Perth Mint marketing rather than fixing the problem

Best thing for those who are not satisfied with the quality (which includes me) is to not support the product.

Milk spot prone, semi-numi silver bullion is certainly not the only precious metals game in town.


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mmissinglink said:
Best thing for those who are not satisfied with the quality (which includes me) is to not support the product.

Milk spot prone, semi-numi silver bullion is certainly not the only precious metals game in town.


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Click to expand...

Missinglink I agree absolutely !
 
Good to know Ronnie. Thanks for the confirmation that I'm doing the right thing by buying gold and not silver, even with the GSR being higher than normal. If I want to buy silver, I'll buy through ownx.com. I don't have worry about spots.

That just sucks Ronnie. Sorry you have these. But it really sucks for all of us, who really love these perth mint pieces. I for one am done buying from Perth Mint. I will now not even buy rolls after what you said. Thanks for sharing the pictures and the Intel. It is good for guys like me.
 
Fortunately I bought most of my silver PM coins early and prior to the ox (2009) this was a rare problem. The dragon, snake and horse were not too bad It increased with the goat and last year with the monkeys was pretty bad. 2006 Kookaburras were terrible. This year it is diabolical and I don't believe there are any Perth Mint coins in 2017 spared of this abomination. Agreed gold is safer in that you don't get milk spots but Perth Mint gold coins also suffer from minor damage which is now common (previously unheard of) and many of the coins have marks and scratches. The safe way to buy silver is bars.
 
Ronnie, do you have a 5x (or greater) loupe, by any chance?


If so, use it to check out the queen's hair in the affected area (in normal lighting) of your Rooster.

Then compare that to an unaffected area of her hair, to see if you notice any differences.


Would be interested in hearing your findings.
 
Hi Gatito Bandito
Yes I have a 10x Loupe and a reflective scope. The surface of the queens face looks cloudy - milky with the loupe. The hair looks ok ? You need good light otherwise its hard to see. With the scope you can see the milkiness

1302_170116223629787_-_copy.jpg


1302_170116222422218_-_copy.jpg


this is a 10c piece for comparison.

1302_170104175003681_-_copy.jpg


Obviously the plastic holder makes it hard to photograph as you get a lot of reflected light and the scratches on the case are distracting
 
Thanks for the pics.


I still contend that at least with your Rooster, it's a case of die fatigue.

Basically, in order to save as much money as possible, they're pushing the life of the dies beyond what they should be. And/or, improper maintenance of such.


This has been going on since at least the 2014's...

http://forums.silverstackers.com/to...k-spots-on-perth-mint-lunar-silver-coins.html



If you still believe this is actually milk-spots, see the 2 photos I posted on page 2 of this thread...

http://forums.silverstackers.com/message-987772.html#p987772

One is obvious milk-spots, the other is obvious die wear / improper die maint, to the max (I'm sure, or at least hope, they switched out the die shortly after the one in the 2nd photo was minted... Of course, the 10-oz Kook still passed QC with "flying colors" & went out the door like that).


It can be difficult to tell by an online photo or two, but I think your Kook might actually be suffering from both milk-spotting & die fatigue.


Of course, PM won't publicly admit that there's a problem -- and actually fix it. Pretty standard for many large entities these days.

Oh, sure... We got the "exclusive microscopy" images here re: milk-spots. That was a couple years ago. What has happened since?? You know, aside from things apparently getting *worse*. Hey, at least we got some cool pics of a problem we already long knew existed & how to fix it, right? Just sweep that sh|t under the rug, and if any customers complain, just put our fingers in our ears.


I bought a grand total of 3 Perth Ag coins for the 2017's -- and will be stopping there. That's a nice drop from years past. I'm surprised I picked up that many, actually. One had to go back for an exchange. A second developed a milk-spot in about a month. Yeah, that batting average sucks.


Not really sure how much $$ Perth is thinking they're saving, as they continue to put out lousy products, and as their customers continue to abandon ship, so they need to continue to further cut costs, and...

Nice vicious downward tailspin they got going on there. Surely the execs deserve another nice fat bonus...
 
Thanks for the comment Gatito. I am equally upset at both the PM for producing this crappy quality product (whatever the problem) and secondly PCGS and NGC for grading it MS 70. I have sent perfect coins to PCGS which have come back MS 69. How anyone can grade this MS70 is unbelievable. I have bought 1 example of a MS 70 for the full series of kooks and lunars and buying the slabbed coin on e-Bay is cheaper than buying a coin and sending it in. You always run the risk of a MS 69 however good you think the coin is. Now I am screwed as I bought these coins and as the e-Bay seller has correctly stated they are MS70. I have no recourse against the seller and PCGS - that is a waste of time. This coin is in reality MS68.
 
This right here is the main reason I stopped buying newly issued graded coins in volume. You buy, you store them away securely, coins appreciates nicely, you open up to sell and find an encapsulated milky mess has destroyed your otherwise smart investment. This problem cannot be a mystery. It a simple matter of determining what the differences are in the minting process since spots started developing and isolating those differences until the culprit is identified. I am sure the mint has their reasons for not solving this problem but it is not because they cannot...it is because they won't.
 
The Perth mint nor for that matter the RCM or the US mint have never made a comment about eradicating these milk spots or fixing the problem. Some years ago when Bron still worked for the mint they produced some scanning EM pictures which simply showed these spots and using Xray diffraction they confirmed silver and chlorine - silver chloride. We know that the spots are silver chloride which is white - so how hard is it now. They must use detergents, lubricants and other compounds in manufacturing - simply see what has changed since 2000 when there were no spots - i agree with mtforpar. There was some BS story that this was due to particulates and poor water filtration - that also died.

Since then no PM employee has made a statement? Why - I thought thy were investigating this and going to fix the problem - clearly not. This must be the slowest investigation of any problem since Bart Chilton investigated the silver price manipulation on the COMEX. That investigation proved no convincing evidence - yet it clearly existed ask Deutche Bank.

So it is clear the mints know the cause of this milk spotting but for one or other reason will not fix it. This story gets better and better since PCGS and NGC now offer a restoration service that removes 90% of white spots on proof coins and 25% on bullion coins? If they can do it on proofs why not on MS coins ? Didn't PCGS offer $50,000 to anyone who had a fix for this ? did someone get paid ?? This story gets better and better the further you dive in. Any investigative journalist want to make a name for yourself - here is a story.
 
Ronnie 666 said:
The Perth mint nor for that matter the RCM or the US mint have never made a comment about eradicating these milk spots or fixing the problem. Some years ago when Bron still worked for the mint they produced some scanning EM pictures which simply showed these spots and using Xray diffraction they confirmed silver and chlorine - silver chloride. We know that the spots are silver chloride which is white - so how hard is it now. They must use detergents, lubricants and other compounds in manufacturing - simply see what has changed since 2000 when there were no spots - i agree with mtforpar. There was some BS story that this was due to particulates and poor water filtration - that also died.

Since then no PM employee has made a statement? Why - I thought thy were investigating this and going to fix the problem - clearly not. This must be the slowest investigation of any problem since Bart Chilton investigated the silver price manipulation on the COMEX. That investigation proved no convincing evidence - yet it clearly existed ask Deutche Bank.

So it is clear the mints know the cause of this milk spotting but for one or other reason will not fix it. This story gets better and better since PCGS and NGC now offer a restoration service that removes 90% of white spots on proof coins and 25% on bullion coins? If they can do it on proofs why not on MS coins ? Didn't PCGS offer $50,000 to anyone who had a fix for this ? did someone get paid ?? This story gets better and better the further you dive in. Any investigative journalist want to make a name for yourself - here is a story.
Click to expand...



I never heard about a monetary offer for a solution to milk spots....I can only assume this offer is not for changing the process by which silver bullion coins are minted today (the solution to that has long been known already), but rather for a solution to remove milk spots after the problematic manufacturing process.

The RCM and the PM would love to figure out a post production solution because not only could they then continue to produce bullion coins in the same way that they have for the past few years (which is at lower cost than if they produced these bullion coins in a different manner which didn't leave coins prone to milk spotting) but they could also patent that technology and make gazzillions of dollars from collectors who have purchased their milky bullion discs.

Bottom line is: these mints have no incentive whatsoever at this time to change the way they produce bullion....just look at their sales figures (or in the case of the RCM, their projected sales figures)....their bullion coins are selling just fine. It will take a mass pulling of purchases by enough big dealers for the mint to even consider serious manufacturing changes. Other than that, there's likely going to be milky messes for the foreseeable future on lots of silver bullion.



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dccpa. Lol. I forgot I made this post. However, I think the 1992 - 2006 (most of these years between) are doing just fine (eBay sales) even with spot down at these prices (and even lower). I'm happy I bought a lot of these during the remint years. No crying. Trust me. Lol.
 
APMEX say: http://www.apmex.com/category/26040/perth-mint-silver-lunar-series-1-2

We provide all of our customers with a refund, return and / or exchange on everything we sell (including all bullion) and certified coins. If for any reason, you have a problem, please feel free to call us. We will always do our best to accommodate you.

The Perth Mint say: http://www.perthmint.com.au/termsAndConditions.aspx

The Perth Mint Guarantee: 30 day Refund Online, Telephone & Mail Orders (excluding bullion) and over-the-counter purchases.
The Perth Mint offers a refund within 30 days of the purchase date if you are not completely satisfied, have received the wrong goods or have received damaged goods.
 
Thank you Holdfast for posting this. Few milk spots appear even on proof collectables within 30 days. Unfortunately I am building up a small collection of Proof Perth mint coins with milk spots. Some I got from the mint or its secondary dealers and paid over inflated prices, others I got second hand at spot price usually at coin fairs and meetings and some other poor idiot was ripped off. My question is how does the guarantee apply if you buy the proof coin from a secondary agent (distributor) of the mint, does the 30 day return policy apply ?

These wonderful guarantees by the mint and their attention to customer satisfaction provides you with more than enough reasons to never buy PM products again. You would think that the mint reads these posts as I know they do, yet there is no reply or attempt to address this issue.

The current management of the mint appears worse than the past management. At least when Ron was there with Ed, they did reply to comments and tried to defend their indefensible position. Now all we get is crickets :(
 
you think they give a flying...about us. I doubt it, as they sip their Martinis by the pool with some hookers, smiling big, saying, 'suckers.' Lol.
 
Specimen 70 must mean 70 milk spots. I like the way he advertises this as NGC and shows a PCGS graded coin? Clearly very knowledgeable.
Ask the mint if this qualifies for a refund ?
 
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