Perth Mint mintage policy

I Agree Holdfast. Further, bullion dealers like Apmex, Gainsville coins, Provident need to be informed that they are misrepresenting the final sales as mintages and that the real mintages are infinity as in accordance with the new Perth Mint Policy. I am sure that will do wonders for the big kook coin sales. We as responsible coin collectors need to write to them and inform them of this and that their current advertising on their web pages are inaccurate and very misleading.
 
For Ron Currie - Sales & Marketing Director for The Perth Mint

So Ron, are you going to Re-mint the older kilo kookaburra coins?

Have you taken orders for the Kilo coins or the ten ounce Kookaburras?

Cheers

H
 
Hi Everyone
I just received this PM from Ron Currie. I have his permission to publish this so everyone knows what is happening.
Best regards
Ronnie 666


Ron Currie
The Perth Mint

From:: Australia
Registered: 2011-09-07
Posts: 14
Website

Hi Ronnie
We have resolved many of your issues, i am travelling to the World Money Fair in Berlin in January, where i am meeting our dealers, I will be discussing it with them at that time. I know you believe this is a simple process but i need to involve all the stakeholders.
Best
Ron

I work for The Perth Mint in the Sales & Marketing department. What I say represents official Perth Mint views and policies.
http://www.perthmint.com.au | http://www.perthmintbullion.com
 
it seems odd to me that they haven't bother making 2 and 10oz kooks and might consider reminting older ones. Why wouldn't you start minting the current year first. If people are demanding older versions bad luck.
 
+1 silverthorn

Also, surely it was/is the role of the bullion koala (with it's unlimited mintage) to soak up any excess demand of 1oz silver bullion coins?
 
Bullion Baron said:
"Ron Currie: We have resolved many of your issues, i am traveling to the World Money Fair in Berlin in January, where i am meeting our dealers, I will be discussing it with them at that time. I know you believe this is a simple process but i need to involve all the stakeholders."

Well it seems pretty obvious where the Perth Mint stands.
It has no interest in maintaining the value of these coins for collectors and investors.
It sounds like they are going to be asking their European dealers whether there is any interest in having these older Kookaburra minted before closing them off :/
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I'm not so sure. The mint probably has long term contracts with some of these big dealers and have committed to deliver e.g. the 1oz Snake privy. Now the difficult task might be to convince the dealers that it is in the dealers best interest not to insist on their contracts, etc etc. I totally believe Ron when he says this is not a simple process.
 
I imagine that now it is December staff will begin to filter off on annual leave. If that includes anyone involved in this issue, all of the grievances may not be resolved or addressed at all between now and January. No one should make any decisions on their stacks until more is known.
 
Bullion Baron said:
stackeract said:
I'm not so sure. The mint probably has long term contracts with some of these big dealers and have committed to deliver e.g. the 1oz Snake privy. Now the difficult task might be to convince the dealers that it is in the dealers best interest not to insist on their contracts, etc etc. I totally believe Ron when he says this is not a simple process.
Click to expand...
stackeract, the current query and response was in regards to 2oz, 10oz and 1kg Kookaburras (old years), nothing to do with privy snakes.
Click to expand...

Baron, then just replace Snake privy with any other coin you fancy :)
It was just an example and they might have contracts for 2oz kooks.
 
Please everyone note the 42nd World Money Fair from February 1 to 3, 2013.
Once Ron is back after Feb 3 we will be asking questions again.
 
^^^^
Why should we have to wait so long?

When actually will there be a cut off for these bullion Kookaburras?

In ten, 20, 30, 40, 50 years?

imo, it's just stupidity to have such a dumb policy to re-strike "BULLION" kookaburra coins!

What? :|

Are we supposed to let Perth's wholesale distributors select the best silver bullion Kookaburra kilo, 10oz and 2oz coins from 1992 - 2011 and then say everything is ok, :mad: "Well-Done" Perth??? :( Yes, just go mint those old coins and see how the market re-acts to you and those distributors that sell re-strikes! :rolleyes:

It's obvious, that "IF" Perth won't tell the market if they intend to re-strike kookaburra Kilo, 10 oz and 2oz coins, then that just goes to show how flawed the leadership is at Perth.

Harsh comments - I don't think so..... because you people at The Perth Mint, are the key to the disharmony, which can be avoided by simply declaring the mintages for those un-limited mintage BULLION Kookaburra coins.

Who in their right mind re-strikes silver bullion coins or proposes to re-strike older bullion coins? :rolleyes: :(


This isn't just a reflection on the sales staff, it's a reflection on The Perth Mint Board Of Directors thanks to a mintage policy which is un-workable for collectors and stackers.

Your mintage policy for Silver Bullion Kookaburra coins destroys confidence in the market; not only for your coins but also for those people who hold metal at Perth.

So when does the unlimited silver bullion tap get turned off Perth Mint?

You screwed us with the re-striking of all those limited 1oz silver kookaburras and now you want to screw collectors and stackers who for many years purchased kilo, 10 oz and 2oz silver bullion kookaburra coins.

Shame on you and shame on your rediculous policy which needs to be binned! :|

H
 
This whole re-strike fiasco has turned me off buying any numismatics. From now on I'll stick with silver bullion bars, and gold bullion coins.

From now on they can re-mint all they like, cause I won't be on the buying end.
 
Holdfast I agree it is a long time to wait. Fortunately, I can wait 2 months without buying 1 Perth mint item. Hell I can wait 1 year without buying 1 PM item. There are lots of other mints and products to buy. If everyone is concerned by this action by the Perth Mint (which they should be) we all can simply stop buying Perth Mint products until Ron gets back to us. Let us see how long he can wait if everyone follows their gut feeling and shuts their wallets.

This is not going away and the longer it remains unresolved the worse for everyone.
 
money money money full stop. PM want it and are using low mintage coins as bait as money extraction instead of making new dies and products.

i know if i am holding low mintage kooks of lunars in 2 5 10 oz and they mint more then its about money money money for me.

want to pi$$ people off hit their pocket book.

so they can do what they like doesn't bother me, i just have to change my stacking strategy.

i have not brought one PM product sense this really unfolded in the last few weeks and now just look at them as just another bullion maker, nothing spealial just silver with no numis possibility so bars etc... from one of 20 makers is fine with me.

if i want to speculate in numis will be buying old rare pre dec slabbed coins to fill that void .

no skin of me, and if others want to keep dancing with the devil then that's up to them, but get burnt enough times surely people with start heading for the light.
 
Ronnie 666 said:
Holdfast I agree it is a long time to wait. Fortunately, I can wait 2 months without buying 1 Perth mint item. Hell I can wait 1 year without buying 1 PM item. There are lots of other mints and products to buy. If everyone is concerned by this action by the Perth Mint (which they should be) we all can simply stop buying Perth Mint products until Ron gets back to us. Let us see how long he can wait if everyone follows their gut feeling and shuts their wallets.

This is not going away and the longer it remains unresolved the worse for everyone.
Click to expand...


How can I buy Bullion Kooks Ronnie if I buy at a premium now and then next year Perth restrike the 1kilo, 10 oz and 2 oz coins?

Restriking the 1oz coins made the average collector take a very bad loss, those coins had numismatic value, now they can be had from the sponsors here on SS for spot plus a small premium.

That's just not fair, but atleast with the 1oz Kooks the mintage is limited to 300,000 coins.

What about all the new collectors that came on-board since 2008?
What about those guys who collected a set of kilo bullion Kooks?
What about the guys who collected a whole set of 10 oz and 2 oz bullion Kooks?
Most of those people paid a numismatic premium for their coins!

If Perth re-strike those coins from 1992 to 2011 what will happen to the numismatic-value and... when will Perth declare the mintage sold-out?

Ron Currie of the Perth Mint has indicated Perth still has the right to re-strike coins if there is interest!!!

So that means, as long as there is interest, Perth could strike as many 1 kilo, 10 oz and 2 oz bullion Kookaburras as they like.

There is no TIME-LIMIT and there is an unlimited mintage.

So as long as Ron wants to sell them, he can and so can any other person who fills Ron Curries footsteps in the years to come.


No!

This mintage policy of, no-time-limit and no-limit on how many coins can be minted is a flawed policy!

The Kookaburra coins should have the same mintage policy as the Koala and Lunar coins which are declared at the end of each year.


Look what's happened!

Perth thought they could fly under the radar, re-striking the 1 oz Limited kookaburra coins, distributors were happy, they could make a quick buck and of course many stackers thought, oh great I'll buy new 1 oz Kookaburras at cheap spot prices and who wouldn't want to buy cheap silver Kooks?

But The Perth Experiment and covert sales with their major distributor in Germany has back-fired, because, now Perth have the ability to trash any numismatic value of the unlimited Kooks (1 kilo, 10 oz and 2 oz bullion coins)

Sure there will be happy people buying new large size bullion kooks, but how will the collectors and stackers who already have sets of coins or... bulk - boxes of coins that had numismatic value feel?

Is it always the case, that small time stackers get kicked in the goolies? I can take a loss too but why should I have too and why should others have to take a hit in the back pocket due to a mintage policy that looks like a train wreck for collectors??

Perth and their distributors have the potential to throw all Kook collectors under-the-bus!

Why would Perth do that when they can mint new designs?

Ans!

I'll tell you why, because the easiest way to make a short term profit is to give your distributors the coins they want cheap, so that those distributors can make a quick buck at the expense of their loyal collectors and stackers.

Perth don't care about the secondary market and as we have seen, Perth are looking after their overseas distributors.

Perth have also opened the door to the international community via NEW Registrations for Bullion.
https://www.perthmintbullion.com/au/RegisterToTrade.aspx

To full-fill that demand, Perth are taking the easy route, they'll just re-strike old coins to sell metal.

I'm not going to boycot any dang thing!

I'm going to ask Perth to come to their senses; I've tried to provide logical argument that describes why the unlimited mintage policy for Kookaburras is flawed, I've written enough!

The only people who can instigate change are the Perth Mint Distributors!

This is where they live:
http://www.perthmintbullion.com/au/About-The-Perth-Mint/Our-Distributors.aspx

The main offender lives here:
http://www.perthmintbullion.com/au/About-The-Perth-Mint/Our-Distributors/Distributors-Europe.aspx

If the Distributors who ask for these coins to be re-struck decide it's good business and if collectors buy the products that the distributors sell, then there's nothing, you, me or the average bloke can do. :|

I want to continue to support Perth, but I want their bullion coins to be closed off at the end of each year or atleast tell us a time frame the coins will be minted to.

H
 
Fair comment Holdfast !!

No argument from me. I was one of the Perth Mint's most ardent supporters and going back many years would not consider buying other bullion products until this year when poor management decision followed poor management decision and the Perth Mint as you aptly point out, threw their customers under the bus. I have collected non 1oz kooks and like many others face a significant loss so that the Perth Mint can make short term gains and look good to the ignorant masses. My feeling is that they will give us only lip service and the only defense we as a bullion community are left with, is our wallets. I have had just this week, email contact from several bullion dealers in the US asking about what is happening at the Perth Mint. Funny they contact me and not Ron Currie. Must have the wrong Ron. Seriously, this will no doubt impact the Perth Mint and will undermine what has been a fantastic international reputation. It is interesting how bureaucrats without a direct fiscal investment can screw up quasi-government organizations. Telstra, Qantas, Synergy are just a few that come to mind.

I also agree that the Bullion Dealers are complicit and even ones not involved in the 1oz scam feel they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. My advice to them is to support your customers, the bullion buying public. The Perth Mint will not support you when no one is buying your products.
 
Yes, they may realize some short term gains. However, I (and other like minded investors) will never buy another coin from them that has a premium to it. Why would I? If I have a winner they can mint more until all my premium is taken away and I am left with the intrinsic value of the metal. If that is the case then I should just buy for the intrinsic value of the metal in the first place and minimize premium. The premium is paid on collectibility speculation. In my case, I enjoy and purchase many premium coins. The Perth Mint will just not be an option for me for the reasons above moving forward.

I have been thinking about this and since the date on the coin now means nothing I recommend they release the 2024 dragon right away. Ridiculous you say to mint coins for the future....I say no more so than minting coins from the past!!!
 
Maybe that's what Perth Mint is trying to tell us, their products should not worth more than ASE or Maple Leaf and should have sales like ASE or Maple Leaf :lol:

Didn't buy any 2oz or 10oz but have 5oz(lunar) and 1kilo. Screw me once, shame on me. Not going to let them screw me twice. :cool:
 
who really care the numismatic value on bullion coins, we of all majority still like to pay "SPOT" ? :lol:

but reality is, PM is selling metals, that metal come out with whatever image on them is still the same metal.

so there are times when they come with milk 'spot' on top of the coins. but all is too bad.

clean out all the metals, whether you like it or not.

when silver price is low, what best to be done is still to place your buy order in order to get your metal on the CHEAP!
 
Stackers should be mindful that only Series one lunars have final mintage numbers posted on the Perth Mint website. Series two still has unlimited mintages for the 2oz,5oz,10oz,1/2kilo and kilo coins. Only the one ounce has been sold to its maximum. Their is nothing to stop the Perth Mint from minting more of these coins. If you think they would not do that, six months ago who would have thought they would have reminted the kooks. The Perth Mint has shown that they are not concerned about collectors but more about sales and profit margins and irrespective of the lip service, if they had large enough overseas demand and falling profits who knows what they may resort to. I don't think the S2 lunars under those circumstances would be necessarily safe from reminting. The Perth Mint likes to give the impression that it is a mint concerned with numismatic issues (hence all the the different coin releases) but when it suits them they say they are a bullion mint (if that is the case, why don't they issue just a couple of coins and sell them in their millions like the US Mint). If stackers don't spread this message as far and wide as possible then the Perth Mint may well decide to continue on this destructive course to the detriment of collectors as well as to themselves.
 
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