Is it worth getting Panda's graded? If so where do you do that, iv heard of NGC but is that difficult because there not in AUS?
[QA] Getting Coins graded
- Thread starter SilverTouch
- Start date
Up to recently I've been a BU/OMP (Original Mint Packaged) Panda person, for a few reasons, but mainly because it has been hard for me to get access to NGC graded stuff.
The entry of people like Comeaux and Tamo42 might make this access a bit easier now
mmm....shiney is also a good source of info regarding this too.
I want to get my stack graded, the rewards for getting Pandas graded seem to be huge.
The entry of people like Comeaux and Tamo42 might make this access a bit easier now
mmm....shiney is also a good source of info regarding this too.
I want to get my stack graded, the rewards for getting Pandas graded seem to be huge.
yennus said:Up to recently I've been a BU/OMP (Original Mint Packaged) Panda person, for a few reasons, but mainly because it has been hard for me to get access to NGC graded stuff.
The entry of people like Comeaux and Tamo42 might make this access a bit easier now
The game has changed now. Slabbed pandas are the next big thing on SS I predict.
If you are looking to buy already-graded coins, the LBC investment lists are for you (click my signature to view the lists). Most sellers will ship to Aus, but you certainly have to factor in shipping.
If you are looking to get coins graded, then you can either submit through coin dealers or become a member yourself. You'll probably want to do bulk submissions to save on shipping.
If you are looking to get coins graded, then you can either submit through coin dealers or become a member yourself. You'll probably want to do bulk submissions to save on shipping.
I have also been looking at getting some pandas and other graded. I don't currently own any slabbed/graded coins. I understand CGS http://www.coingradingservices.co.uk/ are based in the UK does anyone know anything about them?
Or should i be looking at NGC etc?
Or should i be looking at NGC etc?
Dandan said:
Unfortunately I don't of any Aussie dealers that could grade Pandas.
Mmm...shiney has done a fair bit of research into this though. He might have worked out a solution.
For me, I'm kinda considering going direct to NGC. But I'm not quite sure where to start. I'm still learning the steps.
People like Tamo42 and Comeaux are probably the best people to assist in teaching us the process. I'm keen to learn
Mohur said:
I don't know much about grading, or CGS... but from the little I know, NGC is probably the preferred grading company (though people debate whether PCGS or NGC is better).
I think one of the reasons why people prefer NGC is that you can send the coin for conservation first to NCS, where the coin is preserved in some super secret method that makes it shine more (it really does... amazing before and after pics... really amazing), and then it is passed through the grading process.
Here are some observations and beginner mistakes that I made in the embryonic stages of collecting pandas and some experiences and information that may encourage you to look a little deeper into what grading company you will use in the event that someday you decide to have your coins graded.
One of the first things I believed is that I needed 70 grade coins so I when I came across two ICG graded coins (a 2002 & 2004) that were graded MS70 at a decent price, I bought them. Then as I got deeper into collecting it became apparent to me that nobody (at least in the modern Chinese coin world) recognized this ICG grading company. As time went on and I got more knowledgeable about Chinese coins, I converted over to NGC and sent these two ICG MS70's in for cross-over in which they came back as 69's. I also followed that with submitting all of the remaining PCGS coins I owned for cross-over to NGC as well.
PCGS nor NGC will cross-over any 70 to a 70 but at least my beautiful coins were now in a holder that was recognized and marketable.
In my opinion regarding modern Chinese coins & world coins, NGC is the preferred grading company.
There are several reasons but here are just a few
1. NGC was the first grading company to recognize the different varieties of pandas such as "small date", "large date", "serif", "short twig"etc. PCGS followed suit but much later.
2. Many people (myself included) prefer the NGC crystal clear, smooth face holder that allows the entire coin including the edge of the coin to be viewed. Yes PCGS has recently offered the edge view holder but it still does not offer as much visibility of the coin as NGC. I will post a set of NGC next to PCGS later to illustrate my point.
3. NGC is regarded as being more knowledgeable grading Chinese and World coins although PCGS is viewed as the preeminent US and coin grader. Recent world auction prices have substantiated this.
4. The CCF which has many experts, coin dealers and knowledgeable members conducted a poll of their preference and NGC was clearly favored 6 to 1.
5. A member who attended The Hong Kong Coin Exposition also posted pictures from the Expo and I honestly did not see one PCGS holder amongst 100's of Chinese coin dealers and 1000's of Chinese pandas and other modern Chinese coins.
6. One of the largest Chinese coin/Panda dealers (Panda America) in the US is exclusively 100% NGC. I have had many conversations with the guys at Panda America and they clearly believe that NGC is predominate Chinese coin grading company. I have had discussions with the Director of Numismatics at APMEX and he is also considering NGC for Chinese coins as they have had multiple questions on the matter. Four of the largest graded Panda dealers in the US are all selling NGC grading for Chinese coins.
7. In the recent CICF auction, seven of the top 10 world coins sold were certified by NGC. NGC STATED: The results were even more notable among the 50 highest grossing individual lots: 39 coins, or 78%, were NGC-graded. NGC asserts "The impressive showing by NGC coins points both to the high regard for NGC's world coin department as well the strength of the NGC guarantee, which is the most comprehensive of any grading company"
8. At Champion's Hong Kong Auction 15, on August 28, 2011, a 1992 China Compass 2000 Yuan 1 Kg Gold graded NGC PF 69 Ultra Cameo realized US $1,298,000. This sale set a new world record price for a modern kilogram gold Chinese certified coin.
Tamo42's good friend (badon) at LBC and CCB who I and many other collectors regard with great reverence for his knowledge of Chinese coins akin to Tamo42's knowledge, posted some great factual information a while back to substantiate what I am saying and also compared many coin auction prices as proof that the perceived "PCGS premium" was actually nonexistent when it comes to Modern Chinese Coins.
In the end it will be your personal preference of what grading company you choose to use for coin grading but the advice I would give you is to do some research before you begin your collection or before your collection gets very large.
As I have stated on several occasions there are some coins that you may never want to grade, some that are definitely worth grading and some that are probably more logical to purchase graded. It is a decision that you will need to make.
So all that I can say now is that with what information I have offered in this post, the experience building my own collection, the submittal of 100's of coins and buying graded coins from some of the largest private Chinese coin dealers in the US it is apparent to me that NGC is the premier Chinese Coin Grading company, not just my opinion but the majority of the dealers I have been associated with.
The decision to grade or not to grade is another topic ...
comeaux
One of the first things I believed is that I needed 70 grade coins so I when I came across two ICG graded coins (a 2002 & 2004) that were graded MS70 at a decent price, I bought them. Then as I got deeper into collecting it became apparent to me that nobody (at least in the modern Chinese coin world) recognized this ICG grading company. As time went on and I got more knowledgeable about Chinese coins, I converted over to NGC and sent these two ICG MS70's in for cross-over in which they came back as 69's. I also followed that with submitting all of the remaining PCGS coins I owned for cross-over to NGC as well.
PCGS nor NGC will cross-over any 70 to a 70 but at least my beautiful coins were now in a holder that was recognized and marketable.
In my opinion regarding modern Chinese coins & world coins, NGC is the preferred grading company.
There are several reasons but here are just a few
1. NGC was the first grading company to recognize the different varieties of pandas such as "small date", "large date", "serif", "short twig"etc. PCGS followed suit but much later.
2. Many people (myself included) prefer the NGC crystal clear, smooth face holder that allows the entire coin including the edge of the coin to be viewed. Yes PCGS has recently offered the edge view holder but it still does not offer as much visibility of the coin as NGC. I will post a set of NGC next to PCGS later to illustrate my point.
3. NGC is regarded as being more knowledgeable grading Chinese and World coins although PCGS is viewed as the preeminent US and coin grader. Recent world auction prices have substantiated this.
4. The CCF which has many experts, coin dealers and knowledgeable members conducted a poll of their preference and NGC was clearly favored 6 to 1.
5. A member who attended The Hong Kong Coin Exposition also posted pictures from the Expo and I honestly did not see one PCGS holder amongst 100's of Chinese coin dealers and 1000's of Chinese pandas and other modern Chinese coins.
6. One of the largest Chinese coin/Panda dealers (Panda America) in the US is exclusively 100% NGC. I have had many conversations with the guys at Panda America and they clearly believe that NGC is predominate Chinese coin grading company. I have had discussions with the Director of Numismatics at APMEX and he is also considering NGC for Chinese coins as they have had multiple questions on the matter. Four of the largest graded Panda dealers in the US are all selling NGC grading for Chinese coins.
7. In the recent CICF auction, seven of the top 10 world coins sold were certified by NGC. NGC STATED: The results were even more notable among the 50 highest grossing individual lots: 39 coins, or 78%, were NGC-graded. NGC asserts "The impressive showing by NGC coins points both to the high regard for NGC's world coin department as well the strength of the NGC guarantee, which is the most comprehensive of any grading company"
8. At Champion's Hong Kong Auction 15, on August 28, 2011, a 1992 China Compass 2000 Yuan 1 Kg Gold graded NGC PF 69 Ultra Cameo realized US $1,298,000. This sale set a new world record price for a modern kilogram gold Chinese certified coin.
Tamo42's good friend (badon) at LBC and CCB who I and many other collectors regard with great reverence for his knowledge of Chinese coins akin to Tamo42's knowledge, posted some great factual information a while back to substantiate what I am saying and also compared many coin auction prices as proof that the perceived "PCGS premium" was actually nonexistent when it comes to Modern Chinese Coins.
In the end it will be your personal preference of what grading company you choose to use for coin grading but the advice I would give you is to do some research before you begin your collection or before your collection gets very large.
As I have stated on several occasions there are some coins that you may never want to grade, some that are definitely worth grading and some that are probably more logical to purchase graded. It is a decision that you will need to make.
So all that I can say now is that with what information I have offered in this post, the experience building my own collection, the submittal of 100's of coins and buying graded coins from some of the largest private Chinese coin dealers in the US it is apparent to me that NGC is the premier Chinese Coin Grading company, not just my opinion but the majority of the dealers I have been associated with.
The decision to grade or not to grade is another topic ...
comeaux
To substantiate NGC's reputation in Modern Chinese Coins here are some NGC graded coins that sold at auction about 6 weeks ago
8-26-2011 HONG KONG AUCTION NGC Graded Chinese Coins
CHINA 1992 2000 Yuan 1Kg Gold Compass NGC PF69 UC $1,298,000
CHINA 1992 2000 Yuan 1Kg Gold LunarCycle NGC PF69 $790,600
CHINA 1993 1500 Yuan 20 Oz Gold Peacocks NGC PF69 $401,200
CHINA 1995 1000 Yuan 12 Oz Gold Pig NGC PF69 UC $141,600
CHINA 1995 500 Yuan 5 Oz Gold Unicorn NGC PF69 $129,800
These 5 NGC Graded Chinese coins sold for combined = $2,761,000
Melt value of these 5 NGC Graded Chinese coins = $182,349
*** Disclaimer I am not insinuating if your coin is NGC graded or Chinese it will be worth millions ***
8-26-2011 HONG KONG AUCTION NGC Graded Chinese Coins
CHINA 1992 2000 Yuan 1Kg Gold Compass NGC PF69 UC $1,298,000
CHINA 1992 2000 Yuan 1Kg Gold LunarCycle NGC PF69 $790,600
CHINA 1993 1500 Yuan 20 Oz Gold Peacocks NGC PF69 $401,200
CHINA 1995 1000 Yuan 12 Oz Gold Pig NGC PF69 UC $141,600
CHINA 1995 500 Yuan 5 Oz Gold Unicorn NGC PF69 $129,800
These 5 NGC Graded Chinese coins sold for combined = $2,761,000
Melt value of these 5 NGC Graded Chinese coins = $182,349
*** Disclaimer I am not insinuating if your coin is NGC graded or Chinese it will be worth millions ***
comeaux said:
WOOOOOOOOOOW
i want the top oneI want to grade my bears.
I am thinking of sending 50 over but don't know how to get them there and back at a decent price.
Was wondering if
A. Somebody knows the answer to shipping. I was thinking forgetex but don't know what extra they will try to charge. Think Gst on something you own as they come back to Aust.
B. Anybody interested in sending coins as a group to reduce shipping costs. Not sure how to work this as if we all want to grade the same coins, how do we keep track of the individual coins as they are graded.
Willing to listen to options.
I am thinking of sending 50 over but don't know how to get them there and back at a decent price.
Was wondering if
A. Somebody knows the answer to shipping. I was thinking forgetex but don't know what extra they will try to charge. Think Gst on something you own as they come back to Aust.
B. Anybody interested in sending coins as a group to reduce shipping costs. Not sure how to work this as if we all want to grade the same coins, how do we keep track of the individual coins as they are graded.
Willing to listen to options.
The grading cost is a known at $22.50 for conservation/grading which I personally believe is logical for 2010 coins and earlier ... but of course that is a matter of opinion.
The shipping cost should not be too much a problem I wouldn't believe as I just sent a package to Australia on more of a "priority" shipment and it was only $19 so I'm sure there are much cheaper routes than that.
The only question is what the most secure regarding insurance is, I know here in the US that Fedex has a cap at $1,000 for cash/bullion/numismatics and USPS Registered is at $25,000 which is what I use predominately. I will do some checking today with USPS. Some dealers say they never use insurance as they view it as a big "Hey I am valuable steal me sign" but I always use insurance.
I would be hesitant submitting through a dealer unless you know them very well and they are reputable because there is always the possibility of the "coin swap" his crappy for your good although that is highly unlikely.
All that is required is one of you members to get a NGC membership and start submitting !
I will upload a completed sample form so you can see how it is done
One possibility on a test run submittal is you guys could ship them straight from Australia to NGC in Sarasota using my account number and have the return address shipped straight back to Australia but then again a membership is just as easy
Lastly what must be considered is that conserving/grading coins is a good thing. Even after grading a 2010 panda and you are at even on the coin or possibly under by $5 if you plan on keeping this coin for more than 1 or 2 years then it is worth it, if you are planning on selling coins immediately after grading them then it would be only logical to be selective of what you submit for grading.
The decision to grade will be a personal decision for each member as the reasoning for each coin/member will vary. For long term collectors I recommend it.
Good luck with whatever you guys decide ...
The shipping cost should not be too much a problem I wouldn't believe as I just sent a package to Australia on more of a "priority" shipment and it was only $19 so I'm sure there are much cheaper routes than that.
The only question is what the most secure regarding insurance is, I know here in the US that Fedex has a cap at $1,000 for cash/bullion/numismatics and USPS Registered is at $25,000 which is what I use predominately. I will do some checking today with USPS. Some dealers say they never use insurance as they view it as a big "Hey I am valuable steal me sign" but I always use insurance.
I would be hesitant submitting through a dealer unless you know them very well and they are reputable because there is always the possibility of the "coin swap" his crappy for your good although that is highly unlikely.
All that is required is one of you members to get a NGC membership and start submitting !
I will upload a completed sample form so you can see how it is done
One possibility on a test run submittal is you guys could ship them straight from Australia to NGC in Sarasota using my account number and have the return address shipped straight back to Australia but then again a membership is just as easy
Lastly what must be considered is that conserving/grading coins is a good thing. Even after grading a 2010 panda and you are at even on the coin or possibly under by $5 if you plan on keeping this coin for more than 1 or 2 years then it is worth it, if you are planning on selling coins immediately after grading them then it would be only logical to be selective of what you submit for grading.
The decision to grade will be a personal decision for each member as the reasoning for each coin/member will vary. For long term collectors I recommend it.
Good luck with whatever you guys decide ...
partyk1d24
New Member
Almost all my coins are graded if nothing more than to sanity check authenticity. I prefer PCGS, although for small orders NGC is sometimes cheaper.