Peter Schiff vs. Stefan Molyneux on Bitcoin

Earthjade

Earthjade

Member
Very interesting:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFcTJAQ7zc4[/youtube]

Peter Schiff is sceptical of Bitcoin and urges caution, argues not as good as gold.
Stefan Molyneux is pro the potential of Bitcoin.
Hilarity ensues!

Great conversation and both sides make great points.
 
Earthjade said:
Very interesting:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFcTJAQ7zc4[/youtube]

Peter Schiff is sceptical of Bitcoin and urges caution, argues not as good as gold.
Stefan Molyneux is pro the potential of Bitcoin.
Hilarity ensues!

Great conversation and both sides make great points.
Click to expand...

Thanks and bump.
 
Thanks, (watched half for now) I've noticed Peter getting more and more educated in regards to Bitcoins. The gold asteroid talk is hilarious.
 
My mothers middle-aged friend today mentioned she's going to buy bitcoins and flip them for a quick profit. Bit worrying when for a whole week she couldn't figure out why her iphone wasn't ringing... It was on silent :lol:

When the shoe shine boy starts offering stock tips...
 
Peter Schiff is definitely making an ass of himself, he doesn't understand Bitcoins, neither does he make sense talking up the IRS and the tax issues etc. etc. What a lot of rubbish... Bitcoin is a Crypto-currency, why and how can you tax people on the value of a currency ? And then he goes on about the same old song... Dark net, underground activity, baah baah black sheep...
What a lot of garbage !
Now we know, Peter Schiff is Shill !!!
 
Ultimately ..NO ONE KNOWS! There is some computer geek out there right now coming up with the next big thing and 'surprise' everyone! But always love a good debate between to intelligent people
 
domdolittle said:
Peter Schiff is definitely making an ass of himself, he doesn't understand Bitcoins, neither does he make sense talking up the IRS and the tax issues etc. etc. What a lot of rubbish... Bitcoin is a Crypto-currency, why and how can you tax people on the value of a currency ? And then he goes on about the same old song... Dark net, underground activity, baah baah black sheep...
What a lot of garbage !
Now we know, Peter Schiff is Shill !!!
Click to expand...

He makes perfect sense. It's a digital currency backed by nothing but a mathematically backed scarcity.

He never said anything on taxing people on the value of a currency. The same way trading currencies is profitable, if anything is profitable it is taxable.

Peter Schiff probably has already made more money that you will in a life time. Shill lmfao.
 
Peter Schiff probably has already made more money that you will in a life time. Shill lmfao.
Perhaps money is what you value your life with... good luck with that !

But just the same... what would you know about me ?

:cool:
 
He makes perfect sense. It's a digital currency backed by nothing but a mathematically backed scarcity.
One could argue that gold isn't backed by anything either. Bitcoins have properties resulting from the system's design that allows them to be subjectively valued by individuals. This valuation is demonstrated when individuals freely exchange for or with bitcoins. Please refer to the Subjective Theory of Value.


He never said anything on taxing people on the value of a currency. The same way trading currencies is profitable, if anything is profitable it is taxable.
He certainly mentioned taxing people on cashing Bitcoins for dollars... in any case, he spend 50 minutes to be-little, to tell all the regurgitated crap that many have already vomited about Bitcoin, and not once did he find anything to say positively about it... what a shill !

Ballad of a shill man

Because something is happening
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones ?
 
capt.sparrow said:
I'm loathe to admit that Peter Schiff makes a lot of sense in this discussion!
Click to expand...

I must have listened to a different interview. If bitcoin implodes it will not be bc its a Ponzi (which it isn't) or a pyramid scheme (which it isn't), much more likely scenarios-

1. People choose not to accept it in large enough numbers for it to be viable, and it is forgotten about
2. Governments find a way to stop it.
3. One of the mega owners cash out and crash the price to the extent that others lose faith in it.

The arguments of people like Schiff (who I am generally a big fan off) come from a total lack of understanding. In his recent interviews it seems he is unable to comprehend or believe that some people accept bitcoin as a form of payment.
He also can not get his head around the fact that the argument "if people chose not to accept it, it will not be worth anything" applies to every thing in the entire universe, not just bitcoin.
 
itching said:
I must have listened to a different interview. If bitcoin implodes it will not be bc its a Ponzi (which it isn't) or a pyramid scheme (which it isn't), much more likely scenarios-

1. People choose not to accept it in large enough numbers for it to be viable, and it is forgotten about
2. Governments find a way to stop it.
3. One of the mega owners cash out and crash the price to the extent that others lose faith in it.

The arguments of people like Schiff (who I am generally a big fan off) come from a total lack of understanding. In his recent interviews it seems he is unable to comprehend or believe that some people accept bitcoin as a form of payment.
He also can not get his head around the fact that the argument "if people chose not to accept it, it will not be worth anything" applies to every thing in the entire universe, not just bitcoin.
Click to expand...

I like Peter too, but he has struggled to grasp the Bitcoin concept. He continues to make incorrect statements that make him look stupid. He has improved though, IMO.
 
These guys just don't know when to shut up when they know nothing about a given topic
 
itching said:
capt.sparrow said:
I'm loathe to admit that Peter Schiff makes a lot of sense in this discussion!
Click to expand...

I must have listened to a different interview. If bitcoin implodes it will not be bc its a Ponzi (which it isn't) or a pyramid scheme (which it isn't), much more likely scenarios-

1. People choose not to accept it in large enough numbers for it to be viable, and it is forgotten about
2. Governments find a way to stop it.
3. One of the mega owners cash out and crash the price to the extent that others lose faith in it.

The arguments of people like Schiff (who I am generally a big fan off) come from a total lack of understanding. In his recent interviews it seems he is unable to comprehend or believe that some people accept bitcoin as a form of payment.
He also can not get his head around the fact that the argument "if people chose not to accept it, it will not be worth anything" applies to every thing in the entire universe, not just bitcoin.
Click to expand...

Did you actually listen to the whole talk??

I did and i can tell you that all three points you mention above were in fact raised by Schiff ... :lol:
 
Phiber said:
These guys just don't know when to shut up when they know nothing about a given topic
Click to expand...

Schiff definately raised valid points which should make anybody holding vast quantities of capital tied up in crypto sleep not so well at night :lol:
 
domdolittle said:
He makes perfect sense. It's a digital currency backed by nothing but a mathematically backed scarcity.
One could argue that gold isn't backed by anything either. Bitcoins have properties resulting from the system's design that allows them to be subjectively valued by individuals. This valuation is demonstrated when individuals freely exchange for or with bitcoins. Please refer to the Subjective Theory of Value.


He never said anything on taxing people on the value of a currency. The same way trading currencies is profitable, if anything is profitable it is taxable.
He certainly mentioned taxing people on cashing Bitcoins for dollars... in any case, he spend 50 minutes to be-little, to tell all the regurgitated crap that many have already vomited about Bitcoin, and not once did he find anything to say positively about it... what a shill !

Ballad of a shill man

Because something is happening
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones ?
Click to expand...

Umm Gold doesn't need to be backed by anything. Gold has a few thousand years of runs on the board, coming from all walks of life, on every continent as not only a valuable asset, but a store of wealth and a medium of exchange. So now we have established that gold has some sort of intrinsic value and of all the possible things you could back a currency with, gold is the least likely to be all of a sudden worthless......

What Schiff was referring to was a digital currency backed by gold. Exactly the same as bitcoin, but instead of a computer generating it with an "in built scarcity", it gets generated when a gold deposit hits the banks vault. Gold already has an inbuilt scarcity, that's right it's one of the scarcest metals on earth.

Yes he did mention taxing people on cashing bitcoins. Hence made a very logical point that once someone cashes their bitcoins they are back in the grasp of a regulator like the IRS. He did spend 50 minutes and every one of his points made sense. Why should he say something positive about it? Oh thats right, you are one of the ones that has a vested interest in seeing the success of bit-coin. And because he didn't say something positive he must be a shill to you.
 
Lovey80 said:
Umm Gold doesn't need to be backed by anything. Gold has a few thousand years of runs on the board, coming from all walks of life, on every continent as not only a valuable asset, but a store of wealth and a medium of exchange. So now we have established that gold has some sort of intrinsic value and of all the possible things you could back a currency with, gold is the least likely to be all of a sudden worthless......

What Schiff was referring to was a digital currency backed by gold. Exactly the same as bitcoin, but instead of a computer generating it with an "in built scarcity", it gets generated when a gold deposit hits the banks vault. Gold already has an inbuilt scarcity, that's right it's one of the scarcest metals on earth.
Click to expand...

I should point out that if you back it with gold, then you introduce a counter-party risk that was not there before.
One of the strengths of an online currency is that it is a peer to peer exchange for people entering into transactions at accepted values. Currencies do not need to have intrinsic worth - they just need to be an accepted vehicle for value transfer.
Currencies like Bitcoin don't need gold as a backing as long as governments can't print them into oblivion (which they can't).
 
capt.sparrow said:
itching said:
capt.sparrow said:
I'm loathe to admit that Peter Schiff makes a lot of sense in this discussion!
Click to expand...

I must have listened to a different interview. If bitcoin implodes it will not be bc its a Ponzi (which it isn't) or a pyramid scheme (which it isn't), much more likely scenarios-

1. People choose not to accept it in large enough numbers for it to be viable, and it is forgotten about
2. Governments find a way to stop it.
3. One of the mega owners cash out and crash the price to the extent that others lose faith in it.

The arguments of people like Schiff (who I am generally a big fan off) come from a total lack of understanding. In his recent interviews it seems he is unable to comprehend or believe that some people accept bitcoin as a form of payment.
He also can not get his head around the fact that the argument "if people chose not to accept it, it will not be worth anything" applies to every thing in the entire universe, not just bitcoin.
Click to expand...

Did you actually listen to the whole talk??

I did and i can tell you that all three points you mention above were in fact raised by Schiff ... :lol:
Click to expand...

I know he raised those points but you are missing what I'm trying to say. He doesn't have enough of a basic understanding to even have an opinion worth listening to. He will probably be right but not understand why. Like Armstrong says "everyone who has eaten a carrot has eventually died, therefore carrots kill people". This is the type of logic Schiff is applying to bitcoin.

Like I said, and for some reason you have highlighted I'm still not sure he gets that some people accept it as payment.

Schiffs logic - some kid has bitcoin and wants a car. He has clearly demonstrated in the interview from a couple days ago he thinks this transaction goes btc --> cash --> car.
After a few interviews he has now realised (maybe) that some car dealers will accept btc as payment.
Now his logic is "well the car dealer will cash out those btc so it will still crash"

A car dealer cashing out 1000 bitcoins will not crash the market (even though Schiff thinks it will). But if the Winklvoss' cash out 1,000,000 in a day - that will crash the market (and Schiff will say I told you so - even though his logic is faulty he is proven correct)

Hope this clears it up.
 
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