Pension Debate: 'No One Has the Guts' to Let the Poor 'Wither and Die'

[smk762]

Would it be justified to kill pro-euthanasia proponents and plead self defence?
Personally, being concerned with the ecological impact of a rising population makes me somewhat supportive of depopulation, though I'm yet to find a method I'm morally comfortable with. My perception of humanity being largely ignorant and/or narcissistic helps dampen my ethical resolve though. Question becomes, who deserves to die? And who decides? Chances are the issue will take care of itself eventually via the outcome of chose lifestyle factors.

The poor health of those that make bad choices should not be publicly funded, remove it and it may cause people to revise their actions to survive. If they can afford it. Which means the poor are on the block.

Other situations, like war, pestilence and famine will affect larger sectors of the population, with the poor likely more at risk as history has demonstrated. These are also avoidable if we decide to revise global perception. I'm not so sure enough people are willing or able to understand, enact and fund that which is needed to achieve it, as it would mean a shift on consciousness that is far from our materialist way of life.

I plan to die quietly in a remote region removed from civilization as dictated by mother nature and father time, peacefully accepting the process for the cycle it is and advancing to freedom from this physical realm. The only factors which will add pain to this process will be the verdict of self-judgement as I depart, and concern for the future of those I leave behind.

 

[Caput Lupinum]

I've got less intention on going so quietly

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri_aSJAGTy4[/youtube]

 

[SpacePete]

I plan to die quietly in a remote region removed from civilization as dictated by mother nature and father time, peacefully accepting the process for the cycle it is and advancing to freedom from this physical realm.

F*ck that. I aint going without sticking my finger to this bullshit universe.

 

[Stoic Phoenix]

Why are we picking on pensioners, a vast many who have worked hard all their life rather than those on unemployment benefits?

 

[smk762]

I plan to die quietly in a remote region removed from civilization as dictated by mother nature and father time, peacefully accepting the process for the cycle it is and advancing to freedom from this physical realm.

F*ck that. I aint going without sticking my finger to this bullshit universe.

TBH, I'd prefer to go out helping the Rebel Alliance defeat the Empire, but that might be considered terrorism and I'm not interested in doing it for religious entities who seem to be the only ones actively recruiting.

Maybe, assuming we're okay with the elderly starving or freezing to death due to inability to buy food and heating, we should give them a chance to die heroically as cannon fodder next time we invade a resource rich nation. Or we can use them for human testing of chemicals like the Nazis did to their prisoners. As long we get something out of it and it doesn't cost us any money... and in all fairness, the same opportunities should be available to the long term unemployed.

 

[SpacePete]

I plan to die quietly in a remote region removed from civilization as dictated by mother nature and father time, peacefully accepting the process for the cycle it is and advancing to freedom from this physical realm.

F*ck that. I aint going without sticking my finger to this bullshit universe.

TBH, I'd prefer to go out helping the Rebel Alliance defeat the Empire, but that might be considered terrorism and I'm not interested in doing it for religious entities who seem to be the only ones actively recruiting.

Maybe, assuming we're okay with the elderly starving or freezing to death due to inability to buy food and heating, we should give them a chance to die heroically as cannon fodder next time we invade a resource rich nation. Or we can use them for human testing of chemicals like the Nazis did to their prisoners. As long we get something out of it and it doesn't cost us any money...

 

[JulieW]

From the Daily Mail.
Background to the issue according to this report. Interesting final paragraph.

Abbott is also facing leaks in regards to social services, with a report in the Sunday Telegraph stating that the government's budget razor gang shelved a secret plan to kick millionaires off the aged pension in favour of slashing the indexation of payments for every pensioner in Australia.

The razor gang was asked to consider slashing pension payments to wealthy seniors last year by changing the taper rate, the preferred option of the former minister for social services, Kevin Andrews.

This move would have reversed Howard-era changes that brought more high income seniors into the pension system.

Senior ministers had said they agonised over whether Tony Abbott would be accused of kicking seniors off the pension and breaking an election promise not to cut pensions, the report claims.

Instead, treasury proposed a change to the indexation arrangements for all pensioners, meaning the rate of increase would effectively be slowed, from 2017.

The change was announced in the May budget, with welfare groups and Labor arguing it would cut pensions by $80 a week within 10 years.

The treasurer, Joe Hockey, reportedly preferred treasury's proposal because it would create larger structural savings and would not outwardly breach the government's promise to protect pensions.

The Labor leader, Bill Shorten, said that Abbott had "lied to pensioners before the election".

"Now every single pensioner has to pay the price for that lie."

"It's ridiculous that while the pension is being cut, some multinational corporations are paying little to no tax, and multi-millionaires are receiving new tax breaks from the government.''

Morrison played down the story as "the great revelation that the government decided not to do something".

"This is a story about something that happened over a year ago. I think this story has a use-by date," Morrison said.

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...-around-tony-abbott-after-more-damaging-leaks

 

[Holdfast]

The rich take pensions the poor receive.

 

[hawkeye]

Would it be justified to kill pro-euthanasia proponents and plead self defence?
Personally, being concerned with the ecological impact of a rising population makes me somewhat supportive of depopulation, though I'm yet to find a method I'm morally comfortable with. My perception of humanity being largely ignorant and/or narcissistic helps dampen my ethical resolve though. Question becomes, who deserves to die? And who decides? Chances are the issue will take care of itself eventually via the outcome of chose lifestyle factors.

Depopulation would happen naturally if not for government intervention. The problem is that government has so many ponzi schemes going it needs to encourage breeding. Even so it's not doing a particularly good job, thankfully, but it is encouraging the least responsible in society to breed more. Idiocracy, here we come.

 

[hawkeye]

Lets just face facts please.
There are far far to many living off the backs of others.
We pay enough tax in this house each week to finance an entire family of 5, and we know that money is going to people that think they ARE ENTITLED TO IT.
What do we do about this?
Well i would love to see these people living on the streets and then they would be forced to really make an effort to participate in society, instead of just leaching off it.

Sure there are people that are not fit and healthy enough to work,but if we were not paying so much to support these lowlife leechers then people would be able to willingly support the members of their families that were unhealthy.
This is never going to happen of course.
The only thing we can really do is keep our heads down and do as much income earning work OFF THE BOOKS as we can.
The leechers make me sick (as i personally know plenty) with their I AM ENTITLED to this and that attitude.

Edit:Killing them is NOT an option in my book.
Allowing them to die would be fine though.
Funny thing is, if we allowed them to die i bet they would get their shit together and do whatever was needed to survive.
The survival drive is strong, but if we keep supplying these people with everything they need then this "survival drive" never needs to kick in.

Very well said. People are so eager to jump into all the emotional side of things without actually examining it logically. No-one wants to let people who genuinely need help suffer, but the reality is, this number is far smaller than what most of these people would have you believe. Welfare is completely out of control. But that's what happens when you have one giant charity (the government) that is able to take "donations" at the barrel of a gun, and needs to buy off a certain number of people in society to maintain it's support. We shouldn't expect anything else than what we have.

 

[Holdfast]

Lets just face facts please.
There are far far to many living off the backs of others.
We pay enough tax in this house each week to finance an entire family of 5, and we know that money is going to people that think they ARE ENTITLED TO IT.
What do we do about this?
Well i would love to see these people living on the streets and then they would be forced to really make an effort to participate in society, instead of just leaching off it.

Sure there are people that are not fit and healthy enough to work,but if we were not paying so much to support these lowlife leechers then people would be able to willingly support the members of their families that were unhealthy.
This is never going to happen of course.
The only thing we can really do is keep our heads down and do as much income earning work OFF THE BOOKS as we can.
The leechers make me sick (as i personally know plenty) with their I AM ENTITLED to this and that attitude.

Edit:Killing them is NOT an option in my book.
Allowing them to die would be fine though.
Funny thing is, if we allowed them to die i bet they would get their shit together and do whatever was needed to survive.
The survival drive is strong, but if we keep supplying these people with everything they need then this "survival drive" never needs to kick in.

Very well said. People are so eager to jump into all the emotional side of things without actually examining it logically. No-one wants to let people who genuinely need help suffer, but the reality is, this number is far smaller than what most of these people would have you believe. Welfare is completely out of control. But that's what happens when you have one giant charity (the government) that is able to take "donations" at the barrel of a gun, and needs to buy off a certain number of people in society to maintain it's support. We shouldn't expect anything else than what we have.

Tax payers pay!

 

[lurk@l0t]

Lets just face facts please.
There are far far to many living off the backs of others.
We pay enough tax in this house each week to finance an entire family of 5, and we know that money is going to people that think they ARE ENTITLED TO IT.
What do we do about this?
Well i would love to see these people living on the streets and then they would be forced to really make an effort to participate in society, instead of just leaching off it.

Sure there are people that are not fit and healthy enough to work,but if we were not paying so much to support these lowlife leechers then people would be able to willingly support the members of their families that were unhealthy.
This is never going to happen of course.
The only thing we can really do is keep our heads down and do as much income earning work OFF THE BOOKS as we can.
The leechers make me sick (as i personally know plenty) with their I AM ENTITLED to this and that attitude.

Edit:Killing them is NOT an option in my book.
Allowing them to die would be fine though.
Funny thing is, if we allowed them to die i bet they would get their shit together and do whatever was needed to survive.
The survival drive is strong, but if we keep supplying these people with everything they need then this "survival drive" never needs to kick in.

Very well said. People are so eager to jump into all the emotional side of things without actually examining it logically. No-one wants to let people who genuinely need help suffer, but the reality is, this number is far smaller than what most of these people would have you believe. Welfare is completely out of control. But that's what happens when you have one giant charity (the government) that is able to take "donations" at the barrel of a gun, and needs to buy off a certain number of people in society to maintain it's support. We shouldn't expect anything else than what we have.

Tax payers pay!

Tax payers pray!!

 

[AngloSaxon]

I'm entering middle age. I've known since Primary School that there will be no aged pension by the time I'm old enough to be eligible. After a misspent youth I'm planning accordingly and minimise my own tax as much as I can.

I agree with the sentiment of the original link, as dubious as it is. The entitlement mentality is sinking the western world.

 

[systematic]

Janet Yellen is as sweet as home made apple pie .... maybe she could roll a few off the printing presses for a good cause ....

 

[Golden Retriever]

Depopulation would happen naturally if not for government intervention. The problem is that government has so many ponzi schemes going it needs to encourage breeding. Even so it's not doing a particularly good job, thankfully, but it is encouraging the least responsible in society to breed more. Idiocracy, here we come.

^This... It's the system that's broken and the idea of killing off the elderly to keep it going a little longer is unconscionable. How long are we going to keep putting band aids on this thing before we start addressing the root causes?

I'll probably get flamed for this but I also find it interesting what some people's idea of a free ride is. The overall prosperity of this world is the aggregate of every hour of productive labour that each person contributes. Things like farming, manufacturing, construction, engineering, science, health care work etc. It seems to me that at the moment the vast majority of this prosperity is being enjoyed by an extraordinarily small percentage of people who, in a lot of cases, have never done a productive days work in their life. So who's really getting the free ride here?

 

[Newtosilver]

Depopulation would happen naturally if not for government intervention. The problem is that government has so many ponzi schemes going it needs to encourage breeding. Even so it's not doing a particularly good job, thankfully, but it is encouraging the least responsible in society to breed more. Idiocracy, here we come.

^This... It's the system that's broken and the idea of killing off the elderly to keep it going a little longer is unconscionable. How long are we going to keep putting band aids on this thing before we start addressing the root causes?

I'll probably get flamed for this but I also find it interesting what some people's idea of a free ride is. The overall prosperity of this world is the aggregate of every hour of productive labour that each person contributes. Things like farming, manufacturing, construction, engineering, science, health care work etc. It seems to me that at the moment the vast majority of this prosperity is being enjoyed by an extraordinarily small percentage of people who, in a lot of cases, have never done a productive days work in their life. So who's really getting the free ride here?

Socialist - I just wanted to get in first before someone else did. Your views whilst the same as probably 99% of the population are not going to be popular here

 

[systematic]

It seems people really do think fiat is precious and has value after all .... let the poor wither and die because there isnt enough "money" ...

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws"
attributed to Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

 

[Golden Retriever]

Socialist - I just wanted to get in first before someone else did. Your views whilst the same as probably 99% of the population are not going to be popular here

I knew it wouldn't take long.

 

[hawkeye]

^This... It's the system that's broken and the idea of killing off the elderly to keep it going a little longer is unconscionable. How long are we going to keep putting band aids on this thing before we start addressing the root causes?

The system isn't broken. It's working how it always has. That's the problem. It's a static system in a changing, evolving world. People assuming that the system can be fixed are the biggest problem. It's like all those guys in Soviet Russia saying that communism could be fixed. No it couldn't. Our system has fundamental economic and ethical problems built in from the start. It's slightly more stable than communism (which lasted 70 years in Russia!!) because unlike the Russians we have a significant free market whereas they tried to centrally plan everything. But ultimately, Central planning does not work and must be rejected.

 

[Golden Retriever]

^This... It's the system that's broken and the idea of killing off the elderly to keep it going a little longer is unconscionable. How long are we going to keep putting band aids on this thing before we start addressing the root causes?

The system isn't broken. It's working how it always has. That's the problem. It's a static system in a changing, evolving world. People assuming that the system can be fixed are the biggest problem. It's like all those guys in Soviet Russia saying that communism could be fixed. No it couldn't. Our system has fundamental economic and ethical problems built in from the start. It's slightly more stable than communism (which lasted 70 years in Russia!!) because unlike the Russians we have a significant free market whereas they tried to centrally plan everything. But ultimately, Central planning does not work and must be rejected.

100% agree. I should have said the system is fundamentally flawed.

It's time for a new one.