Security feature and Four 9999's - PERTH MINT

fishtaco said:
Silverpv said:
Milkspots are like the zombie apocalypse to coins... They are infecting all of the silver mints.. I don't think anything with spots are .9999 maybe 3 nines, but there's a contamination going around... I would love to buy more but seeing how often the milkspots come up and spreading, I might just stick with low premium. High premiums aren't worth it for the uncertainty. Otherwise i like the new release and will pick up a tube or five, but if quality goes down, I expect premium/price to go down as well...
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RCM mint coins are .9999 and they are the worst for milk spotting I thought? I havnt seen any spotting on my ase,s or other perth mint coins other than my spiders
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Yes the RCM "bullion" coins are .9999 and have milk spotting, it has nothing to do with the purity but everything to do with the processing of the blanks. So if the PM keeps processing their blanks the same way they have been then milk spotting will continue. They know how to fix the problem as does the RCM , but it would raise the premiums considerably to process the blanks properly to eliminate the milk spotting.


The milk spotting only affects the RCM "bullion" coins and not their Numismatic more expensive coins, so ya they know how to fix the problem. But would people pay $10 over spot for a silver maple leaf bullion coin? $10 is just a guess, I have no idea how they process the Numismatic coin blanks but how ever they are doing it , there are no milk spots.
 
Northerncoins said:
fishtaco said:
Silverpv said:
Milkspots are like the zombie apocalypse to coins... They are infecting all of the silver mints.. I don't think anything with spots are .9999 maybe 3 nines, but there's a contamination going around... I would love to buy more but seeing how often the milkspots come up and spreading, I might just stick with low premium. High premiums aren't worth it for the uncertainty. Otherwise i like the new release and will pick up a tube or five, but if quality goes down, I expect premium/price to go down as well...
Click to expand...

RCM mint coins are .9999 and they are the worst for milk spotting I thought? I havnt seen any spotting on my ase,s or other perth mint coins other than my spiders
Click to expand...

Yes the RCM "bullion" coins are .9999 and have milk spotting, it has nothing to do with the purity but everything to do with the processing of the blanks. So if the PM keeps processing their blanks the same way they have been then milk spotting will continue. They know how to fix the problem as does the RCM , but it would raise the premiums considerably to process the blanks properly to eliminate the milk spotting.


The milk spotting only affects the RCM "bullion" coins and not their Numismatic more expensive coins, so ya they know how to fix the problem. But would people pay $10 over spot for a silver maple leaf bullion coin? $10 is just a guess, I have no idea how they process the Numismatic coin blanks but how ever they are doing it , there are no milk spots.
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I still would *LOVE* to know what changed with the maple leaf since the older ones, especially the ones from the 1980s don't seem to be milkspot prone.
 
I love this idea but I have one point that I really hope gets addressed

Is it 100% going to be the same design every year?

I really think the key here is to change it up like the Somali Elephants have a different design once a year. You can still have unlimited mintage but man that would make this WAY more desirable to me and it is not a huge expense to produce it that way.

PLZ PERTH PLZ!
 
Perth Bullion and Goldstackers both have these coins up for pre-order. Price point leaves me wondering if it's something I'll be stacking or just getting a few of each year ( just to satisfy the collector in me ;) Will probably be the latter I think.
 
If the PM could capture the subtleties of the kangaroo fur, like the leaf in the maple, that would be impressive. Get it done right, no need to change the coin year after year. Even achieving the dimensional depth for shimmer is artistic in itself. Bit of artistic license for shimmer, varying depth like on maple would be exceptional. Just place the swirls meeting the triangular point in different positions, and maybe each year thereafter. Every point not in exactly same place on the coin as is now.
 
bron suchecki said:
It is an interesting idea however, make a circulating coin quality round, rough as gut but cheap as chips and sell them in bags, like the American junk bags.
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Anyone who wants shitty rounds can already buy generic, private mint buffaloes.
 
Big A.D. said:
bron suchecki said:
It is an interesting idea however, make a circulating coin quality round, rough as gut but cheap as chips and sell them in bags, like the American junk bags.
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Anyone who wants shitty rounds can already buy generic, private mint buffaloes.
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Perth Mint provides a level of confidence that a no name mint might not have.

And if there is a market for shitty rounds, why can't the Perth Mint grab a share of it?

Plus, 'circulating coin quality' is a long way from shitty.

I am hoping for something along the lines of

1555-1555-Perth-Mint_silver-plated-medallion.jpg

Source: Perth Mint
 
Northerncoins said:
it has nothing to do with the purity but everything to do with the processing of the blanks. So if the PM keeps processing their blanks the same way they have been then milk spotting will continue. They know how to fix the problem as does the RCM , but it would raise the premiums considerably to process the blanks properly to eliminate the milk spotting.
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We do not know how to fix the problem and are not conspiring to save money. Read the thread I linked to earlier. Proof coins are made from the same blanks as bullion, the only difference is in the annealing according to the factory guy I spoke to, the proof blanks are a bit harder. This has no impact on milkspotting.

The reason proofs don't milkspot is because they have a polished table and every coin is individually inspected. The mirror like table makes the existence of any inclusions easier to see with the naked eye as they are inspected. That without the mirror table and individual inspection potential milspot inclusions can't be found.
 
Hey Bron, I think the challenge for you and us is how to prevent it from happening after we receive them in mint condition. I know I for one have stopped collecting high premium Perth Mint coins (1 oz Lunars) simply because I'm scared to death of spots, and ruining/losing any premium I had invested in the coin. I only buy in rolls of 20, because I will only sell in rolls of 20 one day in the future. And hopefully the person who buys them from me, will keep them in rolls of 20, so no one will ever know if the spots are riddled on the coins I own. Sadly.
 
buybuybuy said:
I love this idea but I have one point that I really hope gets addressed

Is it 100% going to be the same design every year?

I really think the key here is to change it up like the Somali Elephants have a different design once a year. You can still have unlimited mintage but man that would make this WAY more desirable to me and it is not a huge expense to produce it that way.

PLZ PERTH PLZ!
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The same design each year is what PM wants to compete with ase,s and maple sales in Australia!

I dont see the problem with the same design each year? the date changes and there will be special release coins proofs guided painted high relief ect ect ect for the fussy collectors.

Believe it or not some like to collect same bullion coin different year! I have just spent a few months collecting an every year ase,if there was an aussie coin already I would have collected them first :)
 
barsenault said:
...... I know I for one have stopped collecting high premium Perth Mint coins (1 oz Lunars) simply because I'm scared to death of spots, and ruining/losing any premium I had invested in the coin. I only buy in rolls of 20, because I will only sell in rolls of 20 one day in the future. And hopefully the person who buys them from me, will keep them in rolls of 20, so no one will ever know if the spots are riddled on the coins I own. Sadly.
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This is a very poignant, very telling and absolutely accurate post, and it definitely sums up the state of what stackers face these days. I've also been buying rolls of Kooks and Lunars every year, but not any more. The milk spot zombie apocolypse is upon us, it seems to be out of control and there seem to be no known antidotes presently available. As I see things today, the prospect of milk spots has removed all sensibility and desirability from the idea of buying higher premium semi-numismatic coins. I see buying low-premium bullion coins and generic rounds and bars (or "blobs", as some love to call them) as presently being the prudent stacking practice. If your NTR or OPM silver bars develop milk spots, nobody will ever give a tinker's damn and potential resale price will be unaffected. We're entering into an era that'll probably be dominated by the milk spot-diseased Canadian Zombie Spotted Maple. I feel like I've been sucked into a bad horror movie.

On a related note, I recently bought four tubes of 2015 ASEs there was no spotting to be found on even one coin. I think ASEs will continue to be the highest-premium silver coins I'll buy until the milk spot apocalypse comes to be under control.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming..........

I've exchanged emails about the new bullion Kangaroo coin with Perth Mint sales and learned a couple unfortunate things. The new bullion Kangaroo is the same dimensions as the Saltwater Crocodile and it'll be distributed in the same tubes the Croc was distributed in. This means the new Roos will be banging around loose in those oversized tubes just like the Crocs were and they'll be just as vulnerable to post-mint damage and transit damage as the Crocs were. As of my most recent email exchange, no measures were in place to stop this from happening. Maybe (?) this problem being aired here may (?) inspire somebody at PM to do something about this problem (???). Then again---if they just don't care, maybe not...

Time will tell what it may.
 
Fat Freddy said:
barsenault said:
...... I know I for one have stopped collecting high premium Perth Mint coins (1 oz Lunars) simply because I'm scared to death of spots, and ruining/losing any premium I had invested in the coin. I only buy in rolls of 20, because I will only sell in rolls of 20 one day in the future. And hopefully the person who buys them from me, will keep them in rolls of 20, so no one will ever know if the spots are riddled on the coins I own. Sadly.
Click to expand...
This is a very poignant, very telling and absolutely accurate post, and it definitely sums up the state of what stackers face these days. I've also been buying rolls of Kooks and Lunars every year, but not any more. The milk spot zombie apocolypse is upon us, it seems to be out of control and there seem to be no known antidotes presently available. As I see things today, the prospect of milk spots has removed all sensibility and desirability from the idea of buying higher premium semi-numismatic coins. I see buying low-premium bullion coins and generic rounds and bars (or "blobs", as some love to call them) as presently being the prudent stacking practice. If your NTR or OPM silver bars develop milk spots, nobody will ever give a tinker's damn and potential resale price will be unaffected. We're entering into an era that'll probably be dominated by the milk spot-diseased Canadian Zombie Spotted Maple. I feel like I've been sucked into a bad horror movie.

On a related note, I recently bought four tubes of 2015 ASEs there was no spotting to be found on even one coin. I think ASEs will continue to be the highest-premium silver coins I'll buy until the milk spot apocalypse comes to be under control.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming..........

I've exchanged emails about the new bullion Kangaroo coin with Perth Mint sales and learned a couple unfortunate things. The new bullion Kangaroo is the same dimensions as the Saltwater Crocodile and it'll be distributed in the same tubes the Croc was distributed in. This means the new Roos will be banging around loose in those oversized tubes just like the Crocs were and they'll be just as vulnerable to post-mint damage and transit damage as the Crocs were. As of my most recent email exchange, no measures were in place to stop this from happening. Maybe (?) this problem being aired here may (?) inspire somebody at PM to do something about this problem (???). Then again---if they just don't care, maybe not...

Time will tell what it may.
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The crocs and the soon to be kanga are "low premium coins" and the beauty is only ever in the eyes of the beholder! Perth mint has said these coins along with the recent redback spider are low premium coins so you should expect nothing but low premium coins?admittedly the croc was pretty good quality but you cant expect a low premium coin to be made,handled and package as the higher premium coins are or a quality anywhere near worth putting gloves on to handle?
They are just a minted blob with a face value to be purchased in tubes not a masterpiece to present as a slabbed highest grade. these coins are worth no more and are no more collectable or prized than any modern 1oz bullion minted bar ase or maple.

I am sure PM does not have in mind future premium hikes for purchasers with these low premium coins its just "some purchasers do". First coin will be worth having for in the future and very small mintage dates for speculators, other than that thy are just low premium silver for those who prefer a government backed silver coin to a blob. :)
 
fishtaco said:
The crocs and the soon to be kanga are "low premium coins" and the beauty is only ever in the eyes of the beholder! Perth mint has said these coins along with the recent redback spider are low premium coins so you should expect nothing but low premium coins?admittedly the croc was pretty good quality but you cant expect a low premium coin to be made,handled and package as the higher premium coins are or a quality anywhere near worth putting gloves on to handle? They are just a minted blob with a face value to be purchased in tubes not a masterpiece to present as a slabbed highest grade. these coins are worth no more and are no more collectable or prized than any modern 1oz bullion minted bar ase or maple. I am sure PM does not have in mind future premium hikes for purchasers with these low premium coins its just "some purchasers do". First coin will be worth having for in the future and very small mintage dates for speculators, other than that thy are just low premium silver for those who prefer a government backed silver coin to a blob. :)
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I disagree with your "it's just bullion so you're not allowed to expect anything" school of thought. I certainly don't expect these things to be the equal of Panda, Libertad or Britannia proofs and I have almost no expectations for them, but I do have some. Your implying that I expect the new Kangaroos to be "...a masterpiece to present as a slabbed highest grade..." is as incorrect as it is inaccurate. I never said anything even remotely like that, so don't put words in my mouth. I don't expect the new 'Roos to be encapsulated (as if they were Lunars or Kooks) but I definitely do expect that they should at least be distributed in appropriately sized tubes, so that they're not banging around loose in the tubes and sustaining transit damage. Unfortunately, it looks like appropriately sized tubes that'll prevent transit damage won't be the case for the new Kangaroos. IMO that's sad because correctly sized tubes would be the appropriate thing for PM to do. ASEs, Britannias, Libertads, Philharmonics, Noah's Arks and even Spotted Maples all come in appropriately sized tubes. I see no reason why PM can't keep pace with the rest of the market on this issue. The new Kangaroo is supposed to be competitive with the other low-premium coins, so they should try to be just that---which includes appropriately sized tubes.

BTW---according to the operating principles of SS's #1 blobsnob, the word "blob" should be used to refer to bars and not government-issued legal tender coins. If you intend to be another blobsnob, you need to get your jargon straight.
 
bron suchecki said:
I will have to check with the factory guys, I don't think the design will have anything to do with milkspotting. Hopefully the new blank factory will minimise/eliminate the problem.

Silver bars will probably stay 999, we get varying types of source material and I doubt we can guarantee an entire 9999 output so anything that does meet coining standards (which also has to do with what sort of minute trace metals there are) will be used for silver cast bars.
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No offence Bron...This is rubbish. The Perth Mint will STILL have milk spots...There is a issue full stop. By the way I'm a real silver enthusiast how about a tour of the new plant and the new refining process. New blank factory ? I really want to get a first hand experience of seeing metal on metal sliding down a slide...

CHEERS....
 
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