Regarding the Minting of New Silver Coins/Rounds

[Silver Pauper]

This post is response to the new Silver Stackers XAG Shillings. I was going to post this as reply in that thread then thought it unfair to those involved in the project. This is in no way a judgement against goldpelican and his hard work and effort but rather just my thoughts provoked by the discussion of the new shilling and the cost and effort need to mint a new coin or round.

If we are going to all this expense and effort can we break out of the envelope and produce something new and innovative... no offense... but it seems there are few coin designers/underwriters that are really ready to think out of the box and push concepts and designs forward.

The Silver Bullet/Silver Shield coin is hopefully a break way from Buffalo's, Liberty's, and any number of other rewarmed coin designs. The one thing I do not like about this coin is the fringe/conspiracy link... but the design is original and fresh.

I know that everyone has their own personal taste on the subject... and I am surely not condemning or putting a damper on all the hard work that goldpelican has put into this project... just really have enough buffalo's, kangaroo's, liberties, flowers, leaves, animals, etc and etc at the moment.

There seems to be enough critical mass here on SilverStackers that a whole series of denominational coins could be designed and sold that have no link to a central government, but would have the reputation and clout to be used as a currency in decades to come. As a collective effort this could be a successful I am sure.

I would love to see a series of coins made along the lines of trades and services... skill sets that will become more and more important as the purchasing power of fiat is eroded... mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, nurses, doctors, bakers, butchers, farmers, etc and etc... coins that represent the real people that hold the fabric of society together.

Move from ounces to grams... that is a left over from the imperial days... so a 5gr representing the produce of a veggie farmer or the products of a baker... 10gr that represents tools of a tailor or cobbler or butcher... 20gr representing the tools of a mechanic or plumber... 50 gr representing the nursing profession or a doctor... 100gr showing the tools of a carpenter/builder...

Think along the lines of what you could buy for what... 5gr pieces would buy your veggies or bread for the week... you may need to pay the cobbler or tailor in 10gr coins to repair your work boots or alter your suit... a couple of 20gr coins should cover the cost of fixing your car or unclogging the toilet... you may need to pay the builder or carpenter in 100gr coins for the new addition or veranda... just thinking out loud...

I know that ideas are like ears and all of us have two of them and both are different... just my 1gr worth!

 

[Jislizard]

Well I have always been for denominations in grams rather than dollars.

As to designs, there are plenty of them out there you can pretty much find anything on a coin from a hedgehog to the surface of the moon.

The Goldstackers rounds bring currency back in a full circle.

We used to have silver coins with these designs, then we lost our way with the base metals and unbacked currency. These rounds are the bridge between what we used to have and what we want to have again. The rubbish in the middle is just a 50 year blip!

 

[Jislizard]

I won't go into the problems surrounding valuing someone else's work, as long as we can all agree that the 200g coin has a picture of an Administration Officer on it I am happy

 

[goldpelican]

Move from ounces to grams... that is a left over from the imperial days...

XAG is the ISO 4217 currency code for silver - same standard that delineates currency designators such as AUD, USD, EUR, CNY etc.

There's no equivalent for silver grams.

can we break out of the envelope and produce something new and innovative

Thought that is what we were doing with an XAG denomination.

 

[Jislizard]

Move from ounces to grams... that is a left over from the imperial days...

...as is America apparently, more people use ounces in America than grams in Australia.

Grams is a very Euro-centric view anyway, there are lots of other units of measurement.

You also need to make sure that you do not start issuing anything that could be used as currency, as most governments do not like that, they hate the competition. If you haven't already come across NORFED and the Liberty Dollar it would be worth reading up on it.

It would also be a good reminder to Gold Pelican if he wishes to avoid confiscation of metals and time in prison. :|

 

[Silver Pauper]

Let me clarify a few things...

I am not talking about making a bunch of new numi coins... and this is why goldpelican's project provoked this discussion...

GP is breaking the envelope from different direction... to denominate with XAG... using an internationally recognized currency code(I did not know there was not a code for silver grams) for a bullion coin, representing a unit of value... actually very forward thinking in my opinion.

My thoughts were along the lines of the production of denominations of coins... bullion coins... coins meant for circulation... not for collector... that could be practically and usefully used for trade.

So forget grams... use XAG as the base denomination... do fractionals and multiples... but the real crux of my post was to make the coins represent the common people... their tools, trades, professions, services... with innovative and fresh designs.

 

[Jislizard]

Do any of those trades still exist?

I thought we had outsourced most of them!

With regards to putting innovative and fresh design on the coins, they still have to appeal to collectors, as it stands you can't issue your own currency so the only market is us really. Stackers and Collectors.

Community/alternative/complimentry currencies similar to what you are describing already exist, check out AOCS, the American Open Currency Standard which is about the only one left backed by intrinsic value.

It's not that it hasn't been tried before, it's just that it has been tried and failed when the Government took notice.

 

[Silver Pauper]

[You also need to make sure that you do not start issuing anything that could be used as currency, as most governments do not like that, they hate the competition. If you haven't already come across NORFED and the Liberty Dollar it would be worth reading up on it.

It would also be a good reminder to Gold Pelican if he wishes to avoid confiscation of metals and time in prison. :|

Definitely something to remember.

What I am proposing is not revolutionary... Scottsdale among others is already producing silver bars/rounds in 1oz multiples and fractionals. What I am proposing is a sort of alternate silver mintage with a purpose, but with no connection or reference to a central bank or government. This would need to be a collective effort with a long term look at the future.

I am not a fringe dweller or a conspiracy theorist... but I would not be a stacker if I was not realistic enough to know that the world as we know is slowing, but inevitably unraveling. I was raised by survivors of 2 world wars and the depression... already in many parts of the USA, bartering or alternate currencies are becoming a part of local trade and commerce(Ithaca Hours is best known)... my family and friends from the USA are keeping me posted what is happening in the real USA... I am a redneck hillbilly with Injun blood... come from a town of 1400 people... so my family and friends are at the coal-face so to speak.

What makes today different from the 1930's is communication... inexpensive and rapid... so communities such as Silver Stackers can play a real role in assisting people to prepare and thrive as the world changes. Again don't present any dooms-day, Armageddon scenarios... I have heard them all... trust me... some of the people that I knew before the year 2000 were as far out on the limb as you could get... not going there.

So there is real possibility of creating an alternate currency with silver rounds/coins that would be viable for promoting and securing future trade between individuals and communities. Of course, these coins will only appeal to collectors and stackers at the moment and I was not looking replace a dollar or even represent a dollar... that was the problem with the coins you mentioned... could essentially be labelled counterfeits.

But minting a bunch of rounds/coins in a ounces/grams... mulitples and fractionals... with some cool designs is not going to get you in any trouble... as you know silver(and gold) is an industrial metal... just happens to have a history of being used for money and to be handy to store value.

You could even include some copper rounds as well...

 

[goldpelican]

It would also be a good reminder to Gold Pelican if he wishes to avoid confiscation of metals and time in prison. :|

One of the problems with the Liberty Dollar was that they encouraged spenders to try spending the rounds at unwitting merchants, and convince the merchants to accept the rounds at the stamped face value, dollar for dollar with USD. Essentially they were encouraging displacement of the US dollar outside of any established barter network.

AOCS have a little writeup along the same lines:

http://www.opencurrency.com/faq/how...uch-as-the-fbi-raiding-of-the-liberty-dollar/

The Currency Act 1965 - Section 22 here in Australia prohibits the issue of private coins:

Prohibition of other than official coins

A person shall not make or issue a piece of gold, silver, copper, nickel, bronze or of any other material, whether metal or otherwise, of any value, other than a coin made or issued under the repealed Acts or under this Act or a British coin as defined by the repealed Acts, as a token for money or as purporting that the holder is entitled to demand any value denoted on it.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1965120/s22.html

Key parts highlighted:

token for money - you can't issue a private round that has a face value in AUD (i.e. your own $50 AUD 1oz silver coin)
purporting that the holder is entitled to demand - one with any denomination (whether AUD, XAG or Hamish & Andy Bucks) that is purported to be spendable as legal tender

So we can't promote walking into Coles with XAG Intrinsic Tender coins and trying to buy your groceries with them and having an argument with the cashier that they should accept them - which is what the Liberty Dollar was encouraging.