People "look" very worried!

[Ronnie 666]

The general concept is that the US takes in about $2.2T in taxes and spends about $3.4T - so they borrow, print etc just over 1T/ year. That is incorrect as it is not GAAP accounting like you would do in a business. This non - GAAP accounting does not include a massive amount of incurred liabilities including Medicare, Social security, wars etc etc. when you look at all the liabilities it is just over $6T per year. That is why the real debt of the USA is not $17 T but $200T or more. So when I say the US prints, borrows etc $6T per 2 years that is the true figure not $2T.

That $6T is growing rapidly and perhaps the true figure for 2014 will be $7-8T. Exponential growth is a bugger....

These are the real figures not the $1.2T per year on the balance sheet. The off balance sheet liabilities count!!!

How long can this continue ???

 

[Stark]

Until some bigger economies will abandon dollar and shift to other/new currencies. Every empire has fallen. I see no reasons why this one would last forever.

Or until we completely destroy this planet. Things in life come in circles. From ashes of old, new things rises. Although I'm not particularly fond of winter, there is one good thing about it. After it, spring is much more welcomed.

 

[dccpa]

The general concept is that the US takes in about $2.2T in taxes and spends about $3.4T - so they borrow, print etc just over 1T/ year. That is incorrect as it is not GAP accounting like you would do in a business. This non - GAP accounting does not include a massive amount of incurred liabilities including Medicare, Social security, wars etc etc. when you look at all the liabilities it is just over $6T per year. That is why the real debt of the USA is not $17 T but $200T or more. So when I say the US prints, borrows etc $6T per 2 years that is the true figure not $2T.

That $6T is growing rapidly and perhaps the true figure for 2014 will be $7-8T. Exponential growth is a bugger....

These are the real figures not the $1.2T per year on the balance sheet. The off balance sheet liabilities count!!!

How long can this continue ???

Be interesting to see where you are getting these "general concept" numbers. Normally this kind of information comes from sources with an agenda who feel free to distort facts.

I understand the concept of future liabilities. Although I never see anyone discount them backwards to a current value. Don't know why you guys are getting so worked up about our debt? We plan to default through currency devaluation anyway.

 

[Newtosilver]

Until some bigger economies will abandon dollar and shift to other/new currencies. Every empire has fallen. I see no reasons why this one would last forever.

Or until we completely destroy this planet. Things in life come in circles. From ashes of old, new things rises. Although I'm not particularly fond of winter, there is one good thing about it. After it, spring is much more welcomed.

I think you are right on the money, you used to have the Spanish, English Empires etc, the Romans...... That all came to an end, I see China as next in line. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[Ronnie 666]

The general concept is that the US takes in about $2.2T in taxes and spends about $3.4T - so they borrow, print etc just over 1T/ year. That is incorrect as it is not GAAP accounting like you would do in a business. This non - GAAP accounting does not include a massive amount of incurred liabilities including Medicare, Social security, wars etc etc. when you look at all the liabilities it is just over $6T per year. That is why the real debt of the USA is not $17 T but $200T or more. So when I say the US prints, borrows etc $6T per 2 years that is the true figure not $2T.

That $6T is growing rapidly and perhaps the true figure for 2014 will be $7-8T. Exponential growth is a bugger....

These are the real figures not the $1.2T per year on the balance sheet. The off balance sheet liabilities count!!!

How long can this continue ???

Be interesting to see where you are getting these "general concept" numbers. Normally this kind of information comes from sources with an agenda who feel free to distort facts.

I understand the concept of future liabilities. Although I never see anyone discount them backwards to a current value. Don't know why you guys are getting so worked up about our debt? We plan to default through currency devaluation anyway.

Your Debt is completely destroying the world economy, creating inflation, wars and destroying lives. Hey why should we care ? you dont !
By the way go to Shadow Stats (John Williams) and you will see real numbers not BS that you are fed.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...eficit-numbers-what-the-feds-arent-reporting/

http://www.silverdoctors.com/eric-s...on-not-reported-anywhere-by-the-public-press/

 

[mmissinglink]

Ronnie, you still have not answered a single concern of mine with anything other than pure emotional speculation.

I'm not saying you know nothing, just that you did not answer my question....the same question every doomsdayer I have ever read has failed to answer with anything but pure emotional speculation.

I wish you would have just been honest and said I just don't know.


.

 

[mmissinglink]

Until some bigger economies will abandon dollar and shift to other/new currencies. Every empire has fallen. I see no reasons why this one would last forever.

Or until we completely destroy this planet. Things in life come in circles. From ashes of old, new things rises. Although I'm not particularly fond of winter, there is one good thing about it. After it, spring is much more welcomed.

The Chinese empire has survived and thrived for more than 2000 years through almost every hell imaginable. The American empire is not even 240 years old. To say that every empire has fallen says very little actually. Sure, nothing is forever, but that's a far cry from what the doomsdayers have been screaming probably for decades in the U.S.

I'm not saying that they are all screaming the same thing nor that they are all necessarily wrong, just that they are screaming pure emotional conjecture from what I've seen thus far.

 

[sammysilver]

m missinglink, I have been following the debate, but am disappointing that you use emotional language, in particular "doomsdayer" (sic), and then state that others are screaming pure emotional conjecture. A concern stacker does not always translate as doomsayer.

 

[Silver Pauper]

...Your Debt is completely destroying the world economy, creating inflation, wars and destroying lives. Hey why should we care ? you don't!...

Could have not said better myself... I don't care!

Not sure why you should either... it is really beyond me how Australians are so concerned about the USA, when they have more than enough problems at home... I guess it always easier to fix anybody's problems but your own.

 

[Ronnie 666]

Ronnie, you still have not answered a single concern of mine with anything other than pure emotional speculation.

I'm not saying you know nothing, just that you did not answer my question....the same question every doomsdayer I have ever read has failed to answer with anything but pure emotional speculation.

I wish you would have just been honest and said I just don't know.


.

Look I am not sure what you want me to say. What honest words would you like ??? What I am telling you is that the US debt is blowing up. The 1.2T stated deficit per year is closer to $4T. We (rest of the world) will hang on supporting your lavish lifestyle, your bloated military and big banks until the yearly deficit is 1 Quadrillion. That is not going to happen. The world is already net sellers of US bills and the Fed is buying them up not at $45 billion per month but probably at $400 B/ month.

http://www.brotherjohnf.com/archives/230249

How long is the US$ going to be the reserve currency - answer not long..... Can I give you an accurate time - of course not but it will be well within 5 years. This is not going on for decades.
If it does we will see the rest of the world go up in flames and that is not going to happen.

Will this end badly? of course it will. Am I emotional of course who wouldn't be. Is this speculation - you decide.

 

[dccpa]

The general concept is that the US takes in about $2.2T in taxes and spends about $3.4T - so they borrow, print etc just over 1T/ year. That is incorrect as it is not GAAP accounting like you would do in a business. This non - GAAP accounting does not include a massive amount of incurred liabilities including Medicare, Social security, wars etc etc. when you look at all the liabilities it is just over $6T per year. That is why the real debt of the USA is not $17 T but $200T or more. So when I say the US prints, borrows etc $6T per 2 years that is the true figure not $2T.

That $6T is growing rapidly and perhaps the true figure for 2014 will be $7-8T. Exponential growth is a bugger....

These are the real figures not the $1.2T per year on the balance sheet. The off balance sheet liabilities count!!!

How long can this continue ???

Be interesting to see where you are getting these "general concept" numbers. Normally this kind of information comes from sources with an agenda who feel free to distort facts.

I understand the concept of future liabilities. Although I never see anyone discount them backwards to a current value. Don't know why you guys are getting so worked up about our debt? We plan to default through currency devaluation anyway.

Your Debt is completely destroying the world economy, creating inflation, wars and destroying lives. Hey why should we care ? you dont !
By the way go to Shadow Stats (John Williams) and you will see real numbers not BS that you are fed.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...eficit-numbers-what-the-feds-arent-reporting/

http://www.silverdoctors.com/eric-s...on-not-reported-anywhere-by-the-public-press/

I asked for the source of your numbers and you didn't provide it. I am well aware of John Williams site but that has nothing to do with the actual budget numbers you quoted originally. Since you don't have a source for your numbers, there is nothing further to discuss.

You are going to have a stroke over something you can in no way influence. All we can do is make whatever preparations we can or are willing to make. I am not a prepper as what will happen is not what they are expecting. So, my preparations are much simpler. My initial preparations are done. My final preparations will be completed when needed, but that time is not close.

Instead of worrying about US deficits, you should concentrate on finding your own comfort level with your future plans and preparations. The US is not the only country printing fiat money like crazy, the whole world is doing it. Btw, I met someone who moved to my state because he believed it was a good place to weather the coming financial storm. That meeting occured around 1985. How did that work out for him?

Edit to add from your latest post: "The 1.2T stated deficit per year is closer to $4T." The deficit is not 1.2T, you are wrong. You can keep posting old deficit numbers all day long, but they are not accurate for the current year. This citation took me about 30 seconds to find. I am sure there is more recent one, but it shows that your 1.2T deficit number has nothing to do with 2013. Posting using outdated statistics and projecting them forward only makes you look foolish.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/12/us-budget-deficit_n_3745096.html

 

[Silver Pauper]

Btw, I met someone who moved to my state because he believed it was a good place to weather the coming financial storm. That meeting occurred around 1985. How did that work out for him?

That made my day!!! I was laughing so hard everyone wanted to know the story!!!

The same drivel and verbal diarrhea... different mouth and different decade. You gotta love it!

The reality of what is happening and what will happen is somewhere between the extremes... usually just right of centre... the difficulty is finding centre.

 

[Ronnie 666]

Be interesting to see where you are getting these "general concept" numbers. Normally this kind of information comes from sources with an agenda who feel free to distort facts.

I understand the concept of future liabilities. Although I never see anyone discount them backwards to a current value. Don't know why you guys are getting so worked up about our debt? We plan to default through currency devaluation anyway.

Your Debt is completely destroying the world economy, creating inflation, wars and destroying lives. Hey why should we care ? you dont !
By the way go to Shadow Stats (John Williams) and you will see real numbers not BS that you are fed.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...eficit-numbers-what-the-feds-arent-reporting/

http://www.silverdoctors.com/eric-s...on-not-reported-anywhere-by-the-public-press/

I asked for the source of your numbers and you didn't provide it. I am well aware of John Williams site but that has nothing to do with the actual budget numbers you quoted originally. Since you don't have a source for your numbers, there is nothing further to discuss.

You are going to have a stroke over something you can in no way influence. All we can do is make whatever preparations we can or are willing to make. I am not a prepper as what will happen is not what they are expecting. So, my preparations are much simpler. My initial preparations are done. My final preparations will be completed when needed, but that time is not close.

Instead of worrying about US deficits, you should concentrate on finding your own comfort level with your future plans and preparations. The US is not the only country printing fiat money like crazy, the whole world is doing it. Btw, I met someone who moved to my state because he believed it was a good place to weather the coming financial storm. That meeting occured around 1985. How did that work out for him?

Edit to add from your latest post: "The 1.2T stated deficit per year is closer to $4T." The deficit is not 1.2T, you are wrong. You can keep posting old deficit numbers all day long, but they are not accurate for the current year. This citation took me about 30 seconds to find. I am sure there is more recent one, but it shows that your 1.2T deficit number has nothing to do with 2013. Posting using outdated statistics and projecting them forward only makes you look foolish.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/12/us-budget-deficit_n_3745096.html

To quote the Huffington Post - hahahahaha an act of desperation hahahaha. That red flea ridden gossip rag has nothing to do with fact hahaha
I am out of here as I know what you are all about.

 

[Ronnie 666]

so did the USSR have nuclear arm - did not prevent their collapse

 

[trew]

100% absolute FACT nobody can argue with:

The US govt cannot continue expanding it's debt into infinity.


100% unknown that NOBODY can predict:

HOW or WHEN this situation will get resolved.



Possible outcomes:

1. US govt balances it's books and pays down the debt

2. US dollar devalues over a period of time and inflation inflates the debt away

3. Markets suddenly say 'enough' and dollar and bond markets collapse (same as 2 but faster)


- Same could probably be said of other countries with huge debts - eg Japan

 

[Ronnie 666]

Just for those who think I make up figures of 4-5T$ :

Older Data

Monday, July 11, 2011
John Williams: True US Deficit $5 Trillion,
http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com.au/2011/07/john-williams-true-us-deficit-5.html

Real budget deficit: $4 trillion
http://www.wnd.com/2008/01/45430/

"Real" Federal Deficit Four Times Official Number
http://pileusblog.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/real-federal-deficit-four-times-official-number/

Recently

Deficit 7T$
http://worldinstruggle.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/us-real-federal-deficit-to-top-7.html

This communist ideology in the HPost of a shrinking deficit is like the green shoots story - total BS

 

[mmissinglink]

The huge difference is that the Russians never had the moral corruptness to use nuclear weapons to murder large civilian populations.

Everyone rightfully fears a rogue, imperialist nation that has no qualms committing such acts of terror and murder upon the defenseless elderly, women, children, and men who were either incinerated in the initial blasts or died from radiation poisoning over the next several decades.

The experiment that is the U.S. today has never been seen on this planet before....the precedent is what every new day brings and thus far, it seems as there are an untold number of cards up the sleeve of the financial sorcerers who are at the helm.

The doomsday threat scenario is part of the psychological war-fear they are engaging in I believe. I used to buy into that psychological pathos but I have seen no logical, believable, cogent, and succinct explanation of exactly how that is supposed to play out. Crying dollar collapse and doomsday and comparing the U.S. to the Weimar Republic in it's days of hyperinflation or comparing to Zimbabwe as some doomsdayers do is just not the most well thought out rhetoric I think. Doesn't mean that there aren't a couple of minor parallels but to conflate one with the other...not good argumentation IMHO.

 

[boston]

Everyone rightfully fears a rogue, imperialist nation that has no qualms committing such acts of terror and murder upon the defenseless elderly, women, children, and men who were either incinerated in the initial blasts or died from radiation poisoning over the next several decades.

Surprisingly, I do not.

However, I do have grave concerns of the USA using it's military might against other innocent countries.

 

[Stark]

Until some bigger economies will abandon dollar and shift to other/new currencies. Every empire has fallen. I see no reasons why this one would last forever.

Or until we completely destroy this planet. Things in life come in circles. From ashes of old, new things rises. Although I'm not particularly fond of winter, there is one good thing about it. After it, spring is much more welcomed.

The Chinese empire has survived and thrived for more than 2000 years through almost every hell imaginable. The American empire is not even 240 years old. To say that every empire has fallen says very little actually. Sure, nothing is forever, but that's a far cry from what the doomsdayers have been screaming probably for decades in the U.S.

I'm not saying that they are all screaming the same thing nor that they are all necessarily wrong, just that they are screaming pure emotional conjecture from what I've seen thus far.

That's true. But there is also huge difference between today's China and China back then. I doubt it can be said that this is "same" empire since beginning. As well as nobody can say that today's Italy is successor of Roman Empire or Greece of old state.
Eastern Roman Empire survived longer than Western part but it fall in the end as well.
Persian Empire

The "transition" of power is going slowly. I would probably agree that Asia got the most from globalization.

Also, US and EU are "jumping" from one war into other, spending a lot of money and killing many people. China and Russia (except South Ossetia) are practically gaining its power and influence without shooting a single bullet.

 

[Stark]

And regarding the doomsday scenario. There are just so (too) many things that can wipe out most of earth population - viruses, asteroids, etc. There is no proof for or against that humankind won't follow dinosaurs...

Not to mention the things we eat and experiments with nature.

And if you ask people in Africa they would probably say doomsday is already here...