Silver as Money - Welcome to the Stone Age?

C

chowdersilver

New Member
I have been watching a few videos on youtube showing silver mining and couldn't help but think this seemed like a crazy medium of exchange. The thought of more digging to produce more money seems crazy.

When I was a kid, we used encyclopedias. Today, we use the Internet. While one could argue encyclopedias were the first (at least for me), I wouldn't think of going back to such an inefficient approach.

I get the idea that this approach doesn't allow for simply printing money. Fair enough, but figure out a better approach/algorithm that doesn't require people dig in the ground just to overcome this problem. I believe our current system of printing won't work long-term, but digging in the ground is not the solution.

Silver as an asset, yes! Silver a hobby, yes! Silver as an industrial metal, yes! Silver as a precious metal, yes!

Silver as money ever again, no way (just like an encyclopedia).
 
If (and when) fiat money collapses and super inflation hits, would you prefer to buy goods with a wheel barrow filled with paper money like some African countries do now or would you prefer to buy with a few silver bars or coins?
 
that's why PM's work as money. they can not simply be printed into existence, they must be obtained through effort. this gives them value.
 
I very much doubt that we will ever see Silver as money again, nor will carved stones be likely to pop up as trade markers. However, the one thing that seems universal is human greed. Give anyone a printing press or an algorithm that can generate a medium of exchange and sooner or later it is abused.

Having a few assets which are based upon scarcity and appeal is just spreading the risk, especially if some them are more fungible. Silver and Gold are universally known for value, even if that perception is incorrect.

Digging holes in the ground is done because there is a profitable business in it. When no-one wants Silver (or the metals for which Silver is a by-product) no more holes will be dug, but don't hold your breath. We are a long way from transmutation.
 
I believe the population is exploding more quickly than we could pull silver out of the ground. If silver were monetised then its value would continue to grow due to scarcity. We would get coins that were worth more melted than face value again.
 
Skyrocket said:
If (and when) fiat money collapses and super inflation hits, would you prefer to buy goods with a wheel barrow filled with paper money like some African countries do now or would you prefer to buy with a few silver bars or coins?
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I have really enjoyed reading different perspectives on this board, and while I don't think the US will ever face buying something like bread with buckets of money in my lifetime (say next 50 years), nobody knows the future.

However, I try to make decisions based on probabilities. For instance, some majors pay more than others. A graduate degree tends to pay more than an undergraduate degree......

Moving forward, I do not have a scenario where in my lifetime anyone in the US will be buying goods with a wheel barrow filled with paper money. It could happen, but like millions of scenarios (i.e., aliens stealing from my garden), I have no plan.

That is not to say a one-in-whatever benefit of having a silver hobby doesn't provide a bit of insurance for the scenario you described. I can see it now as I take my New Zealand Darth Vader coin to buy milk.

I do think that a lot of information pushing silver only tells one side of the story. Look at the huge demand for silver to make X, while ignoring the reduced demand for silver to make Y.
 
I too don't think we'll ever go down to the grocer with a handful of junk silver and various rounds. The population is too big and not enough people own precious metals. You can't have a medium of exchange that no one owns. Hunger by those absent of coin would lead to riots and theft. Any remnants of a system would soon collapse.

I see precious metals as being useful coming out of a collapse, when there's order. Their purpose is to preserve what ever digital wealth you currently possess. Those residing in Cypress or Argentina would agree.
 
One thing I do take more seriously since joining this board is the debt. It's easy for someone to say the US has always been fine, and will be fine.

These years are probably off, but:

1980 - ~300,000 billion debt
1988 - ~3 trillion
2014 - ~18 trillion

Other than hobby, these numbers are my favorite reason to hold physical silver. What do you see as the endgame/tipping point? I really have no idea what the end game possibilities are. IMO, this is not a tin hat issue.
 
chowdersilver said:
When I was a kid, we used encyclopedias. Today, we use the Internet. While one could argue encyclopedias were the first (at least for me), I wouldn't think of going back to such an inefficient approach.
Click to expand...

Have you done much 'research'? (genuine question). I tell you, I have done enough and it is amazing how useful paper-based information is. The Internet, whilst useful, is so full of sh.. that it is of relatively limited value (you only have to see the crap that students make use of to realise that), and it is unstable and far too editable. Seriously, it has great downsides as an information source. Additionally, finding info - yes, searching, powerful tool, but depends on how things are 'indexed'. Information can simply be hidden by not indexing or others, who want their material upfront, simply swamp the search engines. Hence crap in front of pearls.

My point is, yes, Internet and electronic information has largely superceded encyclopaedias, but on the other hand encyclopaedias (and other printed information) still have seriously redeeming features. We currently have paper-based money and moving to digital money, but PMs as money still have significant advantages (imagine the effect on your Bitcoin of a significant computer virus - Ideas for Terrorists 101).
 
It's a good medium of exchange because it has value for ask the reasons you pointed out, precious metal, industrial uses etc. That gives it value and it's compact transferable nature makes it convenient and there is an added value because of its convenience as a value store.

Bitcoin is making currency through mining and burning coal in many cases. At least when you mine silver it can be used to make things after its been used for exchange.

It's not likely to be money again in our lifetimes but anything with value can be used as a value store and silver is liquid, convenient and recognised pretty much everywhere. It might not meet the strict definition of money but it's close enough.
 
The Crow said:
chowdersilver said:
When I was a kid, we used encyclopedias. Today, we use the Internet. While one could argue encyclopedias were the first (at least for me), I wouldn't think of going back to such an inefficient approach.
Click to expand...

Have you done much 'research'? (genuine question). I tell you, I have done enough and it is amazing how useful paper-based information is. The Internet, whilst useful, is so full of sh.. that it is of relatively limited value (you only have to see the crap that students make use of to realise that), and it is unstable and far too editable. Seriously, it has great downsides as an information source. Additionally, finding info - yes, searching, powerful tool, but depends on how things are 'indexed'. Information can simply be hidden by not indexing or others, who want their material upfront, simply swamp the search engines. Hence crap in front of pearls.

My point is, yes, Internet and electronic information has largely superceded encyclopaedias, but on the other hand encyclopaedias (and other printed information) still have seriously redeeming features. We currently have paper-based money and moving to digital money, but PMs as money still have significant advantages (imagine the effect on your Bitcoin of a significant computer virus - Ideas for Terrorists 101).
Click to expand...

Hi Crow,

Unfortunately yes :) lots and lots of research. Ironically, part of my research dossier is in the area of databases and analytics.
 
^^^
Fair enough! Can't argue with that. :)
I do find the modern storage of information problematic - the fact that things can be edited so readily and that access (links) so easily lost. Our library stops a subscription - no access to past issues. Went visiting a library at another uni and because I didn't 'belong', most current info (and this is 12+ years ago) was closed to me. Leaves an impression!!!

And I can only be very wary of Bitcoin - yes, it is the product of work, but exists only electronically. Mind you, Europeans (Germany, Hungary, etc.) discovered the value of paper-based money in the '20s.
 
I see it a bit this way. We're moving away from coinage and paper to digital electronic - that won't change. But goldmoney and even bitcoin might be showing the way ahead. You might be carrying grams and gram fractions of gold and silver as credit on your account that you can transact for goods and services with an iphone or card, but you won't be carrying silver in your pocket.

The central banks are accumulating gold and J Rickards reckons governments will eventually resort to 'world money' currently called SDRs (special drawing rights). He says SDRs will have a gold 'component' in some form.

Gold has always carried silver with it. The ratio of Gold:Silver might be changing, or might not, but it's hard to believe there will be an appreciation in the price or buying power of gold of the scale imagined without a significant advance in Silver as well.

Distinguishing between money and currency in the sense of 'store of value' versus 'medium of exchange' might be relevant. You could still use silver as a store of value, a money function, without carrying it around for exchange, which is money in its currency guise.
 
The prepper community would be the first to say that silver as money would be possible only in a total economic crash. The value of silver will be less that other items that people need (gunpowder or lead), but far greater than empty pockets. I'm not saying that they are right or wrong, but at the same time I have my family prepared to survive a SHTF situation. Even if we can produce our own food and protect ourselves from those that would take what we have.... eventually some trade would be required over a long term recovery. I assume the only people to trade with will be the preppers or the thieves.

Physical silver as a means of trade or as a means of preserving wealth is just a good idea. I am stacking regardless of the reason. If nothing else my kids will benefit from my "hobby" after I am gone.
 
Back in the early times gold, silver, copper, zinc and even lead had value due to the ability to make jewellry and idols from it. Gold and silver where the most prized due to their properties: shiny and corrosion resistent, malleable, visuallt attractive, rare. Gold and silver will retain value because people have not changed that much. We still like shiny things that are symbols of wealth and power. We aren't about to give that up.

Pms may not be money again in the cuurent world but they are still symbols od wealth. If you know history viking used hack silver as currency. Ie they would make a torc or arm ring and hack pieces off them to buy things. SHTF situations will be chaos for a while but when the chaos recedes we will all be back to wanting gold and silver to show wealth.
 
We are over a quadrillion of debt into the future globaly. A reset would be required for PM backed paper and comp digits. Then a debt outlaw would be in order. Simple
 
The Crow said:
chowdersilver said:
When I was a kid, we used encyclopedias. Today, we use the Internet. While one could argue encyclopedias were the first (at least for me), I wouldn't think of going back to such an inefficient approach.
Click to expand...

Have you done much 'research'? (genuine question). I tell you, I have done enough and it is amazing how useful paper-based information is. The Internet, whilst useful, is so full of sh.. that it is of relatively limited value (you only have to see the crap that students make use of to realise that), and it is unstable and far too editable. Seriously, it has great downsides as an information source. Additionally, finding info - yes, searching, powerful tool, but depends on how things are 'indexed'. Information can simply be hidden by not indexing or others, who want their material upfront, simply swamp the search engines. Hence crap in front of pearls.

My point is, yes, Internet and electronic information has largely superceded encyclopaedias, but on the other hand encyclopaedias (and other printed information) still have seriously redeeming features. We currently have paper-based money and moving to digital money, but PMs as money still have significant advantages (imagine the effect on your Bitcoin of a significant computer virus - Ideas for Terrorists 101).
Click to expand...
Yes, because you can't have encyclopedias online! :mad:
 
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