Perth Mint Online Depository

[SilverDJ]

The problem with leverage is that you don't know how big it is until it collapses. If there was so much metal to back these contracts where is it ?

Right here:
http://www.perthmint.com.au//documents/PABarlist.pdf

You jest ? That is a list - see no gold or silver. We know over 90% of inventory is part of unallocated metal. Selling paper is the only way to survive.

You can't read?

Bar List of Physical Metal Backing Pool Allocated

I know you want to believe your stacker fantasy that all pool allocated metal is just magical paper, but you are demonstrably wrong.

Show evidence that 90% of the Perth Mints unallocated metal does not exist.
Bron says it does, the Perth Mint says it does, and it's audited.
Follow the links I posted and actually read:
https://www.perthmint.com/storage/help/faq.html#can-i-audit-my-precious-metal
Follow Bron's link and actually read it.

For Unallocated or Pool Allocated holders, the fact that there is no specific bar or coin recorded against individual clients and the metal backing their account is pooled, it is not possible for a client to audit these types of holdings. Pool Allocated and Unallocated investors rely on the Mint's audited Annual Reports, which are signed off by the Auditor General of Western Australia that they comply with the Financial Management Act 2006 and the Gold Corporation Act 1987. The reports are available on our Annual Reports page.

In addition, Pool Allocated investors can view a listing of the bars reserved against our Pool Allocated balances on our Bulletins and Notifications page.

 

[bron suchecki]

The irony is that if it wasn't for people like Ronnie 666 stacking the Perth Mint wouldn't have the need for the physical working inventory to make the coins that backs the unallocated, so there wouldn't be any low spread/zero fabrication storage product for investors to buy. So maybe we should encourage a bit more paranoia.

 

[billybob888]

Thanks for sharing, i just signed up

 

[SilverDJ]

So maybe we should encourage a bit more paranoia.

You don't have to encourage it, there is already whole world of Kook's out there feeding off each other (pun intended)

 

[Ronnie 666]

The irony is that if it wasn't for people like Ronnie 666 stacking the Perth Mint wouldn't have the need for the physical working inventory to make the coins that backs the unallocated, so there wouldn't be any low spread/zero fabrication storage product for investors to buy. So maybe we should encourage a bit more paranoia.

Yes precisely Bron you could adopt your full Jon Nadler approach and just sell widgits. Yes no need for pesky fabrication just sell the promise....we believe you. Paranoia you make me laugh...I have seen enough of promises by corporations and governments to know who you look after.

 

[phrenzy]

When you move from selling real things to promises and leverage your assets for greater profit, you run the risk of getting unhinged.

I think what you mean to talk about is fractional reserve ratios and not leverage. Leverage = Assets/Equity; Fractional Reserve = On Call Liabilities/Physical on Hand. A business can have 10:1 leverage with 1:1 (ie zero) fractional reserve, the two are not related and they also don't have anything to do with turnover, which is what the 92:1 figure you see bandied about on the internet is actually referring to. That was part of my presentation at the Sydney conference and it seems I need to do a post/youtube on it.

I'd love to see a youtube video on it.

 

[SilverDJ]

Yes precisely Bron you could adopt your full Jon Nadler approach and just sell widgits. Yes no need for pesky fabrication just sell the promise....we believe you. Paranoia you make me laugh...I have seen enough of promises by corporations and governments to know who you look after.

So no evidence huh?

 

[Ronnie 666]

Yes precisely Bron you could adopt your full Jon Nadler approach and just sell widgits. Yes no need for pesky fabrication just sell the promise....we believe you. Paranoia you make me laugh...I have seen enough of promises by corporations and governments to know who you look after.

So no evidence huh?

Your list is evidence of what - a list of numbers. Agreed a list of numbers ? Huh

 

[Holdfast]

The irony is that if it wasn't for people like Ronnie 666 stacking the Perth Mint wouldn't have the need for the physical working inventory to make the coins that backs the unallocated, so there wouldn't be any low spread/zero fabrication storage product for investors to buy. So maybe we should encourage a bit more paranoia.

A working inventory of milk spotted crap.

Maybe you guys should stick to paper silver cos you sure can't manufacture coins that aren't milk-spot affected.

And like I said in my post above regarding the Perth Guarantee...You can't guarantee folk will get their metal.

The Perth Mint operates under a Government Guarantee, which is enshrined in Section 22 of the Gold Corporation Act 1987. Clause 22(1) of the Act explicitly states that "The payment of the cash equivalent of gold due, payable and deliverable by Gold Corporation, the Mint or GoldCorp under this Act and all moneys due and payable by Gold Corporation ... is guaranteed by the Treasurer, in the name and on behalf of the Crown in right of the State."

https://www.perthmint.com/storage/help/faq-government-guarantee.html

 

[SilverDJ]

Your list is evidence of what - a list of numbers. Agreed a list of numbers ? Huh

Oh FFS, it's a list of actual bars with serial numbers that are physically held by the mint to back up the bloody pool account!
A total of 6,126,432oz ($120M worth)
What part of that do you not understand?

They even have a stock of separate bars to backup the new online depository program:
https://www.perthmint.com/storage/verification-vault-download.pdf?product=P2
Another 109,974oz ($2.1M worth)

Now you have made the claim that it's all bullshit, and that by extension Perth Mint are lying and they do not have the metal to back up their pool and unallocated accounts, yet you refuse to provide any evidence at all to back that up.
Go on, show us your evidence and prove you are right. Because right now you are looking like a spectacular fool.

 

[Ronnie 666]

Your list is evidence of what - a list of numbers. Agreed a list of numbers ? Huh

Oh FFS, it's a list of actual bars with serial numbers that are physically held by the mint to back up the bloody pool account!
A total of 6,126,432oz ($120M worth)
What part of that do you not understand?

They even have a stock of separate bars to backup the new online depository program:
https://www.perthmint.com/storage/verification-vault-download.pdf?product=P2
Another 109,974oz ($2.1M worth)

Now you have made the claim that it's all bullshit, and that by extension Perth Mint are lying and they do not have the metal to back up their pool and unallocated accounts, yet you refuse to provide any evidence at all to back that up.
Go on, show us your evidence and prove you are right. Because right now you are looking like a spectacular fool.

The only person looking like a fool is you for your blind acceptance of a page of numbers published by the PM as proof that they have the silver, that they have title and it's not sold or leased to other parties. Clearly you have no concept of title and publishing pages of numbers is a very long way from ownership with clear title. Perhaps you need to study history beginning with the trials and tribulations of Charles Ponzzi. It is like your house with a mortgage. Do you own it yes you say - no the bank hold the title. Got it? You seem very uptight, perhaps tense. Worried about your paper investments. So should you be. By the way profanity is not becoming of a salient argument.

 

[SilverDJ]

The only person looking like a fool is you for your blind acceptance of a page of numbers published by the PM as proof that they have the silver, that they have title and it's not sold or leased to other parties. Clearly you have no concept of title and publishing pages of numbers is a very long way from ownership with clear title. Perhaps you need to study history beginning with the trials and tribulations of Charles Ponzzi. It is like your house with a mortgage. Do you own it yes you say - no the bank hold the title. Got it? You seem very uptight, perhaps tense. Worried about your paper investments. So should you be. By the way profanity is not becoming of a salient argument.

Zero evidence again.
Try harder.

 

[SilverDJ]

The only person looking like a fool is you for your blind acceptance of a page of numbers published by the PM as proof that they have the silver, that they have title and it's not sold or leased to other parties. Clearly you have no concept of title and publishing pages of numbers is a very long way from ownership with clear title. Perhaps you need to study history beginning with the trials and tribulations of Charles Ponzzi.

Perhaps you need to learn to read financial reports like Bron posted were you can find this information that goes along with the holdings list.
http://research.perthmint.com.au/2015/11/14/interpreting-the-perth-mints-financial-results/

and from:
https://www.perthmint.com/storage/h...ted-be-100-backed-yet-there-is-no-storage-fee

What is the Mint's policy on use of unallocated metal?

The Western Australian Government imposes strict guidelines on The Perth Mint's management. We are not a bullion bank and do not provide project financing or bullion lending/derivative services to mining companies or other entities. We do not lend client's unallocated metal to support short selling transactions or other derivative activities. Your unallocated metal is utilised solely to fund our operations.

Our business mission is to provide you with one of the world's safest locations for precious metal storage, especially in an environment of increasing global, financial and corporate risk. Use of unallocated metal outside of our operations is not consistent with this mission. It would introduce an unacceptable level of risk and compromise our international reputation as a safe haven depository.

But hey, even the Perth Mint are kind enough to say in SHTF scenario (Like Chian invade WA or something), physically own your own metal:

Does usage of the metal by the Mint affect my ability to collect physical metal?

No. Any use by us of unallocated metal does not affect your right at any time to sell or request delivery of metal in a physical form. We have a legal obligation to ensure your precious metal is available for collection within a specified period from the date of receiving a client's instructions.

We maintain finished goods inventory of our coins and bars at all times to meet normal demand from our distributors and Depository customers so you will usually be able to convert your metal within a few days of giving notice.

However, it is important to note that if you request a physical product that is not in stock, or a very large quantity, we may need to manufacture it. The lead times for manufacture will depend upon the size of the order, current demand and production capacity. It is because of this uncertainty that some customers choose allocated storage - as their metal has already been fabricated it is ready for collection at short notice.

If you are worried about potential delays in collecting metal in extreme circumstances, but with concerns about the cost of allocated storage, we suggest you consider a staged approach:

While the world environment is benign, hold unallocated or pool allocated - you elminate or minimise ongoing storage costs and fabrication charges.
When the environment becomes uncertain and risky, convert to allocated.
When the world is at a crisis point, take delivery of your physical metal.
This approach can save you significant amounts of money as it may be some time between stage 1 and 2. If you do not feel you can judge the shift from stage 1 to 2, or feel it may be sudden and unpredictable, opt for allocated as you are using precious metals as "insurance" and the storage fees is the cost of that insurance.

 

[bron suchecki]

That staged SHTF approach text I wrote probably ten or more years ago because people seem to think that one day we will wake up and it will be Mad Max when in reality the warning signs will be there for anyone who is paying attention. In the meantime you save yourself a lot of money.

 

[clear]

Hi Bron, I don't know maybe not looking at the correct graphs - if Perth Mint spent $12 million on Property/Plant & Equipment in 2014 and then spent another $23 million on Property/Plant & Equipment in 2015, have sales increased over the last months , how come Perth Mint cant keep up with demand on certain products.

 

[Ronnie 666]

Is Cypres or Greece -Mad Max ? Default takes on many faces and the PM and state government can default on loans and promises without a Mad Max scenario. Bron I do not know what you are talking about ? I am talking about a bankrupt state supporting a paper trade. I have no idea where Mad Max entered. Over 90% of the Perth inventory is owned by investors (not the PM), so when things get tight as they are now, what are they going to sell ? "Paper" that is the route forward the new plan to keep the mint cashed up. It is the Jon Nadler solution.

As far as DJ is concerned - you got me. Your case is rock solid and with that list of bars your investment is a rock. This is level 1 evidence.
Good night everyone sleep well on your paper promises.

 

[SilverDJ]

That staged SHTF approach text I wrote probably ten or more years ago because people seem to think that one day we will wake up and it will be Mad Max when in reality the warning signs will be there for anyone who is paying attention. In the meantime you save yourself a lot of money.

And you qualified it by saying if you want your metal in a hurry. But ironically for the hard core SHTF stackers, physical metal is next to useless in a SHTF scenario anyway. You can't buy food and supplies with it. And in the SHTF scenario, no dealer is going to give you cash for it because they'll want the cash for themselves.
Classic choice supportive bias is all too common among stackers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias

 

[clear]

That staged SHTF approach text I wrote probably ten or more years ago because people seem to think that one day we will wake up and it will be Mad Max when in reality the warning signs will be there for anyone who is paying attention. In the meantime you save yourself a lot of money.

And you qualified it by saying if you want your metal in a hurry. But ironically for the hard core SHTF stackers, physical metal is next to useless in a SHTF scenario anyway. You can't buy food and supplies with it. And in the SHTF scenario, no dealer is going to give you cash for it because they'll want the cash for themselves.
Classic choice supportive bias is all too common among stackers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias

you got it sussed..so are the dealers out business and how much toilet paper do they need.

 

[FlashInThePan]

But ironically for the hard core SHTF stackers, physical metal is next to useless in a SHTF scenario anyway. You can't buy food and supplies with it.

If one needed food and supplies then one would trade it direct rather than converting it into a currency through a dealer. I believe that gold and silver would be the choice medium of exchange just as countries will accept gold for goods in times of war over the output of a printing press.

BTY I appreciate the points of view of all have contributed here.

 

[SilverDJ]

If one needed food and supplies then one would trade it direct rather than converting it into a currency through a dealer. I believe that gold and silver would be the choice medium of exchange just as countries will accept gold for goods in times of war over the output of a printing press.

The only person who is going to understand and trust gold and silver trading for goods and services is another stacker. Good luck finding one in a SHTF scenario to get your groceries and petrol. No one else will take gold or silver, you can pretty much guarantee that.