Perth Mint Online Depository

clear said:
you got it sussed..so are the dealers out business and how much toilet paper do they need.
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They need that "toilet paper" to feed their family, just like you do.
In a time of emergency you won't be able to buy anything with your gold and silver. 99.9% of the population have no idea what it's worth and will not trust it, they will think they are being scammed. Everyone understands and trusts cash, that's why it's the only thing to have in crisis.
So do you carry around silver coins to pay for stuff if the power goes out or the banking system goes down? No, of course not, smart people carry cash.
 
kramer said:
Everyone knows round fiftys... And most know their worth I think.
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Rubbish.
Ask 100 random people on the street what a round 50 cent is worth, and I'd be shocked in one person could tell you how much it's worth, let alone willing to take it in exchange for something.
 
SilverDJ said:
kramer said:
Everyone knows round fiftys... And most know their worth I think.
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Rubbish.
Ask 100 random people on the street what a round 50 cent is worth, and I'd be shocked in one person could tell you how much it's worth, let alone willing to take it in exchange for something.
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I've tried to buy them on Facebook before offering $7-8 each and the number of people who knew about them surprised me with comments.
 
SilverDJ said:
FlashInThePan said:
If one needed food and supplies then one would trade it direct rather than converting it into a currency through a dealer. I believe that gold and silver would be the choice medium of exchange just as countries will accept gold for goods in times of war over the output of a printing press.
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The only person who is going to understand and trust gold and silver trading for goods and services is another stacker. Good luck finding one in a SHTF scenario to get your groceries and petrol. No one else will take gold or silver, you can pretty much guarantee that.
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Have you observed the affinity to gold people have when they see it for real?
Would you prefer to be paid in paper over gold if your employer offered you that choice?
Do you recognise gold is the most liquid financial internationally accepted asset?
Holding some cash reserves is definitely wise including currency from other countries. Does it not follow that holding gold is not a similar play that has merit as a hedge.

I do believe gold will be better understood by common folk and if anything is moving closer to our current financial system that further away form it for a number of years now.
Should it appreciate noticeably in value relative to paper/digits as a result of financial shocks down the track, believe to the common folk out there as do central banks now know that Gold is the asset of choice to hold.

At the end of the day I just have a different set of opinions some of which are consistent with yours.
 
clear said:
Hi Bron, I don't know maybe not looking at the correct graphs - if Perth Mint spent $12 million on Property/Plant & Equipment in 2014 and then spent another $23 million on Property/Plant & Equipment in 2015, have sales increased over the last months , how come Perth Mint cant keep up with demand on certain products.
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Here's a recent aerial view of the Perth Mint. I'm having difficulty locating the new plant where the 2016 9999 Kangaroos are minted in. However, I'm sure a Perth Mint representative or Bron will be happy to show you where X marks the spot. Maybe it's under ground as seems to be no apparent space to build a chook shed.

9345_perth_mint.jpg
 
That photo shows probably less than half of the mint's size at that location. Keep panning right.
 
silversearcher said:
Here's a recent aerial view of the Perth Mint. I'm having difficulty locating the new plant where the 2016 9999 Kangaroos are minted in. However, I'm sure a Perth Mint representative or Bron will be happy to show you where X marks the spot. Maybe it's under ground as seems to be no apparent space to build a chook shed.
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I can't believe you actually think we are lying about building a blanking extension, I thought you were joking in earlier posts. Surely you must be trolling me and having a bit of a laugh?

13_pm2015.png


The red box is the land we own. The green box is the factory extension we opened in January 2003. The yellow box is the blanking extension, if you can find earlier google earth images you will see it was a carpark a year ago.
 
Ronnie 666 said:
Over 90% of the Perth inventory is owned by investors (not the PM), so when things get tight as they are now, what are they going to sell ? "Paper" that is the route forward the new plan to keep the mint cashed up. It is the Jon Nadler solution.
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Like I said, you don't understand how to read a balance sheet and no wonder you think Bix Weir makes a compelling point. The inventory isn't owned by the investors, it is our asset backing a liability. Things aren't tight - miners are still producing and supply us with physical. You don't understand that we can sell our inventory and we just buy replacement metal from miners at the same time. The only time we would have a "what are they going to sell" problem, and at which we would stop selling and just sit on the metal to back investors unallocated, is if we couldn't find anyone wanting to sell us metal. But last time I looked Australian gold and silver miners were still producing heaps of metal and selling it to us. I am assuming you are not proposing that all gold and silver mining in Australia has stopped, so who do you think they are selling it to?
 
bron suchecki said:
Ronnie 666 said:
Over 90% of the Perth inventory is owned by investors (not the PM), so when things get tight as they are now, what are they going to sell ? "Paper" that is the route forward the new plan to keep the mint cashed up. It is the Jon Nadler solution.
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Like I said, you don't understand how to read a balance sheet and no wonder you think Bix Weir makes a compelling point. The inventory isn't owned by the investors, it is our asset backing a liability. Things aren't tight - miners are still producing and supply us with physical. You don't understand that we can sell our inventory and we just buy replacement metal from miners at the same time. The only time we would have a "what are they going to sell" problem, and at which we would stop selling and just sit on the metal to back investors unallocated, is if we couldn't find anyone wanting to sell us metal. But last time I looked Australian gold and silver miners were still producing heaps of metal and selling it to us. I am assuming you are not proposing that all gold and silver mining in Australia has stopped, so who do you think they are selling it to?
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"The inventory isn't owned by the investors, it is our asset backing a liability."

Bron, I could not have summed it up better. In other words purchasing unallocated metal is purchasing your liability. Clearly it has nothing to do with buying metal! We agree at last.

With regards the metal supply - I am confused. The Mint has dramatically expanded factory space, machinery and personnel, yet, by the beginning of December, you cant produce the majority of your 2016 silver coins. In past years these would be out by now. These are the 2oz and 10oz Monkeys, 10oz Kooks, 1kg kooks and recently the 1kg Monkeys are gone as well. Then there is the Koalas ? and what about the shortages of 1kg and 100oz bars. This is the first time I have ever seen such delays. I wont go into the quality issues like scratched coins and milk spots. Bron seriously if you have the equipment, staff and space what on earth can cause this delay. I know from several sources that silver production in Australia is down about 30% due to the collapse of base metal prices. I never said it has stopped, I just believe supply is being outstripped by demand. I know you cant admit that because then, you cannot sell metal as you clearly explain. The move from a mint refining and producing world class coins to a mint that ignores quality and now focuses on paper scheme reminiscent of a casino is disappointing.
 
FlashInThePan said:
Holding some cash reserves is definitely wise including currency from other countries. Does it not follow that holding gold is not a similar play that has merit as a hedge.
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I'm not talking about a hedge, I'm talking about surviving and being able to pay for things when SHTF, a classic dream scenario for preppers and many stackers.
Your gold and silver is next to useless in such a situation, hardly anyone is going to take it!
 
Ronnie,

From the distributor side of the fence, what we are seeing is the mint cranking out 1oz coins like crazy to fill demand, particularly in the US - like every year before this one, the mint sends out a distributor alert telling us which sizes they've put on hold past the planned release dates so that they can focus on delivering core demand products. We sell bugger all 10oz coins compared to 1oz coins - basic production scheduling constraints - why have the downtime to switch production from in-demand 1oz products to the oddball sizes - this has an impact the entire way through the minting process from continuous casting extrusion, rolling, blanking, polishing, pressing, encapsulating, packaging - it's not just a five minute "let's change the dies" job. And as usual, sometime in early 2016 the overdue coins will make their appearance. I can't recall the last time in the past five years when every scheduled bullion coin was out on time.

Having walked the floors of two major world mints (the "sign this NDA and don't post what you've seen on Silver Stackers" type tours), you honestly cannot comprehend the scale or complexity of what goes into making this stuff until you see if for yourself.

1kg and 100oz are easy to explain - as gets done every time it happens - they are produced in a different location, and their main business is gold kilo bar production - when gold demand rises, silver bar fabrication just ceases - it's a minor part of their business. It's like iPhones and iPods - if the iPhone 7 release is around the corner and you need to crank out millions of units, you don't keep making last year's iPod model even if it's not discontinued - you make the bloody iPhone.
 
It absolutely has something to do with buying metal, as we buy metal when clients buy unallocated from us. This is what Bix and Ted Butler and the like just do not understand - Ted thinks there are two owners for each ounces as he doesn't understand double entry bookkeeping which was create from about 1300 AD to ensure assets = liabilities.

Your comment indicates you confuse raw material shortages with production capacity shortages, see http://research.perthmint.com.au/20...ing-a-real-shortage-from-a-capacity-shortage/ and http://research.perthmint.com.au/2015/09/14/who-is-the-player-and-who-is-being-played/ I am not sure there is much more that can be said. When the Mint has to pay out 82.5% of its profits to the state government that doesn't leave much money for capital expansion. We will probably always get caught out on demand surges as a result.

As to raw silver, we get most of our silver from our gold refining (silver is a by-product as silver occurs with gold). We have other silver producers who have not had problems. It should be noted that a lot of Australia's silver production is as by-product of other base metal mining and is outputted by them as concentrates which we cannot process and that is exported for processing by smelters. Do your sources of the 30% drop indicate what type of source? In addition, we have never had a problem getting 1000oz bars from London, even during 2008 which was much more extreme than today, when we were shipping in 20t a week from London for weeks on end.

Finally, we actually stopped selling unallocated silver way back in 2011 and launched pool allocated backed by 1000oz bars. If we were so desperate to divert investor flows into paper silver to cover up the huge supply shortfall, why shut unallocated and open up a product which requires physical 1000oz bars that have a public bar list which is audited?
 
Bron your explanation speaks volumes as to why I buy physical metal. I have said my piece. Good luck with your venture I will watch with interest as it unfolds (from a safe distance).

GP I understand the issues of different coin productions but this year is most unusual as we are seeing delays far greater than in previous years. Lets wait and see - I don't think we have that long to wait.
 
Not at all BB. I think demand was high, so high it outstripped supply. The issue is supply and production not sales. I am asking why the delay in coin production now. I realize the sales were primarily due to the 2-3 million kangaroos. Now where are the multitude of outstanding coins? Sales do not equal inventory as that silver has gone. We presume the 2-3 million oz has been replaced by new supply - if so where are the next lot of coins ? The 10oz and 2oz Monkeys are 3 months overdue ? and so on. By July they need to swap the production to 2017 coins.
 
SilverDJ said:
Snoopy said:
Silly me, I always thought if you don't hold it, you don't own it.
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Meh.
Backed by the WA government is good enough for me. And you can flip it instantly. Heck, you could even make a profit day trading big swings if you were lucky.
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Actually backed by the WA Government is not in your interest if unallocated.
Have you read the "force majeure clause"?
Here it is , and just as an example look up "1975 Australian constitutional crisis"
I am not saying it is not good, i am just saying IT IS NOT AS FAIL SAFE AS YOU MAKE OUT.

14 Force Majeure
14.1 Definition
Under this agreement, Force Majeure means any act, event or cause that is beyond the reasonable control
of Gold Corporation, including but not limited to: an act of God, act of any Governmental Agency, accident
of navigation, war (whether declared or not), sabotage, riot, insurrection, civil commotion, national
emergency (whether in fact or law), martial law, fire, lightning, flood, earthquake, landslide, storm or other
severe weather conditions, explosion, power shortage, strikes, lockouts or other industrial disturbance
(whether or not involving employees of the party concerned), uncontrollable delays in transportation,
inability to obtain any necessary equipment, facilities or qualified employees, epidemic, quarantine,
radiation or radioactive contamination or the effect of any applicable law, orders, rules or regulations.
14.2 Scope
If Gold Corporation is unable, wholly or in part, to perform any of its obligations under this agreement as a
result of Force Majeure, then:
(a) Gold Corporation shall give to the Client prompt notice of the Force Majeure and, insofar as known
to it, the probable extent to which it shall be unable to perform, or be delayed in performing its
obligations;
25 | PMCP Product Information Statement
(b) these obligations shall be suspended, but only so far and for so long as Gold Corporation is affected
by the Force Majeure; and
(c) Gold Corporation shall resume performance of its obligations under this agreement as soon as it is
no longer affected by the Force Majeure
 
bron suchecki said:
silversearcher said:
Here's a recent aerial view of the Perth Mint. I'm having difficulty locating the new plant where the 2016 9999 Kangaroos are minted in. However, I'm sure a Perth Mint representative or Bron will be happy to show you where X marks the spot. Maybe it's under ground as seems to be no apparent space to build a chook shed.
Click to expand...

I can't believe you actually think we are lying about building a blanking extension, I thought you were joking in earlier posts. Surely you must be trolling me and having a bit of a laugh?

http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/13_pm2015.png

The red box is the land we own. The green box is the factory extension we opened in January 2003. The yellow box is the blanking extension, if you can find earlier google earth images you will see it was a carpark a year ago.
Click to expand...

Hi Bron, I am a bit of a stirrer. Not trolling...As trolling suggests a sinister intention. And that's just not me. I'm just a average married working guy who likes all things to be a above board and honest. Thanks for the dimensions of the Perth Mint. I've only seen the Perth mint from what's on the net. So it's on my wish list to take a tour of the Perth Mint with the family. I'm still skeptical about the origin of the the new 2016 Kangaroo. But, at the end of the day you work there and why would you lie ? So I'll have to take your word on that. Going to Melbourne soon and visit Goldstackers. I may have to go in there in disguise, I'm not sure Goldpelican or staff would make me welcome ? As I'm not one of his favourite forum members, I just say what I think. I like to read and research a lot. You may wish to see this post as Perth Mint and you have made the headlines again ( you probably have already read it ).

http://sgtreport.com/2015/11/is-the-perth-mint-panicking-over-their-silver-short-position/

Of course it comes out of the USA, so they could write any BS. But, it may or may not explain a few things.

Take Care......
 
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