safety deposit boxes - why non bank?

A

acebass

New Member
Hi all,

Greetings from a newbie with a small one (stack)

Just considering where to hide my booty, too paranoid to leave it at home.

I am considering a deposit box in Melbourne, but there is a waiting list at guardian vaults.

I believe that I can get a box with westpac, who I bank with, but having read some posts I see that the suggestion is usually for non bank deposit boxes.

May I ask why?

Thanks

Matt
 
There's a myriad of reasons but the main one for me is if you don't trust banks, don't trust them with your PM's!

In the US there's been a lot of stories about SDB contents of innocent owners being seized/misappropriated by the Gov or bank. California has an inactive SDB rule that allows the bank to seize the contents after 3 years! It used to be 15 years. SDB's aren't covered by FDIC insurance either.

Couple of years ago the contents of 5,000+ SDB's were raided by the UK Gov because they believed they were being used by criminals. All 5,000+ boxes :rolleyes:

While I think the Aus SDB's are relatively safe enough, it's best to mitigate risk and store your PM's where you think they're the safest. Read the fine print very carefully before putting everything in one SDB. I have a bit in an SDB but the majority in Guardian Vaults and some in super secret hiding places. This was when I realized silver is quite a PITA. Gold is so much easier to move/store/hide/swallow.

Think of possible scenarios that may/may not happen and do what you think is best. Or do what most do- go boating with your silver and have an inconvenient accident ;)
 
The government are capable of ANYTHING, but that applies to Guardian as much as The Big 4 SDBs.

Ours is in a (BIG) Big 4 SDB, and the bank has NIL idea what I have in it, and they have NIL title to it. If the box has been paid for each year, but not accessed, I doubt they have any legal right to the contents. Insurance is the box holders responsibility.

JMO



OC
 
thanks guys,

forgive me, I am getting used to the silver stackers language, what's the pun around the boating accident?

next one i have to figure out is bitcoin, but that is for after the grand final weekend partying

Regards
 
Can't see much difference in the risk of either - just go with whatever is available

More important is the mechanism of access - how often can you access and can you do so privately
is access with dual keys or do you just have a padlocked tin box the bank keeps in their safe

I think there is much more risk from a rogue employee or crooks breaking in than from the govt


There is a case some years ago of a bank branch in Melb moving locations and losing a bunch of boxes in the move
 
House said:
There's a myriad of reasons but the main one for me is if you don't trust banks, don't trust them with your PM's!

In the US there's been a lot of stories about SDB contents of innocent owners being seized/misappropriated by the Gov or bank. California has an inactive SDB rule that allows the bank to seize the contents after 3 years! It used to be 15 years. SDB's aren't covered by FDIC insurance either.

Couple of years ago the contents of 5,000+ SDB's were raided by the UK Gov because they believed they were being used by criminals. All 5,000+ boxes :rolleyes:

While I think the Aus SDB's are relatively safe enough, it's best to mitigate risk and store your PM's where you think they're the safest. Read the fine print very carefully before putting everything in one SDB. I have a bit in an SDB but the majority in Guardian Vaults and some in super secret hiding places. This was when I realized silver is quite a PITA. Gold is so much easier to move/store/hide/swallow.

Think of possible scenarios that may/may not happen and do what you think is best. Or do what most do- go boating with your silver and have an inconvenient accident ;)
Click to expand...

As an ex dive master, I would not recommend the boating accident idea, unless you are going to dive down and dig as well. If you do, then do the following underwater or on land.
<paranoia> pick a random location, take a sheet or two and a post hole shovel, dig down deep, being careful to replace topsoil with topsoil and subsoil with subsoil (that is what the sheet is for). Then start a track on your hand held gps and walk out to a track or road. Make a note on the .gpx file like "3 steps north of the big tree" (that is at the digging end, gps isn't that accurate) plug your gps into your netbook running puppy linux.(Every aussie should be using this baby) Encrypt the .gpx file ON THE GPS using bcrypt (so the original file is properly shredded) move it off the gps and keep multiple copies in multiple locations (in case some badge carrying guy with a new law attempts to confiscate your intellectual property or PM's) and no I don't recommend keeping those encrypted files anywhere on the internet</paranoia>
Rest easy. If you dug deep enough, it won't be found easily, unless someone has got a metal detector that can reach down a metre or so. :D
 
" it won't be found easily, unless someones got a metal detector that can reach down a metre or so."


If such an animal exists, the government will have the de luxe model!



OC
 
Old Codger said:
" it won't be found easily, unless someones got a metal detector that can reach down a metre or so."


If such an animal exists, the government will have the de luxe model!



OC
Click to expand...

<paranoia> yeah better keep digging down till you scratch up some pandas</paranoia>
 
There certainly are risks to SDB's. No bank that I am aware of in the US provides insurance....that's up to the renter of the SDB. Will an insurance co provide insurance for exactly what you store in the SDB? I don't know...you'll have to inquire. In my town, the fees associated with an ample size SDB and insurance fees make that avenue quite a costly way to hold pieces of metal.

On the web there are articles written on some creative ways / places to store your metal yourself. Everything from false walls to in ground burial. You might want to read some of those articles before you go the route of a SDB.


.
 
acebass said:
May I ask why?
Click to expand...

Look at Cyprus - that should be encouragement enough - this is why I was leery of getting a deposit box myself (both in and outside of banking circles).

However, Big AD from the forums here (thank you!) put it very nicely to me at a recent Sydney Stackers meeting... a bank can suffer a run, or the Government can institute banking or capital controls. In such a situation, the bank can lock its doors, and also lock you out of access to your deposit box. A vault (like Guardian) is in the business of leasing real estate, and there is n


mmissinglink said:
No bank that I am aware of in the US provides insurance....that's up to the renter of the SDB. Will an insurance co provide insurance for exactly what you store in the SDB? I don't know...
Click to expand...

This is another advantage of a private vault - often they will include some basic amount of cover with your SDB, and you can optionally insure for higher amounts without having to disclose what is being insured.

In a way, you can think of it like an "agreed value" car insurance policy - if you have the car stolen, the insurer won't go into a lot of rigmarole about what the car was, it's condition etc - they'll just cut you a cheque for the agreed amount and you're done.o such risks in this situation - they are a private company, not subject to a run or governmental control of the sort that banks would be subject to.
 
In addition to what others have said - how do banks control access to their deposit boxes? I've never used a bank deposit box, but from what I've read, it sounds like it's pretty typical that you just need to sign for access (which would be pretty dodgy, so I do wonder about this... perhaps they use PIN access now - I really don't know). I think that many banks also only provide quite limited access times.

I know that Guardian Vaults uses a handprint reader along with an RFID card and photographic ID by the guard at entry, as well as dual locks on the actual boxes. I expect that both their physical and procedural security is far more substantial than the vaults most bank branches would have. Also, because vaulting is their entire business, they have plenty of experience with it and it is in their best interests to get it right.
 
Burial down a metre now that sounds like fun, ever tried to did that deep by hand.
Looking at senario
Dig massive hole, last time I did that in the back yard,rubble pit, the guy next door thought I was burring the missus as he had not seen her for a while. She was looking after her sick mother.
Place pm in hold backfill.
Never dig it up as it's long term,die ,metel given back to the earth.
Maybe it's just me, but 2 x 10oz bars of gold is small and easy to hide, lose, without a big hole.
Given most stackers have less(some much less) than 1000oz silver say $26k I can't see what all the paranoia is, I park a car worth twice as much and walk away from it, no insurance, every day.
Maybe I'm just not that paranoid.
 
I agree with BB and that is why I store my pms at banks and make sure that everyone who knows I own pms is aware of that fact. Other than TV shows, how many times have you seen or read about the contents of a SDB being looted?

Only two situations I have heard of were both done by authorities.

1. The British police raided SDBs as House mentioned. And a lot of contents were stolen by policemen and the government lost several million dollars in damage payments.

2. A Bank America branch in California sent SDB contents to the state even if they were current. Again, a huge screw up that cost BA.



Never heard of or read about a SDB being looted in my state or anywhere else. To each their own, but I would rather have my pms where a criminal cannot force me to give them to him.
 
Chillidog said:
...Given most stackers have less(some much less) than 1000oz silver say $26k I can't see what all the paranoia is, I park a car worth twice as much and walk away from it, no insurance, every day...
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree... start looking around you... there plenty of cyclists riding a bike worth $10,000... the average amateur photographer will have $6000 hanging on his shoulders... the average business person has more than $5000 in their laptop, phone, etc... the tool bag of the average tradie is worth more than $5000... many folks have a $10,000 home theatre system... plenty of homes have artworks hanging on the wall that are worth $5000... the list goes on and on... and all these people have little concern about being robbed, maimed or killed for any of this stuff... and I am certainly not worried about a few tubes of ASE's or a few ounces of gold.

The next time you see a smartly dressed man or woman walking through the Central Business District your local town or city... do a quick calculation of the valuables on their person... more than a few women will be well over $15,000...
 
Silver Pauper said:
Chillidog said:
...Given most stackers have less(some much less) than 1000oz silver say $26k I can't see what all the paranoia is, I park a car worth twice as much and walk away from it, no insurance, every day...
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree... start looking around you... there plenty of cyclists riding a bike worth $10,000... the average amateur photographer will have $6000 hanging on his shoulders... the average business person has more than $5000 in their laptop, phone, etc... the tool bag of the average tradie is worth more than $5000... many folks have a $10,000 home theatre system... plenty of homes have artworks hanging on the wall that are worth $5000... the list goes on and on... and all these people have little concern about being robbed, maimed or killed for any of this stuff... and I am certainly not worried about a few tubes of ASE's or a few ounces of gold.

The next time you see a smartly dressed man or woman walking through the Central Business District your local town or city... do a quick calculation of the valuables on their person... more than a few women will be well over $15,000...
Click to expand...


I know a lady that walks around with over 100k in jewelry, it's not big,not shush diamond crap, real McCoy,
I asked her do people notice, her answer
Very few, most can't tell the difference between real or fake. given the fake bling most girls wear these days, not surprised no one notices.
Before the gold robbers(in shopping centers) got to them. Most women had $10k in jewelry.
Then there is male watches, thinking rolex ect.
 
^^^
just reinforces how 'cheap' gold and silver are compared to consumer goods & fashion.
 
Silver Pauper said:
Chillidog said:
...Given most stackers have less(some much less) than 1000oz silver say $26k I can't see what all the paranoia is, I park a car worth twice as much and walk away from it, no insurance, every day...
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree... start looking around you... there plenty of cyclists riding a bike worth $10,000... the average amateur photographer will have $6000 hanging on his shoulders... the average business person has more than $5000 in their laptop, phone, etc... the tool bag of the average tradie is worth more than $5000... many folks have a $10,000 home theatre system... plenty of homes have artworks hanging on the wall that are worth $5000... the list goes on and on... and all these people have little concern about being robbed, maimed or killed for any of this stuff... and I am certainly not worried about a few tubes of ASE's or a few ounces of gold.

The next time you see a smartly dressed man or woman walking through the Central Business District your local town or city... do a quick calculation of the valuables on their person... more than a few women will be well over $15,000...
Click to expand...


Worth? It is important to not confuse "worth" with "price" and actual "value"
 
systematic said:
Worth? It is important to not confuse "worth" with "price" and actual "value"
Click to expand...
It is important to also realize these terms differ depending if context is personal, economic, or business.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top