Physical Silver investors holding the bag..

[Royalewithcheese]

Once the Chinese government suggested citizens save in gold and silver then the cat was out of the bag.

They don't listen to commentary or care about SLV etc. They just want to put their taels into the family vault whilst they can and with inflation off on a run to 20 percent, they'll swap paper for metal until there's no more to be traded for.

I note that the Chinese general public are somewhat different from other countries - given the gov't has already informed them of the usefulness of silver and gold!

Is that really the case though?

I have friends over in China/HK and the general sentiment right now seems to be "Gold is expensive!" and "Who the hell buys silver? LOL".

The Chinese gov bought like 230 tons of silver in Feburary I think, but I think the general public is still into Gold not silver.

I agree. Culturally, silver means F all. Gold and jade are where it's at for them.

 

[Bulawan pilak]

Just read it too....sounds like the author thinks Silver is in a bubble!!!!!!!
Wondering if he is pro real estate....I have no problems investing in RE but wonder if he is worried that his housing investments will stop making money because investors are looking at Silver instead.

 

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

There is no clear line of demarcation between having a bubble or not.

However, there are indicators.
For example, the Silver COT reports show that small speculator long positions are more then double short positions. This indicates that hysteria is brewing and hence some people may call this an indicator of a bubble.

LOL

 

[Silverthorn]

Once the Chinese government suggested citizens save in gold and silver then the cat was out of the bag.

They don't listen to commentary or care about SLV etc. They just want to put their taels into the family vault whilst they can and with inflation off on a run to 20 percent, they'll swap paper for metal until there's no more to be traded for.

I note that the Chinese general public are somewhat different from other countries - given the gov't has already informed them of the usefulness of silver and gold!

Is that really the case though?

I have friends over in China/HK and the general sentiment right now seems to be "Gold is expensive!" and "Who the hell buys silver? LOL".

The Chinese gov bought like 230 tons of silver in Feburary I think, but I think the general public is still into Gold not silver.

Interesting. After experimenting with paper money for a long while China went back to silver as money and bled a lot of silver out of europe and help give rise to the mercantilist movement which in turn gave rise to Adam Smiths work, amongst others. Silver was really their monetary metal from my reading.

 

[fishball]

Silver was what the 'peasants' and working class used in China as the basic currency, much like the dime and 50c coins; Gold is what the rich aspired to get and with the rise of the middle working class they are all trying to aim for Gold and look 'down' upon silver or plain ignore it.

Also, the Silver available in China is ugly as hell, nothing remotely close to Perth Mint or even ASEs. Heck, even maple with milk spots are better looking than the stuff available over there.

 

[Silverthorn]

Silver was what the 'peasants' and working class used in China as the basic currency, much like the dime and 50c coins; Gold is what the rich aspired to get and with the rise of the middle working class they are all trying to aim for Gold and look 'down' upon silver or plain ignore it.

Also, the Silver available in China is ugly as hell, nothing remotely close to Perth Mint or even ASEs. Heck, even maple with milk spots are better looking than the stuff available over there.

They took silver in their trade with europe not gold is my understanding.

 

[bsides]

"Worse Than the Housing Bubble"

LOL LOL LOL LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nugget]

Silver was what the 'peasants' and working class used in China as the basic currency, much like the dime and 50c coins; Gold is what the rich aspired to get and with the rise of the middle working class they are all trying to aim for Gold and look 'down' upon silver or plain ignore it.

Also, the Silver available in China is ugly as hell, nothing remotely close to Perth Mint or even ASEs. Heck, even maple with milk spots are better looking than the stuff available over there.

They took silver in their trade with europe not gold is my understanding.

I read that the Medieval Europeans were perplexed why the Chinese would accept gold as payment but never make payment in gold

 

[Silverthorn]

Silver was what the 'peasants' and working class used in China as the basic currency, much like the dime and 50c coins; Gold is what the rich aspired to get and with the rise of the middle working class they are all trying to aim for Gold and look 'down' upon silver or plain ignore it.

Also, the Silver available in China is ugly as hell, nothing remotely close to Perth Mint or even ASEs. Heck, even maple with milk spots are better looking than the stuff available over there.

They took silver in their trade with europe not gold is my understanding.

I read that the Medieval Europeans were perplexed why the Chinese would accept gold as payment but never make payment in gold

Not according to the history I've read. From google.

http://www.learner.org/courses/worldhistory/unit_overview_15.html

Until about 1750, China's demand for silver served as the engine for world trade

 

[BigBen]

I wont post any segments of the article as it would be doing it injustice. Another 'top caller' who I have never heard of although all of a sudden seems to knwo everything about the silver market. He does make some good points though. Interested in others opinion.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/physical-silver-investors-are-being-hoodwinked-futures-market

I don't really have any interest either way but i am aware of a large biase around here
Don't forget that people are now pouring into SLV, i am seeing it everywhere, magazines, news articles, people talk at work ect., typical of a close top. Now history has also shown that when speculation reaches the feverish level, there will be a final spike high, lasting a short amount of time where price can double.
When an asset class doubles and triples in a year or two, it starts to get mania like.

I personally, see too much risk to continue investing, and enjoy listening to both sides of the arguement as a commodity begins to enter the 'tulip mania' stages.

My own knowledge in this area is so limited I would hesitate to comment.

But I would ask the question: "The folks who are hearing talk about silver at work and people pouring into SLV etc.... what background do these people have, who do they surround themselves with, are there knowledgeable people around them to facilitate their interest in silver. Did one or two folks start them off on the silver tangent or did they all come to the realisation themself by gathering information via sources of general knowledge or via extensive research into other sources?

Do they make up the average mum and dad, worker etc... ie: if I asked a butcher, baker, nurse, coles employee, carpenter, mechanic, engineer, school teacher, taxi driver, haridresser, medical scientist, speech pathologist etc... about silver what would they say?

Are the magazines concerned various popular men's and women's mags etc.... that someone with no financial iterests might be reading so that they accidently found out about buying silver?"

Isn't it these people that are representative of the general public? I don't know what the exact definition of genreal public is........just asking.

Like i said i dont really have an interest either way as i dont hold any physical, i only speculate when the right opportunity presents, such as two nights ago got to ride the way down with a good trade, as i will go long when its also right, only to my beleifs that is
I also note the extreme 'long' bias here, im just trying to give a neutral viewpoint and realistic risk warning, as the talk on forums and online articles suggests that everyone is financially immune to any price crash, and the extreme price rises in SLV could hurt alot of people 'if' it comes down in price suddenly. And the arguement, well im not going to sell i stack doesnt make sense? People interested in SLV who are scrambling to buy now are taking in my opinion, a much larger risk than they need be.

And yes, the general public has been talking about silver, and i have not initiated it.

Silver does not move in value, you move its value with the amount of money you pay for it, whats it worth to you? Please just take a step back and evaluate the whole situation, even consider hedging.
"I'd give me left knee for the perfect tulip"


<a href='http://metalprices.com/' target='_BLANK'><img src='http://metalprices.com/PubCharts/PublicCharts.aspx?metal=ag comex&type=V&weight=LB&days=12&size=M&bg=&cs=1011&cid=0' border=0></a>

 

[Royalewithcheese]

They took silver in their trade with europe not gold is my understanding.

I read that the Medieval Europeans were perplexed why the Chinese would accept gold as payment but never make payment in gold

Not according to the history I've read. From google.

http://www.learner.org/courses/worldhistory/unit_overview_15.html

Until about 1750, China's demand for silver served as the engine for world trade

I think the period you refer to is the effect of the 2nd last Ming dynasty. Come 1750, they were about 90 years into a new dynasty and then they turned isolationist.

 

[Nugget]

They took silver in their trade with europe not gold is my understanding.

I read that the Medieval Europeans were perplexed why the Chinese would accept gold as payment but never make payment in gold

Not according to the history I've read. From google.

http://www.learner.org/courses/worldhistory/unit_overview_15.html

Until about 1750, China's demand for silver served as the engine for world trade

The Power of Gold: The History of an Obsession - Peter L. Bernstein

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Gold-History-Obsession/dp/0471003786

PGE 159 & 160

The entire flow lingered only briefly in Europe and then continued eastward to Asia.
There is even some evidence that the outflow of gold and silver to the Far East may have
exceeded the total imports from America between 1600 and 1730. During the first 25
years after the establishment of the East India Company in 1600, bullion accounted for
75 per cent of all the cargo shipped eastward.
Asia turned out to be a sponge for gold and silver. Only a tiny quantity ever came back
to Europe. The reasons for this one-way movement are not obvious, and one is tempted
to agree with Kipling that east is east and west is west and let it go at that. But what
happened is not that trivial.
The Europeans may have grumbled about the loss of their beloved gold and silver to
the East, but their desire for the spices, tea, silk, and other luxuries of Asia was so
insatiable that they had no alternative. The people in Asia clearly considered gold and
silver to be more desirable than the tin, lead, mercury, woolens and furs that the
Europeans offered for sale. That the one-way trade continued for so long is perhaps
evidence enough of how satisfactory it was to the Asians, but another revealing piece of
evidence is available: the prices of goods in China, Japan and India varied very little
relative to the precious metals. If the process had been an unstable one, the Asians would
have refused to continue selling their products to Europe or would have demanded a far
larger quantity of gold and silver relative to the physical volume of tea, silks and spices
shipped out.

SNIP

Why did the immense quantities of gold and silver that were shipped to China, Japan,
and India accumulate instead of provoking a reverse flow of demand for goods from
Europe? Did the Asians of the 1500s and l600s have a natural predilection for the
Protestant Ethic, with its focus on the virtue of saving, a set of beliefs that most of them
back then had probably never heard of? Were Asians so innocent, or so neurotic, about
gold and silver that the sheer joy of ownership was enough to keep them importing useless
precious metals in exchange for valuable commodities that they could themselves have
eaten and worn? Or was a different set of forces acting upon the Asian scene?
One thing is certain: Asians derived much pleasure from their ownership of gold. Gold's
natural attributes of malleability, indestructibility, and dazzling beauty appeal to people in
any part of the world. The Asian rulers were just as convinced as Hatshepsut, Croesus,
Justinian, Abbe Suger, Atahualpa and Francis I that gold conveyed both a sense of power
and a sense of magical beauty.

Fascinating read

 

[Silverthorn]

Were Asians so innocent, or so neurotic, about
gold and silver that the sheer joy of ownership was enough to keep them importing useless
precious metals in exchange for valuable commodities that they could themselves have
eaten and worn?

Or centuries experimenting with paper money.

edit

Google had a interesting hit for ming actually.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...onepage&q=china silver european trade&f=false

edit edit

page 400 is the sort of thing I was thinking of.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...onepage&q=china silver european trade&f=false

 

[Scrooge_McDuck]

I was watching Marco Polo this afternoon on one of the digital channels. He had trouble grasping how the Chinese were using paper money instead of gold and silver.

 

[renovator]

I don't really have any interest either way but i am aware of a large biase around here
Don't forget that people are now pouring into SLV, i am seeing it everywhere, magazines, news articles, people talk at work ect., typical of a close top. Now history has also shown that when speculation reaches the feverish level, there will be a final spike high, lasting a short amount of time where price can double.
When an asset class doubles and triples in a year or two, it starts to get mania like.

I personally, see too much risk to continue investing, and enjoy listening to both sides of the arguement as a commodity begins to enter the 'tulip mania' stages.

My own knowledge in this area is so limited I would hesitate to comment.

But I would ask the question: "The folks who are hearing talk about silver at work and people pouring into SLV etc.... what background do these people have, who do they surround themselves with, are there knowledgeable people around them to facilitate their interest in silver. Did one or two folks start them off on the silver tangent or did they all come to the realisation themself by gathering information via sources of general knowledge or via extensive research into other sources?

Do they make up the average mum and dad, worker etc... ie: if I asked a butcher, baker, nurse, coles employee, carpenter, mechanic, engineer, school teacher, taxi driver, haridresser, medical scientist, speech pathologist etc... about silver what would they say?

Are the magazines concerned various popular men's and women's mags etc.... that someone with no financial iterests might be reading so that they accidently found out about buying silver?"

Isn't it these people that are representative of the general public? I don't know what the exact definition of genreal public is........just asking.

Like i said i dont really have an interest either way as i dont hold any physical, i only speculate when the right opportunity presents, such as two nights ago got to ride the way down with a good trade, as i will go long when its also right, only to my beleifs that is
I also note the extreme 'long' bias here, im just trying to give a neutral viewpoint and realistic risk warning, as the talk on forums and online articles suggests that everyone is financially immune to any price crash, and the extreme price rises in SLV could hurt alot of people 'if' it comes down in price suddenly. And the arguement, well im not going to sell i stack doesnt make sense? People interested in SLV who are scrambling to buy now are taking in my opinion, a much larger risk than they need be.

And yes, the general public has been talking about silver, and i have not initiated it.

Silver does not move in value, you move its value with the amount of money you pay for it, whats it worth to you? Please just take a step back and evaluate the whole situation, even consider hedging.
"I'd give me left knee for the perfect tulip"


<a href='http://metalprices.com/' target='_BLANK'><img src='http://metalprices.com/PubCharts/PublicCharts.aspx?metal=ag comex&type=V&weight=LB&days=12&size=M&bg=&cs=1011&cid=0' border=0></a>

Bigben i think what they are trying to say when they say they are not going to sell they stack is that they are in it for the long term & a price drop wont bother them because they will ride it out until it rises again its more like saving then a money making tool for some & in time the price will rise I think they have already stepped back & thought that silver is better than paper in the long run

 

[BigBen]

My own knowledge in this area is so limited I would hesitate to comment.

But I would ask the question: "The folks who are hearing talk about silver at work and people pouring into SLV etc.... what background do these people have, who do they surround themselves with, are there knowledgeable people around them to facilitate their interest in silver. Did one or two folks start them off on the silver tangent or did they all come to the realisation themself by gathering information via sources of general knowledge or via extensive research into other sources?

Do they make up the average mum and dad, worker etc... ie: if I asked a butcher, baker, nurse, coles employee, carpenter, mechanic, engineer, school teacher, taxi driver, haridresser, medical scientist, speech pathologist etc... about silver what would they say?

Are the magazines concerned various popular men's and women's mags etc.... that someone with no financial iterests might be reading so that they accidently found out about buying silver?"

Isn't it these people that are representative of the general public? I don't know what the exact definition of genreal public is........just asking.

Like i said i dont really have an interest either way as i dont hold any physical, i only speculate when the right opportunity presents, such as two nights ago got to ride the way down with a good trade, as i will go long when its also right, only to my beleifs that is
I also note the extreme 'long' bias here, im just trying to give a neutral viewpoint and realistic risk warning, as the talk on forums and online articles suggests that everyone is financially immune to any price crash, and the extreme price rises in SLV could hurt alot of people 'if' it comes down in price suddenly. And the arguement, well im not going to sell i stack doesnt make sense? People interested in SLV who are scrambling to buy now are taking in my opinion, a much larger risk than they need be.

And yes, the general public has been talking about silver, and i have not initiated it.

Silver does not move in value, you move its value with the amount of money you pay for it, whats it worth to you? Please just take a step back and evaluate the whole situation, even consider hedging.
"I'd give me left knee for the perfect tulip"


<a href='http://metalprices.com/' target='_BLANK'><img src='http://metalprices.com/PubCharts/PublicCharts.aspx?metal=ag comex&type=V&weight=LB&days=12&size=M&bg=&cs=1011&cid=0' border=0></a>

Bigben i think what they are trying to say when they say they are not going to sell they stack is that they are in it for the long term & a price drop wont bother them because they will ride it out until it rises again its more like saving then a money making tool for some & in time the price will rise I think they have already stepped back & thought that silver is better than paper in the long run

I understand that point, but so many silver collectors are fingers crossed for price to reach say $100 in a few months, how can that be logic when its., ahh well its fallen to $16 ill buy some more? You spend every day at work, for fiat, then pay obsene prices for SLV when its at this level??
Lol i dunno.
Each to theyre own, i guess we all convince ourselves.

"Listen to the mob"
hehe

 

[renovator]

dont worry i stack fiat too im not waiting for it to get to $100 im with you on some things like you said each to their own

 

[fishball]

Not a few months Ben, a few years...that's long term lol

I'll be riding the waves up and down but until it hits a tsunami at $100+ I won't be getting off

 

[BigBen]

Not a few months Ben, a few years...that's long term lol

I'll be riding the waves up and down but until it hits a tsunami at $100+ I won't be getting off

I wish you the best of luck mate :thumbs:

Im going to get my gun license next month, shoot me some camels and prospect for gold. Might short SLV 10 or 20 thous oz if we break 44.50 too.

 

[fishball]

Not a few months Ben, a few years...that's long term lol

I'll be riding the waves up and down but until it hits a tsunami at $100+ I won't be getting off

I wish you the best of luck mate :thumbs:

Im going to get my gun license next month, shoot me some camels and prospect for gold. Might short SLV 10 or 20 thous oz if we break 44.50 too.

The short term future silver price probably will depend a lot on what the Fed does over the next couple of weeks, probably best not to enter the SLV market at the moment unless you're really ballsy!

But yeah I'm in this for the long long long term since I'm only in my early 20s =P