SHTF!

H

HotlineBling

New Member
Hi all, felt I needed to bring this up after a couple of conversations with various fellow stackers.
I must preface this by saying I am very pro-precious metals, as I subscribe to the idea that they are undervalued and agree with most on this forum that the SLV and GLD are subject to various forms of price rigging (substitute manipulation if you like) by big players. I do believe in PM historical use as (old money) currency as well as the value in various industrial applications. Like all trading markets I do believe there is scope to make money in PMs based on timing. Now here's what I don't agree with. I am always wondering why there are stackers that say they are in PMs in preparation for when SHTF. Do you really believe people will barter with you for your florins or round 50s in an economic collapse where resources for living is scarce?
I can see the argument that PMs have upside potential after the dust has settled. But I find it hard to believe PMs would actually do anything for you during an actual collapse. Personally I'd rather weapons and supplies and would not trade a single loaf of bread for silver or gold! Does anyone recall any real world valid examples of PMs shining as a beacon of light for SHTF scenarios at all? I'm not saying that there wouldn't be a shtf scenario in future but I genuinely believe the reasoning behind this theory of stacking is flawed without historical evidence that PMs will be of use at all.

Give me a like if you agree..or if I am wrong please explain as I stand to be corrected.
 
HotlineBling said:
Hi all, felt I needed to bring this up after a couple of conversations with various fellow stackers.
I must preface this by saying I am very pro-precious metals, as I subscribe to the idea that they are undervalued and agree with most on this forum that the SLV and GLD are subject to various forms of price rigging (substitute manipulation if you like) by big players. I do believe in PM historical use as (old money) currency as well as the value in various industrial applications. Like all trading markets I do believe there is scope to make money in PMs based on timing. Now here's what I don't agree with. I am always wondering why there are stackers that say they are in PMs in preparation for when SHTF. Do you really believe people will barter with you for your florins or round 50s in an economic collapse where resources for living is scarce?
I can see the argument that PMs have upside potential after the dust has settled. But I find it hard to believe PMs would actually do anything for you during an actual collapse. Personally I'd rather weapons and supplies and would not trade a single loaf of bread for silver or gold! Does anyone recall any real world valid examples of PMs shining as a beacon of light for SHTF scenarios at all? I'm not saying that there wouldn't be a shtf scenario in future but I genuinely believe the reasoning behind this theory of stacking is flawed without historical evidence that PMs will be of use at all.

Give me a like if you agree..or if I am wrong please explain as I stand to be corrected.
Click to expand...

I stack, because i believe the monetary system will collapse. I don't think (always a chance) that SHTF would ever happen in that situation. The point of accumulating PM's is that it is mobile, it is real currency. It allows me to relocate quickly and the ability to change my PM's to Fiat. Or in this case of a global collapse, i would change my PM's to the new currency that replaces the current. During monetary collapses and a new currency is introduced, the value of the previous fiat is worth next to nothing.

The only time I see SHTF actually happening is if some solar flare, some aliens or neutron star wipes out our ability as a nation to use any of the technologies we have grown to depend on. That's a problem!
 
r1lee said:
HotlineBling said:
Hi all, felt I needed to bring this up after a couple of conversations with various fellow stackers.
I must preface this by saying I am very pro-precious metals, as I subscribe to the idea that they are undervalued and agree with most on this forum that the SLV and GLD are subject to various forms of price rigging (substitute manipulation if you like) by big players. I do believe in PM historical use as (old money) currency as well as the value in various industrial applications. Like all trading markets I do believe there is scope to make money in PMs based on timing. Now here's what I don't agree with. I am always wondering why there are stackers that say they are in PMs in preparation for when SHTF. Do you really believe people will barter with you for your florins or round 50s in an economic collapse where resources for living is scarce?
I can see the argument that PMs have upside potential after the dust has settled. But I find it hard to believe PMs would actually do anything for you during an actual collapse. Personally I'd rather weapons and supplies and would not trade a single loaf of bread for silver or gold! Does anyone recall any real world valid examples of PMs shining as a beacon of light for SHTF scenarios at all? I'm not saying that there wouldn't be a shtf scenario in future but I genuinely believe the reasoning behind this theory of stacking is flawed without historical evidence that PMs will be of use at all.

Give me a like if you agree..or if I am wrong please explain as I stand to be corrected.
Click to expand...

I stack, because i believe the monetary system will collapse. I don't think (always a chance) that SHTF would ever happen in that situation. The point of accumulating PM's is that it is mobile, it is real currency. It allows me to relocate quickly and the ability to change my PM's to Fiat. Or in this case of a global collapse, i would change my PM's to the new currency that replaces the current. During monetary collapses and a new currency is introduced, the value of the previous fiat is worth next to nothing.

The only time I see SHTF actually happening is if some solar flare, some aliens or neutron star wipes out our ability as a nation to use any of the technologies we have grown to depend on. That's a problem!
Click to expand...

Thanks for participating with a response and sharing the reasons why you stack.However after analysis of your paragraphs, you didn't really address or answer the posed questions.
 
SHTF. After the looting, the killings, the outright wild wild west happening. People will somehow get back to normalcy. They will barter for items that are required and after that, what do you think the best monetary system to implement would be? Previous Gov't paper funny money that was saved? or Gold/Silver?

So you are definitely correct, it will be the last part of the "rebuilding process."
If you are really setting yourself up for SHTF scenario, then Gold and Silver would be the last part of the "preppers" preparedness guide. Water, Food, Clothing, Guns, Amo, Warmth (depending on where you live) and self defense. Gold and Silver comes after all that, you can never really have enough amo in that case.
 
Do you really believe people will barter with you for your florins or round 50s in an economic collapse where resources for living is scarce?

Sure do. The people of Germany will tell you that History proves that silver and gold were king in inflation of the the 1920's.

Today the people of Venezuela are experiencing the hyper inflation at around 700%...Ask the people in bakeries (the ones that are left) If they will swap a loaf of bread for an oz/2oz of silver..

IMO Derivatives are the biggest danger to a financial collapse.. I previously was of the opinion that the $20 trillion debt of the US would bring on a financial collapse but the way the system is set up (Exchange Stabilization Fund) I don't think that debt will be the black swan of the world's economy.

IMO you are indeed wise if you not only stack silver/gold but non perishable goods as well... Ask the people of Christmas Island what a roll of toilet paper is worth a month before the supply ship docks?

The worst case scenario is a world war...For that I believe that there is no answer...Maybe collect sticks and stones and prepare for WW4.

Regards Errol 43
 
errol43 said:
Do you really believe people will barter with you for your florins or round 50s in an economic collapse where resources for living is scarce?

Sure do. The people of Germany will tell you that History proves that silver and gold were king in inflation of the the 1920's.

Today the people of Venezuela are experiencing the hyper inflation at around 700%...Ask the people in bakeries (the ones that are left) If they will swap a loaf of bread for an oz/2oz of silver..

IMO Derivatives are the biggest danger to a financial collapse.. I previously was of the opinion that the $20 trillion debt of the US would bring on a financial collapse but the way the system is set up (Exchange Stabilization Fund) I don't think that debt will be the black swan of the world's economy.

IMO you are indeed wise if you not only stack silver/gold but non perishable goods as well... Ask the people of Christmas Island what a roll of toilet paper is worth a month before the supply ship docks?

The worst case scenario is a world war...For that I believe that there is no answer...Maybe collect sticks and stones and prepare for WW4.

Regards Errol 43
Click to expand...


i agree also that Gold and Silver will be easily bartered. My understanding from the OP is that SHTF scenario would be pretty much worldwide. Not isolated to a specific country, if isolated, then my original response would be sufficient. I could take my metals and leave and setup shop elsewhere.
 
AFAIK, bartering is the exchange of one item of value for another item of value, depending on each party's view on the two sides of the trade.

In my view, simplification of the monetary side of it is an advantage. A Perth Mint silver coin is clearly marked to what it is, 1oz or whatever of .999 silver. No need to argue the point about a round 50s that says "Fifty Cents" on it, and trying to convince the other party that it is worth 10 dollars.

The 1kg of rice etc is a known and obvious value, and the other side has to be the same. Paper money will be met with scorn!

JMO


OC
 
errol43 said:
Do you really believe people will barter with you for your florins or round 50s in an economic collapse where resources for living is scarce?

Sure do. The people of Germany will tell you that History proves that silver and gold were king in inflation of the the 1920's.
Click to expand...

Source?
 
In Germany in the months after WW2 the BIG barter item was cigarettes. Some SPAM from the US Army stores too.

I am trying to get things that are cheap, but will be in big demand.

Soap, ladies stuff, toothpaste, and of course Rice and SPAM!

The other side will be 1oz and fractionals of .999 silver.

OC
 
HotlineBling said:
Hi all, felt I needed to bring this up after a couple of conversations with various fellow stackers.
I must preface this by saying I am very pro-precious metals, as I subscribe to the idea that they are undervalued and agree with most on this forum that the SLV and GLD are subject to various forms of price rigging (substitute manipulation if you like) by big players. I do believe in PM historical use as (old money) currency as well as the value in various industrial applications. Like all trading markets I do believe there is scope to make money in PMs based on timing. Now here's what I don't agree with. I am always wondering why there are stackers that say they are in PMs in preparation for when SHTF. Do you really believe people will barter with you for your florins or round 50s in an economic collapse where resources for living is scarce?
I can see the argument that PMs have upside potential after the dust has settled. But I find it hard to believe PMs would actually do anything for you during an actual collapse. Personally I'd rather weapons and supplies and would not trade a single loaf of bread for silver or gold! Does anyone recall any real world valid examples of PMs shining as a beacon of light for SHTF scenarios at all? I'm not saying that there wouldn't be a shtf scenario in future but I genuinely believe the reasoning behind this theory of stacking is flawed without historical evidence that PMs will be of use at all.

Give me a like if you agree..or if I am wrong please explain as I stand to be corrected.
Click to expand...


There are different levels of SHTF scenarios. One is economic collapse where PMs are worth stacking. The worse ones are where guns, food and supplies are worth stacking. Stack all of those and one is prepared for all/most SHTF scenarios.
 
I asked a friend in Venezula, she laughed when I said if she had walked into a shop and tried to get barter for food with gold or silver.
 
It is not that a SHTF scenario will occur causing the trade of gold and silver to commence. Gold and silver as money was the norm for thousands of years. Holding gold and silver is normal. Holding paper is the extreme scenario.

African's will only trade with each other in gold in some areas, not even us dollars.
 
Pull up a chart of the Venezuelan Bolivar for the past 8 years. See how much it's gone down. If I had some savings in other assets I'd probably be doing all right. That is what buying precious metals has taught me.

'SHTF' has happened (and continues to happen) worldwide daily. Whether it's wars our taxes are paying for (so a few can profit tremendously on the theft of resouces while millions die), trade wars, and financial wars and taxpayer theft going on daily. The key, as I see it, is to be as self-sufficient as possible and use money less and less in everyday life (grow your own, don't buy. Make your own, fix your own, etc.). Basically use money less and less in everyday life. Because you know you are only feeding the crooks every time you do.
 
There are probably a dozen SHTF scenarios with a corresponding 11 solutions. Murphy's Law states that the 12th scenario will snooker you.

That scenario aside, the clue is not to worry about the SHTF. How? Be ready! I stack silver rather than bank deposits. I have 3 months of cash, food and water. I can stay holed up in my apartment for 3 months if need be. I also have a country escape option if need be. For that I always keep my car topped up with petrol.

I am not consumed by this preparation, it's what I do in background mode so it requires little effort to keep things at the ready. The last few weeks I've been eating my older non perishables and replacing them as I go. I keep a week's food and water, plus a change of clothes in the car as well.

Having done all that, SHTF is the least thing on my mind.

My only concern with SHTF is the bludgers. No sex, no food honey.
 
HotlineBling said:
Personally I'd rather weapons and supplies and would not trade a single loaf of bread for silver or gold!
Click to expand...

In a SHTF end of the world scenario, if you had no food and you and your kids(if you have any) were starving you would swap PM for food.In saying that personally I dont think shiz will get that bad.Not in my lifetime anyway.
 
fosinator said:
HotlineBling said:
Personally I'd rather weapons and supplies and would not trade a single loaf of bread for silver or gold!
Click to expand...

In a SHTF end of the world scenario, if you had no food and you and your kids(if you have any) were starving you would swap PM for food.In saying that personally I dont think shiz will get that bad.Not in my lifetime anyway.
Click to expand...

Wrong! (imho)

Unless you are 95yrs old I have - No Doubt - that things as we know them are going to change and change soon and it will get much worse as the time rolls on.

As Ainslie Bullion has said this in the past - it is better to be prepared "2 years" ahead of time rather than being just - One Day Too Late - and I am not only taking about P.M's.

There is so so many things that we take for granted today on a daily basis that even if a few of them went arse up you would be stuffed.

People today are time poor and pissed off and on their limit and barely coping as it is,so just one small bump in the road not to mention dealing with the peak traffic again today on the way home is more than enough to push some over the edge,but I am not talking about you :D

People's quality of life today is much poorer than even a few years ago not to mention our as I said yesterday our Gold Medal winning personal world debt - but no pressure right :lol:

We think that we are in charge of our destiny,you are kidding yourself.

Good luck,you are going to need it.

:cool:

P.S. make no mistake about it,this world as we know it is hanging on by a thread.
 
House said:
errol43 said:
Do you really believe people will barter with you for your florins or round 50s in an economic collapse where resources for living is scarce?

Sure do. The people of Germany will tell you that History proves that silver and gold were king in inflation of the the 1920's.
Click to expand...

Source?
Click to expand...

I've been looking everywhere in agreement with the original suggestion, but I cannot find one...
 
Topherclaus said:
House said:
errol43 said:
Do you really believe people will barter with you for your florins or round 50s in an economic collapse where resources for living is scarce?

Sure do. The people of Germany will tell you that History proves that silver and gold were king in inflation of the the 1920's.
Click to expand...

Source?
Click to expand...

I've been looking everywhere in agreement with the original suggestion, but I cannot find one...
Click to expand...

Probably won't either. The majority traded their crappy inflated currency for actual useful stuff like food, clothing, tools etc.
 
Old Codger said:
I am expecting all these barter transaction to be on the 'black'.

OC
Click to expand...

The thing is we are talking about day to day life. She isn't a stacker so she doesn't know much about black market. Furthermore she said even if she had US dollars somethings are impossible to get.

The problem is for people (like my friend) when selling gold/Silver she would demand US Dollars in exchange, the dealers (legit or blackmarket) will charge a premium for US dollars. Much like if one wanted to sell a luxury car the if the seller wants us dollars, they would have to accept much lower price.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top