Rookie Mistake - Mangled Lady Fortuna

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Silver91

Member
Hey Guys,


As one of my first purchases some time ago, bought a 1 oz PAMP Lady Fortuna from a local dealer here in Brisbane (one guess who!). Sold me a Lady Fortuna that was scratched up and had marks all over the place and me not knowing any better bought it. (Tried attaching pictures but don't really know how). What's more, for a Pamp, it didn't come with any certificate and no carded case. Just in a little ziplock bag.

Obviously, knowing what I know now, it was a horrible purchase and probably lost a lot of numismatic and premium value of the coin.

Happy to keep it until the price goes up eventually but wanted to know if anyone else has had the same experience? Any advice?
Is there any recourse going back to the dealer or is it a typical buyer beware scenario?

Is it advisable to get rid of the piece now and use that cash to buy something else?

I want to know if the situation is salvageable in any way.

Thanks
 
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Its just bullion --- youll find people like me prefer them loose anyway to jam em in the safe without the packaging that gnaws on your space capacity.

Pamp Gold Bullion has no numismatic premium as its not numismatic in the slightest.. it just has A PREMIUM much like the Perth Mint bars for no other reason than packaging and snub value (that i can factor).

I dont ever see these as being "collectable" as such as they are not poured and the design has been exactly like this for years meaning there wont be any demand for this "type"

Not as bad as you think.. in fact makes next to know difference to me..

1for1
 
Silver91 said:
also, some weird red marks on the coin...and no its not lipstick =)
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kfc-finger marks.

Take a look at Goldstackers "low premium" section to get an idea of the dollar difference between "used" items compared to "new" retail.
 
Sometimes appearance won't matter if you sell it at the right price (below spot).

My only concern is whether it is a genuine 1 oz gold bar.
 
1for1 said:
Pamp Gold Bullion has no numismatic premium as its not numismatic in the slightest.. it just has A PREMIUM much like the Perth Mint bars for no other reason than packaging and snub value (that i can factor).
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This pretty much sums it up - although I would hope that the bar was sold at a lower price than a brand new one, as they come in tamper-evident packaging that some investors prefer. Out of the packaging in that condition it should be sold with a lower premium over spot accordingly - I would not be impressed if you had purchased this (and paid a price specifically advertised for PAMP) without knowing it was going to be a buyback.

Some downstream buyers are very fussy about condition, others are like, meh, gold is gold.
 
goldpelican said:
1for1 said:
Pamp Gold Bullion has no numismatic premium as its not numismatic in the slightest.. it just has A PREMIUM much like the Perth Mint bars for no other reason than packaging and snub value (that i can factor).
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This pretty much sums it up - although I would hope that the bar was sold at a lower price than a brand new one, as they come in tamper-evident packaging that some investors prefer. Out of the packaging in that condition it should be sold with a lower premium over spot accordingly - I would not be impressed if you had purchased this (and paid a price specifically advertised for PAMP) without knowing it was going to be a buyback.

Some downstream buyers are very fussy about condition, others are like, meh, gold is gold.
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Correct.. by having a mint bar in mint condition everyone will be interested (at the right price) - by having a ruffed up bar like this unsealed you are potentially halving the deamnd as about half of stakcers ive traded with in Australia are very fussy and like "mint" bars even if it is just bullion.

And agree with GP's sentiment that the seller should be transparent when selling a pamp in this condition - as the premiums you pay are for the certi-card and unique serial and mint condition, subjectively i don't care about mint or COA's but plenty out there do (and you sound like one of these)

CAVEAT EMPTOR - Let the buyer beware.. its your money - if you are not happy with a trade dont do it, or complain until you are satisfied, sounds like you got rolled by not understanding the variables and didnt stick up for yourself.. i hope you have learnt from this - i know i have learnt from doing a bunch of trades.. many have been less than perfect yet here i am still playing.

1for1
 
Definitely learnt a lot from this experience and hopefully a lot wiser now for it.

I'm just genuinely surprised at the dealer (located in Charlotte St. Brisbane!) and their level of customer service and duty of care to disclose certain things. i take 100% responsibility for the transaction and not knowing any better and definitely did pay a premium for it because it was not one of their own branded bars.

guess the only consolation i have is that i bought it a couple of years back so as long as i can still get spot for it one day, i'll be happy enough..

thanks for all the advice guys
 
I think you should be entitled to a refund. I once purchase the same bar, however, the serial number was misprinted (numbers were overlapping and crooked) and I got a refund, no questions asked.
 
Argent47 said:
I think you should be entitled to a refund. I once purchase the same bar, however, the serial number was misprinted (numbers were overlapping and crooked) and I got a refund, no questions asked.
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I won't weigh in on the should or should not get a refund argument, as, in my opinion, that would depend on the price paid.

If, for example, Silver91 paid spot price for this bar, I personally would consider that fair, and I would accept it myself at that price - I also recognise others may disagree with that point of view, and rightly so... "fair value" is only discernible to the eyes of the beholder.

On your particular issue, Argent, I can understand a different "argument" on refundability may take place, both in the eyes of the purchaser, and the manufacturer - and that is due to audit requirements, potentially for self manager super funds or many other types of investment... in your particular case the serial number was misprinted and overlapping - this could potentially cause an issue in certain investment environments where identification and auditing requirements would require clear, legible and identifiable serial numbers. So, whilst I agree in your case there is a good cause for a refund (though I realise you may not have needed that level of accountability for yourself), I don't know that I could extend the "should get a refund because" argument that far in Silver91's case.
 
TreasureHunter said:
A bunch of dealers sell stained, marked, chipped coins and bars. How disappointing!
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Guess it's only disappointing if they sell it at normal retail price
 
A dealer might even be obliged to provide a refund in the case described by Argent47 due to the fact this this is an obvious manufacturing defect.

For scratched up bars, as Silver91 obviously accepts, it's likely really just a case of caveat emptor. If it was sold at the usual retail for a PAMP Fortuna bar, it's the type of thing that would make me seriously consider whether I wanted to conduct future business with the seller, but mostly just due to doubts regarding their moral probity arising. It still looks like a nice bar to me (of course it does - it's gold!). The PAMPs have ridiculous premiums, but the bars really are beautiful.
 
thanks for all the advice guys, appreciate it, if you ever come down to brisbane - drinks on me!

taking everything into consideration, there's little if any recourse, but the main thing to figure out is if i've drastically paid over the spot for this.

does anyone know how to find the spot of gold on March 12, 2010? If I can find that number, I can calculate the premium since I paid $1256 for the bar.
 
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