yrh0413 said:
Thinking about it after saying earlier in another post you guys outside the EU might not be charged VAT , because the coin is legal currency and you are paying 100 for a 100 coin VAT would not be involved.
Royal Mint releases first 100 for 100 coin
- Thread starter AgAuNEWS
- Start date
Thinking about it after saying earlier in another post you guys outside the EU might not be charged VAT , because the coin is legal currency and you are paying 100 for a 100 coin VAT would not be involved.
Andy28 said:
No its legal currency.100 of fiat for a 100 coin
Pirocco
Well-Known Member
Existing case.
What is the difference between a $100 for $100 face value silver coin and a $100 banknote?
Margin value case.
What is the difference between a $100,000,000,000 for $100,000,000,000 face value silver coin and a $100,000,000,000 banknote?
Or even the electronic data storage at a bank - version?
Since the face value - carriers own cost is like a silly fraction of the face value, and is further worsening with every higher face value, one could as well just keep the money at the bank, and be able to use it to purchase from anyone, instead of being limited to financial institutions.
What is the difference between a $100 for $100 face value silver coin and a $100 banknote?
Margin value case.
What is the difference between a $100,000,000,000 for $100,000,000,000 face value silver coin and a $100,000,000,000 banknote?
Or even the electronic data storage at a bank - version?
Since the face value - carriers own cost is like a silly fraction of the face value, and is further worsening with every higher face value, one could as well just keep the money at the bank, and be able to use it to purchase from anyone, instead of being limited to financial institutions.
mmissinglink
Active Member
Pirocco, you are right. This piece of 2 oz bullion is a way overpriced gimmick meant to fool the gullible. Those who fall for the bait may never realize just how poor a purchase this will be, in my view. If it's fiat British Pounds that someone in England wants for their modern silver bullion coins, they're much better off buying low cost silver bullion Britannias instead and selling them at the right time.
.
.
For us non-UK citizens, it is difficult to understand the "temptation" of owning these xx for xx coins. From what I read on Royal Mint, these coins are readily acceptable by UK Post Offices unlike the horror stories we read regarding RCM's similar coins.
I have a couple of 20 for 20 that I got them for ~30% off its list price. Probably gonna pop it out from its paper sleeve and keep one in my pocket. Planning to go UK for my honeymoon, by then just exchange these for some at the post office. Need not worry bout milk spots scratches toning etc.
I have a couple of 20 for 20 that I got them for ~30% off its list price. Probably gonna pop it out from its paper sleeve and keep one in my pocket. Planning to go UK for my honeymoon, by then just exchange these for some at the post office. Need not worry bout milk spots scratches toning etc.
Seems an okay arrangement for those in the UK. Nobody would have quibbled about it much in 2011 when the bull market was on. One possible down side for we in Oz - unlikely as it seems at the moment, but what happens if the $AU rises again and the pound tanks? Of course the opposite could also be true....
mmissinglink said:fishtaco said:mmissinglink said:
How do you price a silver collector coins value that cost you more than silver value? How do you determine its selling value? against fiat
If you buy a 2 oz silver coin for 100 pounds and it looses some collector value it becomes worth less, if you buy a 2 oz silver coin with a 100 pound face value it will always be worth 100 pounds regardless its collector value.
This is the reason many like to buy Maples because of the higher face value of $5 as opposed to most others $1 face value,
You loose value through inflation (among other factors). A Pound or a Yen or a US Dollar can easily loose value by that mechanism...these are fiat currencies. So the value of the Pound in 10 years may be half of what it is today. Think of it this way, how much bread, orange juice, and canned food can you buy today with that 100 Pounds; in 10 years, (all other things remaining relatively unchanged...like the spot price of silver) that 100 Pounds may buy only half of what you could buy today. So when you trade in that 100 Pound coin for 100 Pound notes, you will have hypothetically lost considerable value. I won't even go into the other factors that can drive down the value of a fiat currency.
That's not saying anything about the collector value. I have no idea if this coin will become popular and therefore gain significant premium over the years....only time will tell.
I'm simply addressing the denominated fiat value and how inflation alone can considerably devalue the denominated value of a coin like that.
If you are buying this coin, good luck....I wish the best for it's popularity and future premium.
.
I am not quite sure what you are trying to say?
How can you predict that Silver per volume will increase in value over Fiat or inflation? You have no more control over silver value than fiat value and you actually buy Silver with fiat giving it a fiat value!
In the end all them that stack and all them that collect define their collections value of silver to present day fiat value not a Silver predicted value called "silver"
yrh0413 said:
I would rather have pounds than any other currency lol
You have to ask yourself "Why is 1 pound worth more than any 1 of any other currency"? and some believe the charts Bull Sh## lol
Its Is the same reason Gold per oz is worth more than silver per oz and always will be?
I too love to hold GBP instead of my own currency SGD, but it is not possible for me to bring my 100 for 100 silver coin to the nearest money exchange and. Even if I bring my silver Britannia to the money exchange I doubt they will give me 2 for each of them 
still back to what I replied earlier... this 100 for 100 only make sense for UK citizens.
still back to what I replied earlier... this 100 for 100 only make sense for UK citizens.
yrh0413 said:I too love to hold GBP instead of my own currency SGD, but it is not possible for me to bring my 100 for 100 silver coin to the nearest money exchange and. Even if I bring my silver Britannia to the money exchange I doubt they will give me 2 for each of them
still back to what I replied earlier... this 100 for 100 only make sense for UK citizens.
Sell them to me I will gladly give you 2 pound each converted from AU $ to SGD $,s at my conversion cost
mmissinglink
Active Member
fishtaco said:mmissinglink said:fishtaco said:How do you price a silver collector coins value that cost you more than silver value? How do you determine its selling value? against fiat
If you buy a 2 oz silver coin for 100 pounds and it looses some collector value it becomes worth less, if you buy a 2 oz silver coin with a 100 pound face value it will always be worth 100 pounds regardless its collector value.
This is the reason many like to buy Maples because of the higher face value of $5 as opposed to most others $1 face value,
You loose value through inflation (among other factors). A Pound or a Yen or a US Dollar can easily loose value by that mechanism...these are fiat currencies. So the value of the Pound in 10 years may be half of what it is today. Think of it this way, how much bread, orange juice, and canned food can you buy today with that 100 Pounds; in 10 years, (all other things remaining relatively unchanged...like the spot price of silver) that 100 Pounds may buy only half of what you could buy today. So when you trade in that 100 Pound coin for 100 Pound notes, you will have hypothetically lost considerable value. I won't even go into the other factors that can drive down the value of a fiat currency.
That's not saying anything about the collector value. I have no idea if this coin will become popular and therefore gain significant premium over the years....only time will tell.
I'm simply addressing the denominated fiat value and how inflation alone can considerably devalue the denominated value of a coin like that.
If you are buying this coin, good luck....I wish the best for it's popularity and future premium.
.
I am not quite sure what you are trying to say?
How can you predict that Silver per volume will increase in value over Fiat or inflation? You have no more control over silver value than fiat value and you actually buy Silver with fiat giving it a fiat value!
In the end all them that stack and all them that collect define their collections value of silver to present day fiat value not a Silver predicted value called "silver"
I believe what I'm positing is actually simple to understand.
Whether a 2 oz bullion coin like that has 100 or 20,000,000 minted onto it, when you treat its value in terms of the nominal value ascribed on it, you are valuing that bullion in a fiat currency alone.
It's not necessarily the same when you value blobs you have in terms of how much food they can buy for a year because while you will have to swap / sell the blobs for a fiat currency, you are not necessarily valuing it in terms of that currency. For example, if I paid $20/oz for 375 1 oz bars of silver today and in 10 years I have a need to sell those blobs, I don't value it at $20....I value it at the going buy-back rate at the time I sell which, when all is said and done, may yield me a year's worth of 3 good meals a day with enough left over to buy batteries for all my gadgets for the year as well. So you can value those blobs in terms of how much food you can buy....not how much fiat you paid for them. But when you value a coin based only on the nominal value minted onto it, you are valuing it only in fiat.
Besides, if you are valuing a bullion coin only in terms of fiat, wouldn't it make more sense to just store the same amount of value in a paper note? There are 100 notes aren't there? They are much easier to store than a coin, wouldn't you agree?
.
mmissinglink
Active Member
fishtaco said:yrh0413 said:
I would rather have pounds than any other currency lol
You have to ask yourself "Why is 1 pound worth more than any 1 of any other currency"? and some believe the charts Bull Sh## lol
Its Is the same reason Gold per oz is worth more than silver per oz and always will be?
Pound losing ground to the Dollar: http://www.x-rates.com/graph/?from=USD&to=GBP (look at the 1 year chart...sad trajectory for the Pound)
.
Just received my Big ben coin this morning a very nice 2oz lump
mmissinglink said:
If someone offered you 2 fiat notes that cost face value, one a regular 100 note and the other a 100 note that came with completely free insurance that paid out 2oz of sliver in case of inflation or hyper inflation which would you take?
It's not a replacement for bullion bars but it's not meant to be.
There is an old and immutable rule called Gresham's law that says bad money drives out good, meaning the money that's worth more intrinsically is hoarded and sucked out of circulation while people try and spend the debased money with the same face value.
That's why it was very hard to find silver US coins very shortly after they stopped making them in the states even though the silver in them wasn't worth the face value of the coin.
The fiat here has the same face value but 20% less intrinsic value. The coin is more likely to survive a fire and you would need a hell of a lot of them before storing them became that much more inconvenient than paper.
It's not a replacement for bullion and it's not for every day spending but if you hold any cash why wouldn't you have this instead of paper?
The Royal mint has now sold out of the 1st batch of Big Ben coins and the next batch will not be available until mid February if you order now.
mmissinglink
Active Member
phrenzy said:
Since no one is forcing you to take either, there is a third and much better choice if one believes that the most important value is fiat value; that choice is to buy undervalued currencies perhaps like the Mexican Peso or South Korean Won.
If you believe that silver is insurance, then just buy the lowest cost blobs and don't bother significantly overpaying for a coin that contains only 2 oz of silver.
Arguably, you could stack a lot more paper notes of the same nominal value per note as a coin in the same box that you could coins of that denomination. And, that box would weigh a lot less.
If you are concerned about fire, buy a good quality fire rated safe as opposed to a cheap safe.
If you are concerned about VAT, then buy silver bullion which is held in an accredited vault in an allocated account.
I am aware of what Gresham's Law is and I do know about at least a couple of historical accounts of hoarding "good" money.
But the bottom line is, there are better products that can be stored if you are trying to maximize your purchasing power in British Pounds and you also believe that the value to be concerned about of a coin is the nominal represented value minted onto it.
I am as far from a permabull as I have seen (in comparison to most other silver stackers) yet I am long term bullish on silver. I don't believe silver will go to the moon tomorrow yet I also believe silver will push consistently higher than its current price range is a couple of years or so. As far as I can see, all physical commodities markets tend to generally work in the same way; that is they are sentiment driven.
As I've stated from the very beginning, if you believe the coin will gain in premium to to collector demand, then that's a completely separate issue but I've already stated that I am not smart enough to know whether or not this coin will significantly appreciate in value due to collector demand.
We do know that the Lunar Skulls coin has done very well in that department.
.
The Big Ben coin is doing very well already in the secondary market mmissinglink if that's your thing. Mines a keeper whatever price they make on ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...00+Big+Ben+coin&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...00+Big+Ben+coin&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc