Pensioners or centerlink recipients

[bordsilver]

The existence of the mandated wealth transfers from the government actually weakens our social bonds and discourages private giving. Look at the massive amount of private charity that occurs everywhere: Meals on Wheels, the Indonesian tsunami, the Queensland flood donations, Vic. Bushfires, Salvation Army, Big Sister/Big Brother programs, the thousands of foster parents (including temporary accommodation for kids in need) around the country etc etc. Saying that we need a government system to ensure that every single person doesn't fall through the cracks is ludicrous especially since even with such a system we still have lots of homeless and people in dire need.

- If you want to help the poor, do you donate your time or hard-earned money to a food stamps office, Salvation Army, etc? Why not? If welfare programs are more efficient than charities, they deserve every dollar you spend towards helping the poor. Furthermore, charities that haven't been crowded out by welfare programs should be nationalized to prevent further wastages.

- Would you prefer to spend long hours at a job you may dislike or even hate, or to instead send out a few discouraging job applications, and spend the rest of the day enjoying your hobbies? Welfare makes living on a low income more attractive than it otherwise would be, either by increasing rewards or reducing penalties.

- The degree to which self-interest hinders charitable giving is the degree to which self-interest induces needless taking. If people are reluctant to give away their money for free, why wouldn't they be reluctant to give up a source of free money?

- The welfare state is self-perpetuating. The increased taxes levied on business to fund the welfare programs drives marginal small & medium enterprises out of business, and pushes large companies to move their operations overseas. This crease more unemployment, increasing the burden on the welfare state and results in further tax increases. Import tariffs are often introduced to prevent the flight of businesses to countries with lower tax rates. These tariffs increase domestic prices, resulting in lowered living standards for all, including the poor.

I would rather the ability to choose who gets my charity, in what form and how much.

 

[lucky luke]

Maybe people shouldn't have kids if they cant put a roof over there heads

Those that can't afford the roof over their heads, often do a better job of breeding to populate our society with the canon fodder for future wars. Every-one pays a price eventually.

 

[finicky]

When you're porking someone you forget your poverty for a while

 

[radiobirdman]

Maybe people shouldn't have kids if they cant put a roof over there heads

Those that can't afford the roof over their heads, often do a better job of breeding to populate our society with the canon fodder for future wars. Every-one pays a price eventually.

dole bludgers and pensioners first of to war may as well let them earn there handouts ,and a less tax for the rest of us .

 

[Guest]

the reality is they could stop all benefits that will just increase crime rates taxes will go up more to employ more police and jails.

if this whole thread is about how much tax you pay , please don't live in a delusion the gov is like a drug addict they need more so think what you will looking after old people is what some sort of a chore the only reason we do this is because their kids wont.
in other cultures that are not capitalistic old people are revered and taken care of in our society they are a burden.
have a bloody good look at yourselves.

Actually, I do take care of the old that matter to me. I take care of both my wife's parents and they return the favour.

Ironically, it's the centralised government which drives the biggest wedge on the family unit in society and not society itself.

You assume that a society without a social support structure is destined to degrade into lawlessness.

Sounds like government propaganda to me.

 

[lucky luke]

Maybe people shouldn't have kids if they cant put a roof over there heads

Those that can't afford the roof over their heads, often do a better job of breeding to populate our society with the canon fodder for future wars. Every-one pays a price eventually.

dole bludgers and pensioners first of to war may as well let them earn there handouts ,and a less tax for the rest of us .

I was being Faceatious. Though historicly, it has been the lower-classes that make up the majority of the drones in the front lines. As for who is and who is not a "pensioner", where does the royal family fit in to the concept of public funded hand-outs? :|

 

[Big A.D.]

The existence of the mandated wealth transfers from the government actually weakens our social bonds and discourages private giving. Look at the massive amount of private charity that occurs everywhere: Meals on Wheels, the Indonesian tsunami, the Queensland flood donations, Vic. Bushfires, Salvation Army, Big Sister/Big Brother programs, the thousands of foster parents (including temporary accommodation for kids in need) around the country etc etc. Saying that we need a government system to ensure that every single person doesn't fall through the cracks is ludicrous especially since even with such a system we still have lots of homeless and people in dire need.

You realize this country exists today because that system didn't work out so well, right?

 

[lucky luke]

the reality is they could stop all benefits that will just increase crime rates taxes will go up more to employ more police and jails.

if this whole thread is about how much tax you pay , please don't live in a delusion the gov is like a drug addict they need more so think what you will looking after old people is what some sort of a chore the only reason we do this is because their kids wont.
in other cultures that are not capitalistic old people are revered and taken care of in our society they are a burden.
have a bloody good look at yourselves.

Actually, I do take care of the old that matter to me. I take care of both my wife's parents and they return the favour.

Ironically, it's the centralised government which drives the biggest wedge on the family unit in society and not society itself.

You assume that a society without a social support structure is destined to degrade into lawlessness.

Sounds like government propaganda to me.

some-one should give you a medal. :|

 

[radiobirdman]

[quote=willrocks

I say let the "oldies" use up any capital they might have in their house before being eligible for a pension. Either via a reverse-mortgage, or down-sizing.

So if I live long enough I will be homeless on the pension with nothing to leave my kids ,and nothing to show for 50 yrs of work and taxes

fuk you very much

 

[radiobirdman]

Those that can't afford the roof over their heads, often do a better job of breeding to populate our society with the canon fodder for future wars. Every-one pays a price eventually.

dole bludgers and pensioners first of to war may as well let them earn there handouts ,and a less tax for the rest of us .

I was being Faceatious. Though historicly, it has been the lower-classes that make up the majority of the drones in the front lines. As for who is and who is not a "pensioner", where does the royal family fit in to the concept of public funded hand-outs? :|

I was being serious.

 

[Guest]

I say let the "oldies" use up any capital they might have in their house before being eligible for a pension. Either via a reverse-mortgage, or down-sizing.

So if I live long enough I will be homeless on the pension with nothing to leave my kids ,and nothing to show for 50 yrs of work and taxes

fuk you very much

If after 50 years of earning the only plan you had for your retirement was to mooch off the system after buying your house, then you didn't plan very well or invest wisely.

That in itself is no reason to suggest it's either the fault or responsibility of others to make up the short fall.

 

[willrocks]

I say let the "oldies" use up any capital they might have in their house before being eligible for a pension. Either via a reverse-mortgage, or down-sizing.

So if I live long enough I will be homeless on the pension with nothing to leave my kids ,and nothing to show for 50 yrs of work and taxes

fuk you very much

It's not my problem you forgot to save for retirement, and that you payed (much lower than I pay) taxes for 50 years. So why should I now fund your retirement and mine?

No offense, but why should my taxes fund an inheritance to your (or anyone else's) kids?

 

[Golden Boy]

only if you spend everything youve saved you plan to live longer then save more. I dont understand what is so difficult about paying for yourself and not rellying on handouts also your tax dollars shoukdnt ensure youre retirement they ensure we have hospitals, roads and a huge and ineffictive public service money saved from not having aged pension would most certainly go here but maybe thats just the cinic in me.

on a side note before you all tell me im a heartless such and such,I do beleive there needs to be exceptions to the rule for people who are legitimately (keyword there) unable to work like previously mentioned examples someone should not be desitute through no fault of their own ie disability. true unemployment should be limited to 3 months then people should be sent for training somewhere useful or as mentioned sent to the army simple solution.

The question about current pensioners is rather a pain promises need to be kept I dont think there is a way around that but people need to pay for themselves and yes the transitional generation gets royaly screwed but isnt that better than screwing everyone down the line? Think of the children as it were.

 

[radiobirdman]

After I pay 50 yrs of tax I think I have funded my own pension .

if you cant arrange you affairs so that your poor and own a nice home in the country/beach on the pension ,thats your problem
its the only chance you have to get some of your tax back .

Im not to keen on my tax going on your first home buyers grant or family tax benifit part a /part b either but hey as long as were all getting something why complain

 

[willrocks]

After I pay 50 yrs of tax I think I have funded my own pension .

I don't think so. Current pensions are entirely funded from this generation. And the government is in massive debt, thanks in part to your generation.

if you cant arrange you affairs so that your poor and own a nice home in the country/beach on the pension ,thats your problem
its the only chance you have to get some of your tax back.

I arrange my affairs so that I pay as little tax as possible, and I'll have an early, but frugal, self funded retirement. In that way I can stop paying income tax altogether.

Im not to keen on my tax going on your first home buyers grant or family tax benifit part a /part b either but hey as long as were all getting something why complain

By the sound of it you're a net tax recipient. So any tax dollars you're currently paying is originally derived from other people's taxes?

 

[radiobirdman]

[

Im not to keen on my tax going on your first home buyers grant or family tax benifit part a /part b either but hey as long as were all getting something why complain

By the sound of it you're a net tax recipient. So any tax dollars you're currently paying is originally derived from other people's taxes?

:lol:

 

[willrocks]

its the only chance you have to get some of your tax back.

Tax is paid in order to fund required infrastructure and services (e.g. those that you currently use everyday). It shouldn't be expected that you get your tax back during retirement years from the current working generation, such expectation would be ponzi like in nature.

Don't forget a large portion of those taxes is paid to service debt the government has incurred.

 

[RhythmDoctor]

Actually, I do take care of the old that matter to me. I take care of both my wife's parents and they return the favour.

Ironically, it's the centralised government which drives the biggest wedge on the family unit in society and not society itself.

You assume that a society without a social support structure is destined to degrade into lawlessness.

Sounds like government propaganda to me.

This I absolutely agree with.



In fact actually Aus, I don't think I've ever read something more poignant on this site from you. The barrier to natural supporting each other that seems to have been propagated by the government is still supported by them. Not surprising really.

 

[Billythekid]

1. Age pensioners deserve a raise. Most worked plenty of years to get it.

2. Did you know that when you go onto the disability pension you no longer have to show that you are looking for work (because supposedly you cant). I know a person who had a party to celebrate his rise to 'disabled' status. He was one of the people from point 3. below

3. In my line of work I have met 2 people that are on the disability pension because ........they cant read/write !!! You would think they would be given some lessons instead.

4. The more people the Govt. allows to be 'disabled' the better the unemployment stats look for the Govt.... because as disabled pension recipients they don't count as unemployed...

5. Regardless of the system there will always be people who will rort it (including the Govt).


Bill

 

[southerncross]

Just to retouch on the supposed hypocrisy of Ayn Rand for receiving Govt Welfare , misunderstanding go's a long way towards wrong assumption's.

This was written by Rand several years before she started receiving said income.

It is obvious, in such cases, that a man receives his own money which was taken from him by force, directly and specifically, without his consent, against his own choice. Those who advocated such laws are morally guilty, since they assumed the "right" to force employers and unwilling co-workers. But the victims, who opposed such laws, have a clear right to any refund of their own moneyand they would not advance the cause of freedom if they left their money, unclaimed, for the benefit of the welfare-state administration.

http://fvdb.wordpress.com/2011/04/19/the-left-smears-ayn-rand/