"Sell your gold now" - $250 gold by 2020 (it is a ccy tied to the Fed)

SpacePete

Well-Known Member
Silver Stacker
"If you are long gold in any form, physical, ETF or equities you should sell them now."

This article on SeekingAlpha is one of the most contrarian and bearish I have seen. His key idea is that gold is a currency not a commodity, and as such its long term price movements are directly correlated to US Federal Reserve monetary policy.

(And to head off "SilverPete is an idiot" responses, I am not endorsing this position.)

Gold Is In A Long-Term Downtrend Driven By Fed Monetary Policy

Summary

* Gold is in a long-term downtrend. By 2020 Gold prices might drop as low as $250.

* Long-Term gold prices are clearly driven by Fed monetary policy.

* In the last 50 years, there have been 3 great Fed policy re-alignments.

* The 4th great Fed policy re-alignment is already here.

Gold has a long way left to fall. If you are long gold in any form, you should sell it.

GOLD IS IN A LONG TERM DOWNTREND DRIVEN BY FED POLICY

Gold just finished the fourth year of what I believe will be a ten year bear market. By the year 2020 or so gold has a very good chance of revisiting its 2001 low of $250 dollars. Over the next twelve months gold might go down to $850 or so, maybe lower. If you still hold physical gold outright, gold ETF's or gold mining stocks take advantage of this rally and sell.

[snip charts]
...

GOLD IS A CURRENCY

Gold is a currency not a commodity. The long term macro economic trends in gold prices are determined by monetary policy at the US central bank in much the same way as the US dollar. The history of gold over the last 50 years can be described in 3 great trends driven by 3 great changes in fed policy.

The fed kept with an easy money policy from the mid 1960's despite strong signals of declining dollar demand and increasing supply. The Vietnam War, Watergate, rising oil prices and the many Nixon economic missteps such as wage a price controls drove an ever worsening loss of confidence in the dollar. When Nixon abandoned the dollar's link to gold, gold prices exploded for the entire decade rising to $850 per ounce by 1980.

Enter the legendary Paul Volcker. The fed chairman embarked on a very tight monetary policy, 180 degrees the opposite of the previous 15 years, in order to stamp out inflation. Gold prices fell sharply from their highs. The second chart shows that in constant dollars gold prices fell for more than 20 years. Without adjusting prices to constant dollars from 1982 to 1993 gold traded in a range from $250 to $500. From 1993 to 2002 that range was even narrower, $250 to $400.

The great gold rally of the Ought's and indeed the entire commodity super-cycle of that time period can be explained by the third 180 degree monetary policy change at the US Federal Reserve in the last 50 years. By this time Alan Greenspan was the Fed Chair. In 2001 he abruptly reversed monetary policy. The Fed lowered rates from 6.5% to 1.75% in 2001 showing a new, easy money stance. Once again gold prices responded and reversed course. In April of 2001 gold re-tested its 1999 low of $253 and never looked back. The gold rally began in earnest in 2002 when prices crested $300 per ounce. Gold prices rallied for a decade.

In 2009 there was a new Fed chairman. The financial crisis and Great Recession of 2009-2012 was brought on in large part by the bursting of the bubble in global housing markets. Ironically the crisis whose roots lay in a decade of easy money policy at the Fed was met with ultra easy dollar policy as the solution. Trillions were injected into the global economy, the fed dropped rates to zero and embarked upon multiple rounds of quantitative easing. With global markets fearing hyperinflation, a dollar collapse and/or a euro collapse gold prices continued to rally strongly and indeed went parabolic in August and September of 2011.

When it became clear that none of the great fears were going to come to pass: the world was not ending, the dollar was not collapsing, the Euro zone and Euro currency union was not breaking up and hyper inflation was nowhere to be seen gold prices began to ease.

ANOTHER MAJOR FED POLICY CHANGE IS ALREADY HERE

The tapering off and end of all global QE programs over the 2013- 2014 time period is already a de facto tightening of monetary policy. The Fed has telegraphed a rise in interest rates for over 12 months now. They are arguing over when exactly it will happen, but it will happen. The ten year cycle of easy and ultra easy money has ended. The fed chairman and governors will argue over how tight money policy should be, but not over whether or not it should be tighter. The history of gold as shown in the two charts herein shows that we are in an extended bear market for gold. There won't be a Volcker like squeeze on monetary policy. Yellen and the other governors are being ultra cautious. Expect a long, slow careful tightening of monetary policy. Expect a long, slow painful grind lower in gold prices with plenty of countertrend bear traps along the way. Like now for instance.

WHAT ABOUT THE GOLD BUG ARGUMENTS?

[snip]

Gold is a currency. Like the US Dollar its long term price movements are directly correlated to US Federal Reserve monetary policy. There have been three great overarching Fed monetary policy environments in the last 50 years and correspondingly there have been 3 great trends in gold prices. The depth of the great recession has made the Fed ultra careful, but nonetheless a new era of tighter US Fed monetary policy is upon us. Gold at $1200 is well below its high from 4 years ago, but it is still closer to the top than its ultimate bottom. If you are long gold in any form, physical, ETF or equities you should sell them now.

Full article: http://seekingalpha.com/article/358...downtrend-driven-by-fed-monetary-policy?ifp=0
 
Depends on the real interest rate. Rates rose during the seventies. Just not fast enough to get ahead of inflation. Could well happen again.
 
Silverthorn said:
Depends on the real interest rate. Rates rose during the seventies. Just not fast enough to get ahead of inflation. Could well happen again.

But surely not enough to cause gold to drop by such a degree in only 5 years?

With each major price fall, other buyers (e.g. China) may load up and this would minimize any falls.
 
SilverPete said:
Silverthorn said:
Depends on the real interest rate. Rates rose during the seventies. Just not fast enough to get ahead of inflation. Could well happen again.

But surely not enough to cause gold to drop by such a degree in only 5 years?

With each major price fall, other buyers (e.g. China) may load up and this would minimize any falls.

I was talking about the seventies. I still think all the money printing will cause inflation and they won't get ahead of it just like the seventies.

Can't see another Volker and Reagen coming along anytime soon.
 
6. I ask, where and in what form should we hold all of these precious dollars? If Dent is correct and the system collapses won't that mean banks, brokers and anything else in the financial field will fold? Wouldn't your precious dollars be lost? Remember, we now even have "bail in" legislation stating your "deposit" is no longer a deposit you are an unsecured creditor.

Let me finish by saying "the dollar" is no longer your grandfather's dollar. Nixon took us off the gold standard because we did not have enough ounces of gold to exchange for the amount of dollars we over issued to THAT POINT! Now, we may have no gold at all left and have issued the money supply 50 fold from the point we admitted gold was more precious than dollars!

By telling you gold will be the very worst investment, Harry Dent is putting doubt into current and potential owner's minds at THE very point in time that your "insurance" (gold) is going to be needed. You the reader must make a decision for yourself, a very important one. You can either believe Harry Dent, with his made up history and very flawed core logic, or you can dig for truth and follow your own logic to the very end of the question. I believe if you do this, you will discover gold is real money and real money is truth!

www.jsmineset.com/2015/10/17/harry-dent-is-delusional/
 
Well Billy-Joe called the top to the Metals and the low to the Zimbabwe currency and who has probably made 100x profit by now is saying Silver to go to $1 an ounce and Gold to go to $45-$50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6aU45kUni4

Maybe there is a lot of satire to his videos however I wish right now I made 100 fold profit on anything atm
 
Sure the FED can definitely try to take again the interest rate to 20%... Popcorn is ready, I really want to see this. But it won't be done under Yellen, she got a stroke just with the simple idea of a 0.25% increase.
 
I will be buying more definitely not selling, spreading line of defenses. I learned from the past of my USD and never again in the future. :)
 
Ending of QE programs? Like 50B a month in Europe? Like expanded QE in Japan and loosening of margin lending in China? Forcast lower rates here too. Throw in the fact that gold production drops maybe 80%+ at $400, much less $250, in an enviroment of huge eastern consumption and I simply don't see it. I suppose in an almost unimaginable deflationary enviroment it's plausible, but then you're talking a calamitous currency situation and the value of an ounce of gold to liters of fuel or ounces to an average family home shouldn't change much.

He's essentially describing a world without financial strife. One without geopolitical risk and turmoil. One where the US dollar maintains or even expands it's role as a reserve currency. Do these sound like trends we're seeing and can expect over the next 4 years?

It's also world with no new gold exploitation projects, which is good since the number of economically accessible underground ounces is shrinking fast.

I don't believe in gold at $25,000 in constant 2015 dollars just like I don't believe in gold at $250 in 2015 dollars.
 
JNS said:
I will be buying more definitely not selling, spreading line of defenses. I learned from the past of my USD and never again in the future. :)
Exactly my thinking with gold, but due to the AUD in my case. I buy the occasional sovereign after another stacker introduced me to them.
 
Another 16 tons into China last month. They're not expecting $250 an ounce I'd reckon.
 
I believe that the fed won't raise interest rates because people are still in savings mode. Credit cards are much easier in terms of liquidity to the consumer in buying items vs. Hard cash. A recent survey concluded that the average American (with an average home of $245K) doesn't have more than three months worth of emergency money on hand to cover expenses. If we were in the years 1998-2005, then Americans wernt saving at that point in time because jobs were plentiful and everyone was making money! Heck, even Alan Greenspan warned people about "exuberant spending" as he put it. Even he saw the writing on the wall and stepped down to let Bernanke manage it because he knew exactly what he would do. Both of those guys are night and day in terms of fiscal policy. Janet Yellen won't have much success because those jobs numbers are actually part time Jobs, not full time which arent even American workers anyways!. Add to the fact that big corporations are still devouring the mom and pop shops while putting them out of business does not help the situation one bit. Americans have to spend money before interest rates rise. The stock market is already prepared for the rise, and really doesn't even think that the fed will raise the rates, at least not anytime soon. If the stock market did end up taking a nosedive, then that .25% would be quickly retracted. Finally, don't let the stock market fool you when it goes higher. That isn't middle class or lower class money going into it (because they can't save because everything is getting pricier), yet it is the 1% and the "elite" class of individuals.
 
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