Perth Mint marketing rather than fixing the problem

Bravo, bravo. All of you have reinforced my position not to by the sh*tty Perth Mint product. I used to buy a lot of this stuff. No more. Unless they are the same price as eagles or maples, I'm not buying. Period end of story. And IF I just happen to buy some in the future, which I won't, it will be in rolls. So when I go to sell, they will be sold in rolls. If someone wants to return the roll because it is riddled with spots, dings, dents, bird poop, and other poor a** quality issues from the Perth, they better hope that the Perth Mint wrap is intact, because I won't be taking them back. But yeah, I've been voting with my wallet. Not buying this crap. I'll probably never again buy high premium coins. If some of the nicer govt issued coins are not near the spot price of eagles, I'll take a pass. As an example, I remember I bought a slew of of the horse kilos at around the $1.79 per oz mark. Maybe I don't make that premium back when I go to sell, or maybe I do. However, I'm not out 6 or 8 bucks per oz like some of those crazy premiums the Pertha is selling as 'bullion.' If it is bullion, you nut bag Perth executives, then sell it as bullion, with a low premium. If you want the label, 'semi-numi' coins, then clean up your act you clowns.
 
I'm glad that debate is so active, although it's quite hard to read everything and post comments.:)

Based on other topics problem is not limited only to Perth(manent) Milking, it also happens with Royal Milking and many others.

Luckily I don't own many coins with milkspots, but the ones that have them are unfortunately some of my favorite.

I don't want in a few years to check some coins and see they developed milkspots. I decided I will rather buy older stuff, gold if I can afford it, stuff with antique finishing. If my Libertads remain ok I might buy some more.

Like 2014 5 Proof Brittania a lot, but to buy again some coin with high premium from Royal Milking? Most probably not.

Until mints start working on this issue, I will rather buy something else. Question is whether we can do something about it, besides not buying products.

There is no guarantee what will happen with coins in a few years, but to get milkspots on freshly purchased stuff. Complete s**t.
 
I have a sealed roll of 2012 Koalas....the outer coin has spots on the queen side. I am the original owner....so even if you keep the roll sealed you still could end up hosed. I personally had to stop buying new issues due to this issue. There is nothing worse than making the right call on a newly released coin and having it appreciate nicely to have your investment reduced to spot metal price. If I wanted to play the spot metal market I would just buy metal. I guess I am in the minority but I will not buy any new issues from mints with spotting problems.
 
Stark said:
Question is whether we can do something about it, besides not buying products.
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The simple answer is no, since quality problems like the one's noted in this thread (namely milk spots and visible scratches) tend to be (depending on the type of finish on the coin) either irreversible and not fixable/cleanable (where the fix also becomes a blemish) or if it is fixable/cleanable by professionals, it might not be cost effective to do so.


That said, maybe some years down the road, some technology will be devised which can be used to remove certain milk spotting without any visible (to the naked eye) trace of the removal/cleaning. But still the issue of cost effectiveness would come into play as such hypothetical technology could initially be costly.



Bottom line is: Don't like to deal with quality issues of certain PM coins? Then buy not.




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mtforpar said:
I guess I am in the minority but I will not buy any new issues from mints with spotting problems.
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I don't think you're necessarily in the minority. There's been a growing backlash over the past year or two, at least according to statements on forums & YouTube or whatever, where buyers are finally wising up.


Seems I've been *fairly* lucky with spotting, at least when compared to others. But I've still cut out most of the offenders at this point -- both by dumping most of the coins, and by ceasing new purchases of these until the particular mints have proven with a new track record that they've fixed all their issues.

I should note, this also has the added benefit of freeing up extra cash for other things. :cool:


And I really hate to do it, as I like some of these coins, otherwise.

Do you honestly think that I want to stop buying, for example, Perth Lunars & Kooks?? Heck, no. I love those things, for what they are. There are some fantastic designs, IMO, and the combination of finishes certainly make for an attractive modern coin. But *only* when you get a problem-free one that remains as such. And it seems that risk has been growing each year.


It's a shame, really. All this work they put into it, only to really screw it up right before the finish line.
 
Or buy when the price is the same as eagles or close to them. The price difference is a tad bit higher than I'd like, but I couldn't find eagles any lower or kooks any lower. If I was going to buy 20 eagles or 20 kooks (I'd only buy 20 in the perth roll), I'd probably spend the extra $25.00 on the kooks, especially if I was holding over 15 - 20 years. Reason? Still a change in design every year, it is limited mintage 500K, and they are noticed by most of the world. So it all comes down to premium for me. I will NEVER BUY 1 oz Lunar again, however. NEVER!! No chance in heck. Or if the 2 oz was the price of the kook (per ounce), then I may get the 2 oz rooster, 5 of them of course, since it is in the Perth Wrap, and the mintage on those are usually ultra low. I think like 30,000? I bought a bunch of the 2 oz horses back in the day, I think at around the $42.00 mark. They are fetching a good premium. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=200&LH_Complete=1


EAGLES
https://sdbullion.com/2016-american-silver-eagle-coin

KOOKS
https://www.providentmetals.com/2017-1-oz-silver-kookaburra.html
 
Gatito Bandito said:
It's a shame, really. All this work they put into it, only to really screw it up right before the finish line.
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Very good summary. And exactly the same thoughts I had when people start to complain about Brittania 2014 5oz proof.

Maybe when enough people stop buying stuff like that something will change, most probably. Or not. Who knows.

I read once, I think in a book written by the main architect of NORFED, something like the following. You can bullshit some people the whole time, all the people some time, but not all the people the whole time.
;)

Long live and prosper (or rather no milkspots).;)
 
I can remember as far back as early 2013 reading widespread complaints by certain stackers about milk spots on silver 1 oz bullion Canadian Maple Leafs. Along with those complaints came vows by these stackers to never buy SCML's so long as the problem exists.

I highly doubt that those many, many complaints (even cumulatively) had any measurable impact on the sales of SCML's over the ensuing years. Mintage figures are very slow to come from the RCM, but this resource estimates that sales figures of SCML's over the past few years have been quite excellent in spite of the fact that milk spots seem to abound on many SCML's: http://www.galeforcesales.com/Silver-Canada-Maple-Leaf-Mintages.php


So what's the take away from this? Be aware of the difference between casual and causal relationships. If you take issue with certain bullion products not being up to some standard of your own expectations, then not buying that particular product won't be about 'punishing' the producing mint (because in all likelihood, the mint won't change the way they produce bullion due to that), but rather it's about your own piece of mind in not supporting something you feel is inferior or not worth supporting.


If your goal is to decidedly change the way a mint produces a bullion coin, then you should be aware that likely nothing that you can or will do will work to affect that change.

The overriding reason I don't purchase bullion coins that I think are inferior, is not because I think that by me doing this, that the mint will somehow magically stop in their tracks and change the way they produce, but rather it's a personal commitment to myself to not support things that I don't think deserve my monetary support. If, by chance, my lack of support is part of a massive move by a significant number of big players who also pull their support, then the offending mint may make a change and a casual relationship could exist between my pulling support and a production change taking place at the mint....it wouldn't be a causal relationship. Be aware of the difference between casual and causal relationships.



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Last year when Perth swapped to 9999 silver for the Lunars, they should have learnt from the mistakes the Canadian Mint made; like...how many folk stopped buying maples? Ans...quite a few folk on this forum and Kitco, from memory, some of the dealers were trying to off-load maples at a discount price.
 
Missinglink there is a big difference between maples sold in a tube for AU$2-3 over spot Vs separately packaged lunars selling for Au$6 (kooks)- $10 (Roosters)+ per oz over spot. I dont think I would care if my maples had spots as there are 10 million + others out there. The lunars and kooks have supposedly low mintages and some exclusivity built in. I think that is the con. Sure the Perth Mint can churn out crappy coins and as long as they are sold who cares. I wonder how the sales of Perth mint coins have been in 2016, less the low premium bullion Roos. Certainly I know many stackers who have given up on stacking PM silver coins. Watch this space.
 
I stopped buying Royal Canadian Mint coins a while back as well for the same reason, I got an example of the new style Maples with the radiating lines but I have not bought any more.

I quite like the gold maples with radiating lines so I am not boycotting the whole mint, just their silver products.

Now if the Perth or Royal Canadian Mint bring out a new coin then it has to be a new style or security feature for me to have any interest, just another milky disk with an animal stamped on it is not enough to justify a purchase.

I have gone back to collecting circulating currency now, a few dings and marks are expected and you aren't paying too much of a premium to buy them.
 
Totally agree.

Quality is bullion, price better be bullion.
Canadian Mint can produce maple bullion with quality (aka milkspot) like Perth Mint, Perth Mint ought to offer their bullion product the same premium as maple bullion.
 
Yeah, it's too bad that the Perth has thrown caution to the wind are now just becoming another bullion player with their coins. I haven't bought nearly as much of their stuff over the last couple years as I used to. I'm now just playing the spot price game using www.ownx.com At the hit of a button, I can cash out of my 1 oz physical allocation, and either take cash or roll it into gold (playing the GSR). Why take the chance with spotting and the shoddy craftsmanship of the Perth Mint coins being plastered with poop? #nothanks.
 
Ronnie 666 said:
Missinglink there is a big difference between maples sold in a tube for AU$2-3 over spot Vs separately packaged lunars selling for Au$6 (kooks)- $10 (Roosters)+ per oz over spot. I dont think I would care if my maples had spots as there are 10 million + others out there. The lunars and kooks have supposedly low mintages and some exclusivity built in. I think that is the con. Sure the Perth Mint can churn out crappy coins and as long as they are sold who cares. I wonder how the sales of Perth mint coins have been in 2016, less the low premium bullion Roos. Certainly I know many stackers who have given up on stacking PM silver coins. Watch this space.
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I've never argued that there isn't some difference between the two coins (and in fact, that difference is the main reason I decided back in 2013 to buy more than just a couple (as I'd done previously) of 2008 Lunar S2 1 oz silver coins) but there are more similarities between the two including the solution to feeling pissed about choosing to buy bullion coins that have a tendency to milk spot.....which is to not support that product by not purchasing such coins. It actually doesn't matter what the difference between 2 coins that are known to develop milk spots is....the solution to your anguish is always the same.....don't buy it. Doing that will likely not change the production practices of the mint, but why suffer yourself over things you can not change. Since you can change what you choose to purchase, then that is the only real solution to not supporting a product that is not to your standards.



If anyone thinks that a mint like the PM is going to forewarn it's customers that it is using a slightly different production practice (which will knowingly lead to a greater prevalence of milk spotting) for this years bullion coins than they did for the 2008 coin of the series, then you don't understand the business model of the PM. It's highly unlikely that the PM will notify in advance of changes such as that. Besides, the solution is still the same....don't like the quality?....then don't support the product line. It's better than continuing to support the product but feeling all pissed that you have chosen to support it in spite of you knowing that there is a problem.




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mtforpar said:
The silver maples with the radiating lines still get milk spots.
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I believe jizlizard indicated that it is the gold coins with the radiating lines that he's interested in because the silver one's still are prone to developing spots.



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Guys, stop complaining about Perth Milking. Forum is under constant spam attack. :/ :P
 
ParanoidAndroid said:
Stark said:
Guys, stop complaining about Perth Milking. Forum is under constant spam attack. :/ :P
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It's the Russians.
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No it's not. It's poor management and don't care about the customer attitude.
Things will change - they always do.
 
I just received 2 MS70 graded Perth Mint coins today - A rooster and a kookaburra 2017.
The rooster was graded by PCGS ms70 and has a small defect by the queens eye (arrow)- no big deal but as soon as I turn the light on watch the milk spill

The second is a kook graded MS70 by NGC also has a milk spot - look at the arrow.

Please ignore the scratches they are on the case not the coin..

1302_rooster-1.jpg


1302_rooster-2.jpg


1302_rooster-3.jpg


1302_kook-milk-1.jpg


1302_kook-milk-2.jpg


Thought a few pictures would drive this nail home....

I dont believe for 1 second that these milk spots were not present when the coins were graded - so now PCGS and NGC are ignoring milk spots ?

After looking through hundreds of 1,2,5 and 10oz 2017 Perth Mint coins I think they all have these marks. Good luck selling them in the future....anther great mess from the Perth Mint.
 
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