PM diversification, should Platinum and/or Palladium be included?

[Harrison]

I've set up both an SMSF and separate personal account and continue to purchase within each with gold and silver.
I am concerned about potential for government confiscation in the event of a meltdown, yet with significant sums purchased it seems madness to stack this anywhere else than the mint's secure facility?
Are there any other methods within stacking I should look to employ in order to minimize risk?
One consideration is diversifying into the other precious metals?
Your advice is greatly appreciated
Thanks in anticipation
H

 

[Jislizard]

Not sure if other precious metals are GST free, or even acceptable for SMSFs, not something I have looked into much.

Not concerned about confiscation, bank accounts will go first before they start knocking on everyone's door after your gold, plus if it is a SMSF then you are accountable for it so it can't just 'go missing'.

You could try unallocated precious metals, no storage or insurance fees, easy to liquidate and someone else keeps it in their safe. Of course you have to trust that person more than you would trust the Government Mint.

Good luck with it.

I have unallocated in my SMSF and physical for my personal stack. If they want the gold in my SMSF they will have to decide which bit of the 1000oz bar is mine and then cut it off accordingly.

 

[randomname]

i hear so many people, so often, say that they are not concerned about gold confiscation.

why?

if you look deep enough you see that the financial data governments are putting out are completely fudged. they are lying to the public to keep confidence up, and when people realise that the entire system is supported by only confidence it's all going to come crashing down. and considering that it has been fudged since 2008 (it wasn't allowed to correct itself properly) this coming correction is going to be a doozie.

we already saw in the past that governments can and have confiscated gold. why is everyone so confident that this time around we are dealing with "nice" criminal governments and bankers who will allow people to keep the little they managed to get out from the fraudulent paper money system?

governments will soon be desperate. in geopolitical terms, western governments will be far behind the 8 ball in gold holdings compared to BRICS nations. they won't care about your savings or retirement. they won't care if YOU think it is wrong to take PMs off you. they will do it. and be prepared that this time around they may use force - IMO all these metals sites are being monitored and a database is being built of who has metals and how much. plus sales records from bullion and coins dealers will be seized.

i'm going to assume confiscation is part of the future. hide them well people.

p.s. in a SMSF you can choose to store at a location other than a bank or vault. i suggest to do that. then when confiscation occurs then you can have a boating mishap.

 

[randomname]

@harrison

in my haste, i forgot to answer one of the key questions re: platinum and palladium.

i have not looked into it a great deal, just started to recently.

i feel platinum is worth researching further and maybe getting some. these are some of the things i have found. (whether it's accurate or not i can'r be sure, i encourage you to do your own research).

platinum comes mostly from russia and south africa, both BRICS nations. the west produces about 10-15% of what these 2 do. with the geopolitical situation the could perhaps be supply issues for the west in future. also, platinum is supposedly rarer than gold, and has some industrial uses like catalytic converters. plus with the upcoming financial catastrophe everyone will be scrambling for the little gold and silver left, i feel that platinum will be the real elite and exclusive metal.

now, i have noticed little to no attention toward platinum. why? sure, it does not have the same historical appeal that gold does, but it is much more rare and was usually more expensive than gold. now it is cheaper.

following from the lack of attention point above, although i am a new member here i have been watching metals (and other) sites for quite some time. i have observed quite a few members who on the surface appear to be stackers and pro-metals, but then subtly introduce some negative views about them. i can understand them being cautious, but the negativity they promote is likely to dishearten many existing stackers and also deter newbies too. my point: there are (probably paid) misinformation agents whose job it is to distract and dissuade you from the REAL MONEY of gold, silver, and maybe platinum.

so my view, as someone who has spent much time watching, is that it would be wise to have a bit of platinum too. have your guard up, and dig, dig and dig further, because those who present themselves as your friend may in fact not be. i also welcome you to question my words and research for yourself.

best wishes with your stacking.

 

[Jislizard]

Gold confiscation has come up quite a few times on this forum, which is not surprising. It has been discussed.

It is considered a risk.

However.

There are easier things to do to raise money, taxes and giving haircuts to bank accounts and Industry Superfunds who would all be complicit in the theft. You could raise a ton of cash doing that with a few keyboard stokes. At the time of gold confiscation it was considered to be money, that is no longer the case. Money exists mostly electronically so if you want to get hold of it, that's the way to do it.

The job of confiscating gold would be a lot harder.

There are plenty of exemptions, jewelry etc.

It is very easy to hide, you need people to willingly hand it over, then you need people to collect it and people to watch over them to make sure it doesn't go walkabout.

There were ways discussed to make it harder for people to buy and sell their gold but at the end of the discussions it was generally felt that the number of people who had private stockpiles of gold were too few to make it worth bothering with.

No one trusts the "nice" criminal governments and bankers but you know they will take the easiest possible way to part you with your wealth, and the easiest way is to raise taxes, introduce more taxes and steal from Superannuation and bank accounts, everything else is too much work. There is a risk, but many people consider it to be a low risk, and you will get plenty of warnings as they start picking the low hanging fruit first.

PS: If you decide to move your SMSF precious metals by boat and they all go missing be prepared for the government to find someway of penalising you for not taking adequate precautions. Fines or jail time may well be used for things in SMSFs that 'go missing'. You are responsible for looking after them, if you fail in that duty then you will have to pay the consequences.

 

[Harrison]

Are there any different restrictions or tax implications to note when buying platinum or palladium within a super fund in Australia?

 

[The Black Ram]

I'm not sold on the argument for Platinum and Palladium. Platinum is certainly a strong commodity metal and may be worth more in case of inflation, but it is not seen as money historically. Palladium? I don't think I even know one use for it in a scientific or industrial sense, let alone a real market for it.

 

[-j-p-shmorgan]

I'm not sold on the argument for Platinum and Palladium. Platinum is certainly a strong commodity metal and may be worth more in case of inflation, but it is not seen as money historically. Palladium? I don't think I even know one use for it in a scientific or industrial sense, let alone a real market for it.

Both Platinum and Palladium have a LOT more uses than you'd think!

http://www.bullion.com/platinum/funfactsaboutplatinum.html

http://www.bullion.com/palladium/funfactsaboutpalladium.htm

 

[The Black Ram]

I'm not sold on the argument for Platinum and Palladium. Platinum is certainly a strong commodity metal and may be worth more in case of inflation, but it is not seen as money historically. Palladium? I don't think I even know one use for it in a scientific or industrial sense, let alone a real market for it.

Both Platinum and Palladium have a LOT more uses than you'd think!

http://www.bullion.com/platinum/funfactsaboutplatinum.html

http://www.bullion.com/palladium/funfactsaboutpalladium.htm

I understand there are a few uses like catalysts, but those fun facts were mainly targeted at Jewellery. Unlike Silver which has thousands of industrial uses.

 

[-j-p-shmorgan]

I'm not sold on the argument for Platinum and Palladium. Platinum is certainly a strong commodity metal and may be worth more in case of inflation, but it is not seen as money historically. Palladium? I don't think I even know one use for it in a scientific or industrial sense, let alone a real market for it.

Both Platinum and Palladium have a LOT more uses than you'd think!

http://www.bullion.com/platinum/funfactsaboutplatinum.html

http://www.bullion.com/palladium/funfactsaboutpalladium.htm

I understand there are a few uses like catalysts, but those fun facts were mainly targeted at Jewellery. Unlike Silver which has thousands of industrial uses.

Yeah, platinum is definitely more useful....

Platinum is hypo-allergenic. This is the reason why Platinum has so many medical and dental applications.
Medical uses of Platinum include dentistry, drugs to fight cancer, precision instruments and laboratory testing equipment such as Crucibles and Thermocouples.
Platinum is also used as a component to alloyed metal to make non-corroding replacement parts for the human body, such as joint replacements.
50% percent of the Platinum produced annually in all mines is used for industrial applications.

It has been estimated that, if all mining were stopped today, the world's currently available Platinum supply would be exhausted in one year or less.
Most comes from South Africa & there have been mining issues lately.

Definitely worth looking into for a little extra diversification.
I actually like it more than gold.

 

[randomname]

PS: If you decide to move your SMSF precious metals by boat and they all go missing be prepared for the government to find someway of penalising you for not taking adequate precautions. Fines or jail time may well be used for things in SMSFs that 'go missing'. You are responsible for looking after them, if you fail in that duty then you will have to pay the consequences.

yes, Jislizard is absolutely correct.

for the record i do not have a SMSF but i did look into it in great detail with the specific aim of holding PMs. i did not go ahead simply because of lack of funds under management and the yearly cost could not be justified.

normally metals need to be stored at an approved bank or vault facility. forget the banks - hypothecation. private, non-bank vault is better. but if you hold a SMSF meeting or vote then you can elect to store the metals elsewhere e.g. at home. normally insurance is mandatory but you can also elect not to have that. these decisions must be well documented of course. your SMSF adviser can guide you.

now to the real harsh truth...

if they decide to confiscate PMs, no matter what utter bullish*t they say to justify it (e.g.: it's a terrorist metal used by ISIS, we need gold to defend our freedoms and standard of living (because we sold all of ours)), IT IS NOTHING MORE THAN A CRIMINAL ACT TO STEAL YOUR WEALTH.

so now ask yourself - will you submit or will you fight to stop them from taking your wealth? think about it carefully.

i say that defending myself and my wealth is NOT a criminal act especially under those circumstances, so personally i could morally justify staging a burglary at my home and the PMs vanish. a burglary will not put you in violation of SMSF regulations.

are my thoughts controversial? perhaps. but if/when confiscation occurs then that last hope of keeping your metals will be available only to the handful who actually prepared for it. everyone else's will all be taken and they might offer you worthless paper/digifiat for it. they may offer a fair price. unfair price. maybe even nothing. don't forget, we are dealing with a huge criminal enterprise here.

and finally...

There are easier things to do to raise money, taxes...etc

yes there are, but where can that tax "money" be used? only internally inside the nation. when we need to trade with other nations they will want to see GOLD in western vaults before they even talk to us.... and that's where YOUR gold fits into the equation.

guard your metals well.

 

[-j-p-shmorgan]

PS: If you decide to move your SMSF precious metals by boat and they all go missing be prepared for the government to find someway of penalising you for not taking adequate precautions. Fines or jail time may well be used for things in SMSFs that 'go missing'. You are responsible for looking after them, if you fail in that duty then you will have to pay the consequences.

yes, Jislizard is absolutely correct.

for the record i do not have a SMSF but i did look into it in great detail with the specific aim of holding PMs. i did not go ahead simply because of lack of funds under management and the yearly cost could not be justified.

normally metals need to be stored at an approved bank or vault facility. forget the banks - hypothecation. private, non-bank vault is better. but if you hold a SMSF meeting or vote then you can elect to store the metals elsewhere e.g. at home. normally insurance is mandatory but you can also elect not to have that. these decisions must be well documented of course. your SMSF adviser can guide you.

now to the real harsh truth...

if they decide to confiscate PMs, no matter what utter bullish*t they say to justify it (e.g.: it's a terrorist metal used by ISIS, we need gold to defend our freedoms and standard of living (because we sold all of ours)), IT IS NOTHING MORE THAN A CRIMINAL ACT TO STEAL YOUR WEALTH.

so now ask yourself - will you submit or will you fight to stop them from taking your wealth? think about it carefully.

i say that defending myself and my wealth is NOT a criminal act especially under those circumstances, so personally i could morally justify staging a burglary at my home and the PMs vanish. a burglary will not put you in violation of SMSF regulations.

are my thoughts controversial? perhaps. but if/when confiscation occurs then that last hope of keeping your metals will be available only to the handful who actually prepared for it. everyone else's will all be taken and they might offer you worthless paper/digifiat for it. they may offer a fair price. unfair price. maybe even nothing. don't forget, we are dealing with a huge criminal enterprise here.

and finally...

There are easier things to do to raise money, taxes...etc

yes there are, but where can that tax "money" be used? only internally inside the nation. when we need to trade with other nations they will want to see GOLD in western vaults before they even talk to us.... and that's where YOUR gold fits into the equation.

guard your metals well.

USA has over 8,000 tons of gold. China just announced 1,600. Not sure about AU.....
You have every right to defend your property, and there will be no confiscation. :lol:

 

[randomname]

USA has over 8,000 tons of gold. China just announced 1,600. Not sure about AU.....
You have every right to defend your property, and there will be no confiscation. :lol:

do you really believe the USA has over 8,000 tons? unaudited for 50+ years and previous audits missing.

do you really believe china has only 1,600 tons? importing 1000s of tons for years, no update on holdings since 2009 but only added 600+ tons recently, stacking all local production 400+ tons/year.

i'm not here to attack anyone or make enemies, or even make friends for that matter.

but i say anyone who quotes those "official" figures in a way that presents them as being truth, and either not knowing the following facts or omitting them, their words should be treated with extreme caution.

 

[randomname]

ditto for anyone who quotes this:

"Manipulation..... If you want to continually subscribe to this idea then get out of precious metals. Only a fool would play a game that is completely rigged. As you still are in the game, I would say that you are not completely convinced of the manipulation ..."

i find it impossible to believe that someone supposedly so deeply involved in PMs can be so oblivious to what is going on. there's mountains of information and evidence out there. you just need to look and learn.

Gold Anti Trust Action Committee GATA.org
http://www.gata.org/node/14839

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/201...res-markets-paul-craig-roberts-dave-kranzler/

like i said, both here and other sites there are many who distract, divert and deceive imo. or blind.

anyhow, the platinum diversification question has been answered. bye from me.

 

[-j-p-shmorgan]

USA has over 8,000 tons of gold. China just announced 1,600. Not sure about AU.....
You have every right to defend your property, and there will be no confiscation. :lol:

do you really believe the USA has over 8,000 tons? unaudited for 50+ years and previous audits missing.

do you really believe china has only 1,600 tons? importing 1000s of tons for years, no update on holdings since 2009 but only added 600+ tons recently, stacking all local production 400+ tons/year.

i'm not here to attack anyone or make enemies, or even make friends for that matter.

but i say anyone who quotes those "official" figures in a way that presents them as being truth, and either not knowing the following facts or omitting them, their words should be treated with extreme caution.

Yes & Yes. USA>America.
Nuff Said.

 

[Stroctor]

Personally i'm not overly concerned with proving what i may or may not have based on financial records such as using a check or visa on a well know bullion site for the simple reason that there are no laws at this time that states that i cannot simply sell them for cash and by something else.

 

[Jislizard]

Are there any numismatic gains in stacking platinum? I have have a 1oz Platinum Platypus from a couple of years ago. It looks like the design doesn't change each year so there isn't much of a series and I guess there isn't enough interest in bringing out numismatic coins in Platinum, it looks too much like silver anyway. They did sell out the full mintage though for the earlier coins so there are people interested in stacking the metal.

It doesn't look like there is GST on Platinum but there is on Palladium, so I would avoid that metal anyway.

 

[-j-p-shmorgan]

Are there any numismatic gains in stacking platinum? I have have a 1oz Platinum Platypus from a couple of years ago. It looks like the design doesn't change each year so there isn't much of a series and I guess there isn't enough interest in bringing out numismatic coins in Platinum, it looks too much like silver anyway. They did sell out the full mintage though for the earlier coins so there are people interested in stacking the metal.

It doesn't look like there is GST on Platinum but there is on Palladium, so I would avoid that metal anyway.

There won't be much numismatic value, BUT physical platinum always carries a hefty premium.

 

[Jislizard]

I bought my physical when it dropped below the price of gold, it was quite exciting at the time, I haven't checked back yet to see if it is doing any better.

 

[phrenzy]

I bought my physical when it dropped below the price of gold, it was quite exciting at the time, I haven't checked back yet to see if it is doing any better.

Don't look now.