Removing the plastic?

N

nbboy1123

New Member
Do you remove the plastic that your silver bars come in, or leave it on? I hate the feel of the plastic, but I would assume they help keep the bars from tarnishing. Any words of wisdom to this topic?
 
Take em out to fondle. New bars don't have a premium to destroy that's worth worrying about.
 
I wouldn't systematically remove the plastic, if you want to see metal not plastic then remove it for a few but leave the rest. It avoids/slowsdown tarnishing, dirt/moisture/fat and so on. Put yourself in the place of the future buyer of your bars, he wants to see a fine shiny bar too and the plastic is ment exactly for that. You give him then the option, if you remove all the plastics then you do it for your buyer too, whether he likes it or not. I have several kinds of silver, every kind has a few 'bare metal' / opened.
My 90% junk sits in close-to-airtight boxes. I have a small part of it in a few jars, so I can see them without 'compromising' the enclosed air.
Bars are of course not that suited for jars eh.
 
I thought I'd buy some gold and so bought a 1oz certicard from PerthMint.
But, I can't take it out and touch the gold and so it is somewhat disappointing!
I'm thinking of buying a gold coin or bar with NO plastic just so that I can actually TOUCH the gold.
 
nbboy1123 said:
Do you remove the plastic that your silver bars come in, or leave it on? I hate the feel of the plastic, but I would assume they help keep the bars from tarnishing. Any words of wisdom to this topic?
Click to expand...

I have collected numismatics for 30 years now and this is a problematic issue.

The first question I guess is wether you hold your items short term or are in it for the long haul.

Until recently coin holders, albums any plastic used to encapsulate PM's have most likely had solvents in the plastic, a similar problem as with old photo albums. This can lead to some really nasty surprises in particular after a few years. I have heard of one case in Germany where a collector revisited his (very large,rare and expensive) silver collection after 15 years in a vault and almost all of it was ruined.

Silver does react with its environment and develops naturally a patina (simple wrapping or even capsules will not prevent that!!). This process (difficult but not impossible to replicate artificially) can add to the authenticity of the item. Any Silver older than 20 years that does not have some kind of patina would generally have been cleaned. Vacuum sealing in special suitable plastic may prevent it (I have no experience). 90% of coins on Feebay are cleaned. Most astute collectors will not touch such items.

It is in my view very pretty, when colours up to the full rainbow spectrum develop, and it adds to the character and history.

However, the other camp would like their items to look as if they had just been minted. I understand this view although I don't share it. There is also the issue of the "german guy". So what to do?

There are many tricks, expensive baths and more expensive cleaning agents on offer for all sorts of PM's. In the case of Silver it is all rubbish. Any abrasive cleaning (i.e. toothbrush and toothpaste, baking soda) or aluminium foil and boiling water don't work well. Abrasive cleaning certainly destroys the surface of any silver item and aluminium (many different grades and manufacturers) and boiling water for one may leave ugly stains. You may as well put it in the washing machine.

Dirt is best removed with a sonic cleaner (can be expensive for bullion sized items).

But there is light at the end of the tunnel for those that want to remove the patina (tarnish). Lemon juice - I am not kidding.

Any concentrated juice from the local shop will do. If you wish you can use freshly pressed Lemons as well.

Try this at first with a less valuable item, best is a coin!

1. Pour the juice in a container (translucent glass is best) that will hold your item as well, with enough space around the edges. Fully submerge your item. You can dilute the juice if you wish with water (distilled is best). The cleaning time will depend on the condition of the item. If it is very soiled or stained (even by paint) it will take longer. Let it sit for a few hours and inspect. This can be done for even two or three days if necessary.
2. Take the item out of the bath. The juice (depending on how soiled) may have discoloured towards a greenish yellow. That is normal.
3. Place carefully on a layer of baking soda. The soda will react with the juice and fizz up. This is a wanted reaction that neutralises the acid in the juice.
4. Then place under running tap water to clean thoroughly. If there is still residue - repeat. If there is still residue after that you can try to slightly rub the soda over the surface after the bath (remember the soda as fine as it is, is still abrasive) with your fingers.
5. Place to dry on a linen cloth and fold the cloth over the item (you don't want lime stains from the water)

You should not touch Silver with bare hands. Our hands have natural chemicals on them that may permanently damage Silver if not cleaned off. Gloves are inexpensive and still allow you to feel your items.

This process also works on a number of derivatives (AgCu, CuNi, Ni, NiCu) Do not try this on Copper, Gold or Bronze!!!!

This way you can enjoy the feel of your Silver without the ugly wrapping and rejuvenate when you see the need to do so.
Cheers
Hagen
 
Theoretically speaking, it'd be better for the long-term condition and appearance of the bar to keep it in the plastic sheath it was originally shipped in.
In reality, those sheaths always harden and crack with time and the enclosed bar will most likely end up getting toned near where the crack forms.

All my 10oz bars are Engelhards and I only have a couple of the 10oz stamped portrait-mode bars. Almost all the ones I have are poured or stamped
landscape-mode, so they're mostly 70's (and earlier) vintages. Not even one of them has an intact plastic sheath. The few sheaths that I have are
cracked, so the bars in them have a major dark-toned side, end or spot where the crack is. The sheaths that used to be on most of the bars are long
since gone and toning has inevitably gotten a life of its own and run its course.

Bottom line, IMO---Although the theoretical "it's better for the condition/appearance of the bar to keep the bar in the original plastic sheath" is positively
correct, the sheaths will by definition ultimately fail, harden, crack and allow toning to occur anyhow. So---what the hell? Help nature along! Slice the
stupid, guaranteed-to-fail-someday-anyhow plastic sheath open, pull it off and throw it away! Enjoy playing with your bars, but at least clean your oily
fingerprints off with a soft cloth and rubbing alcohol before you put them away. The bars stack a whole lot easier and take up considerably less space
without those annoying sheaths, too...

After all, we're not talking about super-expensive, low-mintage coins in mint capsules here. We're talking about generic silver bars. IMO, no need to
treat them like we're dealing with a two week-old, 1 kilo proof gold Chinese Panda...
 
Schalke04: for those that want to remove the patina (tarnish). Lemon juice

Don't forget that lemon juice is acidic so it will react with silver.
 
Don't throw those wrappers out.
The way things are ATM the plastic may be worth more than the silver soon. :lol:
 
@scha
Before experimenting...place the coin on a linen cloth and fold them...will it scratch the coin?
Thanks for sharing btw
LD
 
goanna said:
Schalke04: for those that want to remove the patina (tarnish). Lemon juice

Don't forget that lemon juice is acidic so it will react with silver.
Click to expand...

Good point. To an extent this is what you want. Silver will only react after a long time, the grime, patina or dirt much much quicker. If Silver has been damaged by say an unwanted chemical reaction like verdigris (the green stuff - more common with Copper) it will be removed, actually you have to remove it as it grows and infects other items. This will then clearly show any imperfections.

This can be caused by the plastic around the silver if it is not solvent free. The question raised initially.

I have cleaned abused silver items that were very dirty for longer than 3 days and they come out like new. I have also had mishandled proof coins (like the OPM or Geiger Silver Rounds) that I had to clean to stop further degradation come out as minted.

You should obviously not leave your silver in the bath while you are on holidays, regular inspection is necessary and the colour of the bath gives further indication. This is only for very dirty items, most of us would only need a few hours to remove the patina.
 
Silver bullitt said:
Don't throw those wrappers out.
The way things are ATM the plastic may be worth more than the silver soon. :lol:
Click to expand...

May be discard the silver and stack the wrappers instead?
 
Lunardragon said:
@scha
Before experimenting...place the coin on a linen cloth and fold them...will it scratch the coin?
Thanks for sharing btw
LD
Click to expand...
Another good question

Try this with a less valuable coin preferably very dirty may be a 50cent silver. Almost all of those on offer as "shiny" "no tarnish" etc. have been cleaned at some stage. I had some still smell of perfumed soap. The effects are amazing.

Any rubbing will be abrasive, even a cloth. You may have heard about these super sharp knives that actually blunt even when just air circulates around them.

My response was to give an easy quick way that is affecting the silver the least and can be done by anyone without great fuss.

It does not matter wether you actually handle the item with your bare hands before the procedure as all chemicals that could affect the silvers appearance are removed. Ideally you should wash the item after the bath and soda with distilled water not running tap water. As I said it is a very problematic issue and the question is how far you are willing to go. If you have a very rare bar that demands a high premium you may very well go to extremes to bring it back to mint condition. However the more you go into detail the more tedious it becomes and mostly is not necessary.

I take the items after the bath and carefully place them on soft Egyptian cotton (80% of the weight of most cotton products sold today is chemicals not cotton!). Instead of rubbing I fold the cotton over and slightly press from all sides to soak up the liquid - no rubbing to not scratch the surface (even the cloth will scratch). I then let them dry naturally for a few hours. I then place the items in capsules (right size is important) or hard plastic containers with cork layers between the bullion and wedge the space between container and bar (no movement). Cork is for free if you keep some after you had a few bubblies or wine. Cork is not Cork, the good stuff comes from Portugal and the new imitations are rubbish - again how far do you want to go?

Please bear in mind that I am not a friend of cleaning silver unless necessary, this is for those that want mint condition items or where an item needs cleaning to stop degradation. To re-establish a patina will take in most cases 20 years or more. This will become more of an issue in the years to come as the not solvent free plastic is reacting with the silver.

Here a link for cheap quality Lighthouse capsules: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10-New-L...2?pt=UK_Coins_Supplies_RL&hash=item19b0c163fe
 
Thanks for all the advice! I think I'm going to keep then in the plastic and keep a watchful eye on them. Since I'm in this for the long haul, once the plastic cracks or the bars begin to tarnish, I will release them to the wilds! :D

Thank you all again
 
Are you stacking plastic or silver? Be a real stacker and stack only real silver, feel the touch of pure silver in your hands, smell it and feel it...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top