Scotland selling them for 35, they had them on the shelf for ages, I bought three of them and the guy on the phone even said he thought he could probably get a lot more for them if he stuck them on eBay (no idea why he didn't, just an employee I guess)

The sellers have to add at least 10% in order to make a profit otherwise they end up losing through paypal and eBay fees, this seems to set the low price for the all Buy it Now sales. The rest is just eBayers getting caught up in the frenzy.

 

[No1joey]

I bought 3 x 10 oz dragons worked out to be $36 per oz Inc postage.

.

You didn't buy generic bars?!

Throwing your money away!

Generic bars same price, give or take $1 per oz. No brainer. Not exactly +100% premium. Or more.

 

[Jislizard]

I bought 3 x 10 oz dragons worked out to be $36 per oz Inc postage.

.

You didn't buy generic bars?!

Throwing your money away!

Generic bars same price, give or take $1 per oz. No brainer. Not exactly +100% premium. Or more.

You know I am just teasing! I know what you mean, I would have done the same, in fact I did.

However when people say (not necessarily you) there is no point in paying for a premium because when you melt it down, it will be worth the same, they miss the point somewhat.

I am still buying and selling fractional silver coins from 1911, they have changed hands many times and in all that time no one has melted them down, it is unlikely that the people I pass them onto will melt them down either. Same with proofs, there are a whole load of silver items which will be melted down before any of the numismatic items. Thinking only about the weight of silver and not about its form reduces your options massively and there are plenty of willing purchasers out there who are more than happy to part with good cash for numismatic items, it is known as the Hobby of Kings for a reason.

If you are into this for wealth preservation, as a way to stop inflation from cutting into your savings then it is as good a way as any, possibly gold more so than silver.

If you are looking at this for investment purposes with a view to making money then in the current market, the numismatic side is something you should not be blind to.

Silver isn't just Silver!

 

[JohnBB]

Hi
Just like too add my 2c worth , I just picked up 1 x 10oz dragon for $361 and got a $20 gift card.. which means i only paid $341 for my 10oz dragon
apparently westfields shopping centers are having a promotion where you spend $150 and get a $20 gift card.
So i got my dragon for $34.10 a ounce.

 

[thatguy]

Hi
Just like too add my 2c worth , I just picked up 1 x 10oz dragon for $361 and got a $20 gift card.. which means i only paid $341 for my 10oz dragon
apparently westfields shopping centers are having a promotion where you spend $150 and get a $20 gift card.
So i got my dragon for $34.10 a ounce.

WINNING! , sucks to be on the GC

 

[Lunardragon]

Hi
Just like too add my 2c worth , I just picked up 1 x 10oz dragon for $361 and got a $20 gift card.. which means i only paid $341 for my 10oz dragon
apparently westfields shopping centers are having a promotion where you spend $150 and get a $20 gift card.
So i got my dragon for $34.10 a ounce.

which westfield? is the promo still valid ?

 

[banjo]

My opinion is if things go crazy and silver becomes very expensive, then I think the premiums currently enjoyed will count for very little or nothing.
This will be in part, because everyone with a dragon or kook or whatever is going to come into the seller's market.
If you're trying to sell a dragon and there are 2000 other people trying to do the same, then you're not going to be enjoying that "rarity" premium.

It's all about your sentiment on silver...

If things go crazy and silver goes to the moon who is going to care about recouping a $10 premium, no one will. What are the chances of silver going to the moon any time soon, slim?

If however silver stays flat, more likely it seems, then your premiums are safe and may even increase as your coins become more collectable. Your silver bar will not increase and will stay the same value, which is good too, it is a hedge against inflation.

If silver tanks, then you have some numismatic value in your coins and they will perform better than bars.

If they discover that you can make silver out of thin air then at least you have the face value on a coin, bars become less than useful.

It is all down to how well you think silver is going to do, personally I think staying the same is more likely than going to the moon any time soon which is more likely than it tanking, so I stack coins over bars.

I agree with you, but you should go with both forms.

If you are going to stack and never sell anything until it goes to the moon then bars are fine.

I however think that it may be 10 years or so before silver takes off, in that time I will probably sell a lot of the coins to collectors at a profit and buy bars with the money, the bars I will keep until the time has come, or pass them on down the family line.

No one gets really excited about adding another plain bar to the stack, but adding a new coin, that's different, plus you have the mighty media machine of the Perth Mint doing all your advertising for you and getting the crowds excited for the new products which in turn drives up prices for the older products. If they at least stamped a date on the bars they might attract a small premium.

 

[fishball]

Hi
Just like too add my 2c worth , I just picked up 1 x 10oz dragon for $361 and got a $20 gift card.. which means i only paid $341 for my 10oz dragon
apparently westfields shopping centers are having a promotion where you spend $150 and get a $20 gift card.
So i got my dragon for $34.10 a ounce.

which westfield? is the promo still valid ?

http://www.westfield.com.au/burwood/news-and-events/gift-card-spend-promo

The Bonus $20 Gift Card is Back...

Now's the time to splash out at Westfield Burwood.

Simply spend $150 or more at participating* stores on the same day, and recieve a BONUS $20 Westfield Gift Card*.

When: Now - Sunday 19 February 2012 (or until stocks last)

Participating Westfields:

Participating Centres      Qualifying Spend              Maximum number of gifts           Maximum total prize value

NSW

Westfield Burwood         $150.00 2,250    $45,000.00

Westfield Chatswood    $150.00 2,000     $40,000.00

Westfield Eastgardens   $150.00 1,200     $24,000.00

Westfield Figtree             $120.00 850         $17,000.00

Westfield Hornsby          $150.00 2,250     $45,000.00

Westfield Hurstville        $120.00 4,200     $84,000.00

Westfield Kotara              $120.00 3,250     $65,000.00

Westfield Liverpool         $120.00 5,000     $100,000.00

Westfield Miranda          $150.00 2,000     $40,000.00

Westfield Mount Druitt $120.00 1,960     $39,200.00

Westfield North Rocks   $120.00 1,500     $30,000.00

Westfield Parramatta     $150.00 2,500     $50,000.00

Westfield Penrith            $150.00 2,000     $40,000.00

Westfield Tuggerah        $120.00 3,200     $64,000.00

Westfield Warrawong    $120.00 1,300     $26,000.00

TOTAL                   35,460   $709,200.00

ACT

Westfield Belconnen      $150.00 1,200     $24,000.00

Westfield Woden            $150.00 1,500     $30,000.00

TOTAL                   2,700     $54,000.00

QLD

Westfield Carindale        $150.00 1,155     $23,100.00

Westfield Chermside     $150.00 2,500     $50,000.00

Westfield Garden City   $150.00 1,000     $20,000.00

Westfield Helensvale     $120.00 2,100     $42,000.00

Westfield North Lakes   $120.00 3,700     $74,000.00

Westfield Strathpine      $120.00 1,500     $30,000.00

TOTAL                   11,955   $239,100.00

SA

Westfield Marion             $150.00 2,000     $40,000.00

Westfield Tea Tree Plaza              $120.00 3,000     $60,000.00

Westfield West Lakes    $120.00 2,300     $46,000.00

TOTAL                   7,300     $146,000.00

VIC

Westfield Fountain Gate              $150.00 2,500     $50,000.00

Westfield Southland       $150.00 3,250     $65,000.00

Westfield Airport West $120.00 1,800     $36,000.00

Westfield Geelong          $120.00 4,150     $83,000.00

Westfield Plenty Valley $120.00 2,500     $50,000.00

TOTAL                   14,200   $284,000.00

WA

Westfield Carousel          $150.00 1,500     $30,000.00

Westfield Whitford City                $150.00 1,350     $27,000.00

Westfield Innaloo            $120.00 1,600     $32,000.00

TOTAL                   4,450     $89,000.00

NATIONAL

TOTAL                   76,065   $1,521,300.00

Source: http://www.westfield.com.au/au/be-inspired/features/2011-ss/01-spend-win

 

[SilverNash]

I have a few Taku's but only because where i but from you pay the sane price for bars as coins (same premium on both)

 

[HoskinsStreet]

For the first two years of stacking all I would buy were round 50 cents and 50% pre dec, wouldn't touch numis or bars or gold, five years later I have them all in my stack and continue to add them as appropriate, spot increases = buy numis, spot decreases = buy bars, silver does nothing = buy other investments.

The 50% pre dec silver, how can I check the legit price on this?

 

[Jislizard]

For the first two years of stacking all I would buy were round 50 cents and 50% pre dec, wouldn't touch numis or bars or gold, five years later I have them all in my stack and continue to add them as appropriate, spot increases = buy numis, spot decreases = buy bars, silver does nothing = buy other investments.

The 50% pre dec silver, how can I check the legit price on this?

http://www.silverstackers.com/calculators/

it goes for spot if it isn't in great condition, it used to sell for under spot, still might be able to ge some for less but getting harder to find

 

[HoskinsStreet]

For the first two years of stacking all I would buy were round 50 cents and 50% pre dec, wouldn't touch numis or bars or gold, five years later I have them all in my stack and continue to add them as appropriate, spot increases = buy numis, spot decreases = buy bars, silver does nothing = buy other investments.

The 50% pre dec silver, how can I check the legit price on this?

http://www.silverstackers.com/calculators/

it goes for spot if it isn't in great condition, it used to sell for under spot, still might be able to ge some for less but getting harder to find

But if you had 10oz of .999 and 10oz of .925 and 10oz of .50, I assume the .999 is worth the most right?