selling silver is a major mistake

silvercomments

New Member
Don't sell your silver. Here I want to give you some reasons.

First reason for the price increase is - as we all know - the obvious - the fiscal cliff and the printing press.
Currently the FED is somewhat halting the print - because it's been like 10 months or so without the QE.
Did it stop the money flowing into the economy? NO. Let's look at it:
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CURRENCY?cid=25
As you can see - the amount of paper in peoples' pockets keeps raising exponentially.

Second reason is the amount of silver available for investment out there.
Let's just consider the current production level and the surplus left for investors every year.
I think there is approximately 200 millions of ounces of silver available per year to investors.
The rest is consumed by industry. So it makes 2 billions of ounces available within next 10 years.
It's nothing. If people panic and start converting a fraction of their wealth into silver - then you know what happens.

Another reason is technical.
I think we are witnessing some sort of accumulation in silver.
Here you can see amounts cleared through LBMA:
http://www.lbma.org.uk/pages/index.cfm?page_id=50&title=clearing_-_statistical_table
Now this is interesting, because it was long thought the volumes there are somewhat 3x higher than the given number.
So just calculate 3x the number to get the physical volume and you can see something is happening there.
Volumes are dropping. Price not falling. Accumulation.

Another reason - leverage.
Without going into details - there are bullion banks out there that are significantly leveraged.
Nobody knows how much, but it seems 20x is reasonable estimation in my opinion.
So once we realize the leverage - there may be less silver out there to support all claims should any occur in the future.
Now shouldn't we start asking whether there will be claims like that?
I think we need to better understand the economy in order to answer that.
I don't believe China will keep building empty cities and I don't believe we will see continued growth out there.
Reasons are simple. We are all very rich. Consider just few decades back - when an average family had just acquired a TV.
Today we all have TVs, PCs, laptops, cars, washing machines, homes, condos and more stereo equipment than ever before.
The market is overloaded with crap and we trash stuff like we had no conscious.
People don't need more stuff. This is why the economy is slowing. The activity out there is slowing down over long term.
FED can print all they want - but the resulting money stream will only pump up the food rather than giving us an opportunity to buy another car.
There will be no more jobs out there as we don't need to produce more stuff.
Right now China is building reserves of coal, copper, zinc, lead, steel and whatever you can think of.
There are mountains of copper out there actually. What can possibly happen to the prices of unwanted stuff?
Do you really think a slowdown will cause copper to increase in prices?

So here we arrive at another reason to buy silver - a copper price crash.
The net profit margin of a major copper producer - FCX - is only 9%.
If copper price falls down to a long term trend-line which is at ~$1.7 - then most of the copper producers will lose money and will limit their output.
All we need is -10% to start seeing that. We are at $3.5 per pound and we could easily see $2.8 which is sufficient to close a chunk of world silver output.
The same applies to lead and zinc. Technically they all seem to want to fall down. We just need more time to get there.
No level of manipulation will keep prices of lead, zinc and copper up in the air during slowdown.
If you believe in slow down - those will crash.

All we need to believe is that printed money don't pump up all sectors.
This is why we see both inflation and deflation simultaneously.
Bottom line - a global slowdown will cut off significant amount of silver output.

But there is one more reason to buy silver - the coming bailout and interest rates derivatives.
Most people don't even think about possible consequences of interest raise change.
Most of us think - the low interest rates can go on forever. WRONG.

There is one fundamental flaw with Keynesians - they think they can stimulate the economy and keep the banking world going.
But in real life we know cycles are more powerful than humans. Nothing can stop the long cycle.
As I said above - we are too rich - so the cycle will eventually end and that will shrink the governments.
Tax collections will drop and credit activity will go down inevitably.
That is when the central banks will keep printing to keep the governments going and that will cause the interest rates to go up.
It will start when some banks will lose their shirts on the interest derivatives - they will need a bailout and that will require trillions of dollars within a month or so.
This will break the financial system and silver will go up crazy.
At the end of all this - there will be bank runs and people will take the money out of banks, because the money will lose value faster than you can think of.
People will want to convert ALL their paper money to something safe. It is NOT HAPPENING right now. But it will happen. Just wait.
 
"Reasons are simple. We are all very rich. Consider just few decades back - when an average family had just acquired a TV.
Today we all have TVs, PCs, laptops, cars, washing machines, homes, condos and more stereo equipment than ever before.
The market is overloaded with crap and we trash stuff like we had no conscious.
People don't need more stuff. This is why the economy is slowing. The activity out there is slowing down over long term."

In the West,yes,but there are a lot of poor people in China,India,etc,who would love that stuff(and better food).
But the concept is important (don't need more stuff) and will have an effect in the West.How many TV's do we need in the house?
 
Peter said:
there are a lot of poor people in China,India

If that was the case - we wouldn't be talking about growth in China in range of 3% annually and we wouldn't be talking about empty cities out there.
They even built empty cities in Africa. Can you imagine that? Read about Chinese investments in Angola - that stuff gets crazier every year.

As I said - gold and silver are ultimate money - and the hard times are coming.
In the bad side of a cycle cash is THE king. If cash is being printed - all that's left are gold and silver.
That's that simple.
 
silvercomments said:
Peter said:
there are a lot of poor people in China,India

If that was the case - we wouldn't be talking about growth in China in range of 3% annually and we wouldn't be talking about empty cities out there.
They even built empty cities in Africa. Can you imagine that? Read about Chinese investments in Angola - that stuff gets crazier every year.

As I said - gold and silver are ultimate money - and the hard times are coming.
In the bad side of a cycle cash is THE king. If cash is being printed - all that's left are gold and silver.
That's that simple.
China has been growing upwards of 10%/quarter.Last weeks release for the June Quarter was just over 7%.

Maybe they already know the number to get a quarterly GDP figure released that quick?
 
Peter said:
"Reasons are simple. We are all very rich. Consider just few decades back - when an average family had just acquired a TV.
Today we all have TVs, PCs, laptops, cars, washing machines, homes, condos and more stereo equipment than ever before.
The market is overloaded with crap and we trash stuff like we had no conscious.
People don't need more stuff. This is why the economy is slowing. The activity out there is slowing down over long term."

In the West,yes,but there are a lot of poor people in China,India,etc,who would love that stuff(and better food).
But the concept is important (don't need more stuff) and will have an effect in the West.How many TV's do we need in the house?

Hi Peter,

the 2000's brought cheap fast moving consumer goods such as laptops and tvs as labour improved and manufacturing moved to countries with minimal government legislation and low labour costs driving prices down and was then able to relocate to an even better corporate outlook for profit maximisation (cheaper prices to us)..

So while its hard to argue you are correct those items are now far more affordable, my question to you is did we really get richer..

Used to be the man worked (one income).. and the average income could purchase the average house in 7 years (in the 50's)

Nowdays a house is unobtainable to most, so i draw the conclusion we are richer not poorer.

Although we have the "little things" , property ownership status is something me and medievil serf's have in common.

for this way can squarely blame creeping incrementalist monetary expansion

1for1
 
Yeh,your right,houses are outrageously expensive.And they are a necessity.
Because they were allowed to become the object of gambling.Borrow money,buy a house,it goes up a lot,borrow on that,buy another house,etc.Nothing is produced,but money is made.Gambling.And all that will soon collapse,with terrible consequences for Australia.

But it also a fact that even if your on the dole in Australia,your in the top 10% of income earners in the world.We are really rich.And we complain all the time,and we are unhappy and we want more,more and more.
 
Peter said:
Yeh,your right,houses are outrageously expensive.And they are a necessity.
Because they were allowed to become the object of gambling.Borrow money,buy a house,it goes up a lot,borrow on that,buy another house,etc.Nothing is produced,but money is made.Gambling.And all that will soon collapse,with terrible consequences for Australia.

But it also a fact that even if your on the dole in Australia,your in the top 10% of income earners in the world.We are really rich.And we complain all the time,and we are unhappy and we want more,more and more.

the more we have, the more we got to lose ? :P

with one house, you can buy 9 more and with one city, you can build nine more empty cities :lol: the power to credit illusion
 
Peter said:
Yeh,your right,houses are outrageously expensive.And they are a necessity.
Because they were allowed to become the object of gambling.Borrow money,buy a house,it goes up a lot,borrow on that,buy another house,etc.Nothing is produced,but money is made.Gambling.And all that will soon collapse,with terrible consequences for Australia.

But it also a fact that even if your on the dole in Australia,your in the top 10% of income earners in the world.We are really rich.And we complain all the time,and we are unhappy and we want more,more and more.


I agree totally with you here, i said virtually the same thing not long ago about how unhappy everyone seems yet we all seem to have ample money.. in my case im kinda putting life on hold until i have established enough capital to buy a house.. and the realisation that is a mighty difficult task gets to me.

I dont want the bank to own 80% of my house and i dont think a house right now is smart (although a savvy investor can still do well like in all specialist markets).

RE: dont sell silver.. i think its smart to buy and silver but agree that in aggregate we dont want to be reducing our total ounces.. i think if you can buy and sell at profits in the short term why the heck not? Dosent change the fact i put most my cash into precious metals.. to me these are different things but i like numismatics which arent primarily price-dependant on spot so buying and selling IS the investment (like most fine art and scarce commodity investments)

cheers mate.
 
Peter said:
Yeh,your right,houses are outrageously expensive.And they are a necessity.
Because they were allowed to become the object of gambling.Borrow money,buy a house,it goes up a lot,borrow on that,buy another house,etc.Nothing is produced,but money is made.Gambling.And all that will soon collapse,with terrible consequences for Australia.

But it also a fact that even if your on the dole in Australia,your in the top 10% of income earners in the world.We are really rich.And we complain all the time,and we are unhappy and we want more,more and more.
YES WE ARE ALL RICH ,WE ARE IN THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.WE HAVE MULTIPLE TV'S, CARS, WE EAT OUT,WE DRINK,WE GAMBLE,WE PLAY SPORTS AND HAVE HOLIDAYS.WE BUY SILVER.99% OF YHE WORLD POPULATION CAN'T AFFORD SILVER.IS THAT WHY IT,S NOT GOING ANYWHERE PRICE WISE........BUT I LOVE HOLDING IT
 
longtime silver believer said:
Peter said:
Yeh,your right,houses are outrageously expensive.And they are a necessity.
Because they were allowed to become the object of gambling.Borrow money,buy a house,it goes up a lot,borrow on that,buy another house,etc.Nothing is produced,but money is made.Gambling.And all that will soon collapse,with terrible consequences for Australia.

But it also a fact that even if your on the dole in Australia,your in the top 10% of income earners in the world.We are really rich.And we complain all the time,and we are unhappy and we want more,more and more.
YES WE ARE ALL RICH ,WE ARE IN THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.WE HAVE MULTIPLE TV'S, CARS, WE EAT OUT,WE DRINK,WE GAMBLE,WE PLAY SPORTS AND HAVE HOLIDAYS.WE BUY SILVER.99% OF YHE WORLD POPULATION CAN'T AFFORD SILVER.IS THAT WHY IT,S NOT GOING ANYWHERE PRICE WISE........BUT I LOVE HOLDING IT
Why oh why can not we afford keyboards with working caps lock keys then?!?!
 
silvercomments, whilst I appreciate the sentiment the fact is those who need convincing to hold their silver probably shouldn't be holding it in the first place.

I say let people make up their own minds. Past experience in SS discussions has proven to me many times it's just not worth the hassle of trying to educate people mate.

Refer them to the sticky and move on IMHO.
 
auspm said:
silvercomments, [...] Past experience in SS discussions has proven to me many times it's just not worth the hassle of trying to educate people mate.

Refer them to the sticky and move on IMHO.


I wanted to present a fresh look at these issues, because I'm bored to death by folks endlessly banging on the same 'whether the bottom is here or near' topics.
 
auspm said:
silvercomments, whilst I appreciate the sentiment the fact is those who need convincing to hold their silver probably shouldn't be holding it in the first place.

I say let people make up their own minds. Past experience in SS discussions has proven to me many times it's just not worth the hassle of trying to educate people mate.

Refer them to the sticky and move on IMHO.
Can you tell Non Recourse that?

Kind Regards
 
Don't sell your silver.

I bought $24K of silver in 2010 and sold it all in 2011-12 for $30K. If a 25% return in 18 months is a major mistake then I hope to keep making them.

I do however have a cunning plan to buy more silver if it keeps falling.

price $/kg buy kg cost $K
700 5 3.5
500 15 7.5
300 45 13.5
100 135 13.5

And if silver instead goes to the moon from here, then good luck to everyone but don't be a clueless redneck still riding the rocket as it crashes to earth.
 
hennypenny said:
I bought $24K of silver in 2010 and sold it all in 2011-12 for $30K. If a 25% return in 18 months is a major mistake then I hope to keep making them.

Was that skill or luck?
 
Jrandom: Was that skill or luck?

It was the luck to be born skilful.

And I did something that many people cannot. I accepted I'd missed the $50 top and settled for a far smaller profit. I would also have taken a loss to get out (and have done this many times share trading).

I think the key thing to watch is how silver responds to stock market moves. If the stock market falls and silver rises it piques my interest. If however silver falls as stock falls, and this is what I usually see, then you're all doomed, doomed, doomed I say.
 
hennypenny - good for ya taking profit - something I'm yet to learn...I do though warn the dreadful day will come the cupboards are bare and the SHTF. You'll be lucky to buy an oz of copper without waiting a few hours at the dealers.

So why aren't you day trading or futures market? you can pick the move then why bother with physical? seems pretty backward approach?
 
Kawa said:
auspm said:
I say let people make up their own minds. Past experience in SS discussions has proven to me many times it's just not worth the hassle of trying to educate people mate.

Refer them to the sticky and move on IMHO.
Can you tell Non Recourse that?

Kind Regards

I resemble that remark:lol:

Kind Regards
non recourse
 
Jrandom said:
hennypenny said:
I bought $24K of silver in 2010 and sold it all in 2011-12 for $30K. If a 25% return in 18 months is a major mistake then I hope to keep making them.

Was that skill or luck?

It doesn't take skill it takes self discipline.

Nobody can pick the absolute top or bottom but it's really not hard to judge when you should be looking to enter the market and when you should be looking to get out.

When the graph was going verticle and people were falling over themselves to buy that's the time to get out. If you've made good return on your investment and things are looking overheated in the market why not take some money off the table.

Why don't people do it? Greed. Fear of missing out on more gains.

The hardest part of investing is having the self discipline to get out while things are still booming. Goes for all asset classes.

The second hardest thing is re-entering the market when everyone else is running scared.

C
 
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