Setting up a SMSF w/Corporate Trustee 101

Yippe-Ki-Ya said:
hiho said:
Yippe-Ki-Ya said:
I doubt this can be true. If your SMSF owns land that's got nothing to do with land owned in your private name.
Being a trustee for a trust is similar to being a director of a company - whatever the trust/company owns is not seen as being owned in the private name of the trustee/director.
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without getting too technical, FK's
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what do you mean? not too good with the abbreviations mate :)
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__c_ knows
 
SilverSanchez said:
Im just in the tail end of setting up my SMSF - we used a Corperate trustee - 4 members

We are setting up a vault account with guardian in melbourne for storage of the physical

Was wondering if there are any other options for storage - already checked out ABC and their insurance costs are way to high (because they are per ounce of gold and kg of silver, whereas Guardian is a flat rate according to insurance gross value needs) but i suppose if gold and silver skyrocket ABC will eventually be cheaper (unless they raise their per ounce/kg rate for insurance)

anyone else have any insights into the storage requirements and insurance for physical?

Our ongoing costs are $2000 per annum (for ATO fees, audit, taxes etc) + storage ($300 per annum)and insurance costs (about $450 per annum) = $2750 per annum (or $690 per member)
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Hi SS if you send me a private message I'd be happy to tell your our preferred storage. I think you also wanted to know about the next Melbourne SMSF Trustees interest group that will occur the first Tuesday in December.

Kind Regards
non recourse
 
A bit off topic but can you add people to a SMSF?? e.g offspring of working age rather than them pay super to an industry fund they pay into their own account under the trustee.
 
Ikikyabut said:
A bit off topic but can you add people to a SMSF?? e.g offspring of working age rather than them pay super to an industry fund they pay into their own account under the trustee.
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The maximum number of related people in a super fund is 4. With regards to transfering offspring contributions from the industry fund across into your SMSF they will need to be added as directors of the SMSF corporate Trusteeship or be individual trustees if no corporate trustee.

You will also have to check that they can transfer their contributions out of the industry fund because if the unions where you work have an enterprise bargining agreement they may have a clause that compels you to make a Claytons choice, either Union industry fund A or union industry B. If that is the case they often require you to keep a minimum $5,000 in your industry fund anything more you can transfer to your SMSF. The reason they do this is a con they talk about the "cheap Life insurance". In fact its a nice little kick back earner to the union Trustees of your industry fund. As the industry advert says they look after members.... especially union members who take nice fat fees for being directors of the corporate Trustee of the industry fund.

The hard labour mob regularly bend their members over for the "common good":lol:
 
Can anyone recommend an account with CBA I have a lot with them so it makes sense. The one offered has fees of $10 month minimum amount $10K seems a bit off to me if anyone has one they are using would be keen to hear about it. I only need to transfer money with likes of PM and a Trading Account etc... Some rarities and maybe property ?

I have 2 x trustee's and then the SMSF

Thanks

Edit- Ended up with a Cash Investment Account @ $5 per month with Cheque Book and Internet access. 5 free transactions a month so that is enough for me. So that was pretty easy. Took in the SMSF Information and that was it easy about 40 mins more due to the girl being new but I left with an account so I am happy yah I now have a SMSF too.
 
Hiho - thankyou for this post.

My one question is how are you proposing to update your trust deed for changes in super law as they happen in future?
 
Ausecon said:
Hiho - thankyou for this post.

My one question is how are you proposing to update your trust deed for changes in super law as they happen in future?
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I will go to cleardocs and pay for the updates I guess or wait for the auditor to notify me of my neglect and offer remedy
 
OK so I've been looking at a number of sites regarding registering a company and understand that to qualify as a special purpose company the company's constitution needs to have certain provisions.

I've been thinking however of the situation where a company acts not only as a trustee for SMSF but also conducts trading/business in it's own right - ie it has dual functions. It is not a special purpose company.

Does anyone know if the standard shelf companies on offer permit this or would the constitution need to be amended to permit the additional activity of acting as trustee of a SMSF ?

I have seen one constitution which permit company to act as trustee (in very broad terms) - does it need to mention the SMSF specifically?
 
XB said:
OK so I've been looking at a number of sites regarding registering a company and understand that to qualify as a special purpose company the company's constitution needs to have certain provisions.

I've been thinking however of the situation where a company acts not only as a trustee for SMSF but also conducts trading/business in it's own right - ie it has dual functions. It is not a special purpose company.

Does anyone know if the standard shelf companies on offer permit this or would the constitution need to be amended to permit the additional activity of acting as trustee of a SMSF ?

I have seen one constitution which permit company to act as trustee (in very broad terms) - does it need to mention the SMSF specifically?
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Good questions. My take for your last question is it does not need to mention the SMSF specifically in the constitution if it is in broad terms.

With regard to the question of a company acting as a trustee for the SMSF but also conducting a trading/business in tis own right..... We have just set up an ASIC approved company that will act as our Trustee only for the SMSF because we had another company that acted as trustee and it was also trustee for our family trust that controls a number of businesses.

For example the super funds bullion is held in a bank vault in the name of the company trustee. If one of our businesses failed...god forbid our super assets could have been entangled and if you are fighting a 900 pound gorilla, i.e. creditors in bankrupcy ... you want to have a number of fire walls in place.

Its not about being a smart ass and evading your responsibilities. Its more about not putting all your eggs in one basket. As trustee of your SMSF you really do need to attend some courses on asset protection and the use of trusts.

People don't plan to fail but often they do fail because they don't plan.

Kind Regards
non recourse
 
Thanks recourse

Wasn't a case of trying to skimp out on security or not foreseeing the possibility of a perception of enmeshing assets and the mess that could create etc

The business I am thinking of hasn't even started yet - was more a case of forward planning in case I do go ahead with what would be a very small (5-10K pa) thing - probably more of a "hobby" than fully fledged business, but that if it started might be good to have separate from my normal day-to-day personal stuff.

I take your points about keeping the trading and assets of your various businesses and trusts separate - in your circumstances it would appear a wise and prudent measure .... for me however as a simple (very simple some would say lol :) ) PAYG taxpayer, the possibility of having a separate trading entity was/is worth exploring - and seeing whether it was possible to utilise one company to do that and act as trustee of a SMSF was also worth exploring.
 
Hi XB, Just set up a SMSF went through esuperfund, brilliant, did everything and made it so easy. did not set up a corporate fund as it is only myself and my wife so did not feel the need. Keep it simple... :)
I have separate accounts with any of the bullion dealers I buy from. I have one in the my name (personal) and one in my Super Fund name. Keeps everything separate and easy.
 
Hi DBP - yea that's what I was going to do and since it's just me was going to get my brother as the second trustee, then thought some more and started investigating whether a company would be better for me .... and well one thing led to another.

No decision yet made on company vs individual trustees - still investigating and considering options....
 
What I came up with was if it was just you go company, only needs one person. If it is you and your wife/family individual trustee.
I figure if I die it all goes to my wife and kids end of game. We are not going to have trustees coming and going, it's a one off thing for my Super only.

When I looked at the pros and cons for each the individual trustee appeared to be best for what I was doing.

If I ever come into a ridiculous amount of money I will set up a company trust to look after the family assets. Something to be handed over to each generation to
look after for themselves and their kids.
 
Dirtbikepilot said:
What I came up with was if it was just you go company, only needs one person. If it is you and your wife/family individual trustee.
I figure if I die it all goes to my wife and kids end of game. We are not going to have trustees coming and going, it's a one off thing for my Super only.

When I looked at the pros and cons for each the individual trustee appeared to be best for what I was doing.

If I ever come into a ridiculous amount of money I will set up a company trust to look after the family assets. Something to be handed over to each generation to
look after for themselves and their kids.
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This is the common garden variety approach that most financial planners/accountants give when advising Mums and Dads to set up an SMSF. What you don't know that don't know is what causes a black swan event. ASIC has cheaper option on ongoing annual costs for trustee companies that deal soley with an SMSF. Having just switched from another corporate trustee that I have to the cheaper ASIC one the cost of setting it up was $685.

The problems with an individual acting as trustee is numerous where there is a mum and Dad situation and one dies plus also individual liability risk that you do not face with a Pty Ltd Trustee.

70% of all SMSF's are individual rather than corporate Trustees. In the last 5 years 98% of new SMSF's being set up are going the individual trustee path. As someone who has had an SMSF since 1993/94 and have spent a considerable amount of time building our SMSF to where it is.... I just shake my head with some of the so called "investment advice" given out.

Kind Regards
non recourse
 
if you plan on investing in real estate you most certainly need a corporate trustee to protect the funds assets against a shithouse tenant, you need a Bare trust in this instance to borrow any monies
 
Roswell Crash Survivor said:
Has anyone checked out this 'Superannuation Warehouse'?

www.superannuationwarehouse.com.au

My read is that its going to be less accommodating than Esuperfund, as it'd rather railroads you towards UBank and a BellDirect share trading account.
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thats exactly what ESuper does, go independant as I have outlined in this thread
 
My first post and I would appreciate if someone could answer me correctly.

I have an Esuperfund, but I want to get out as they won`t let me buy overseas property.

As the fund is set up is it just a simple task of changing auditor, getting my own accountant, or using bglcorp software?

Please tell me I don`t have to go through the whole process I went through with Esuperfund.

Cheers
 
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