Oz Banks vs Crypto Accounts

JulieW

JulieW

Well-Known Member
Silver Stacker
This might be worth examining if you're into realising returns:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/bitc...-freezing-their-accounts-20171229-p4yy3z.html

Bitcoin investors are claiming Australia's banks are freezing their accounts and transfers to cryptocurrency exchanges, with a viral tweet slamming the big four and an exchange platform putting a restriction on Australian deposits.

Cryptocurrency trader and Youtuber Alex Saunders called out National Australia Bank, ANZ, the Commonwealth Bank of Australia and Westpac Banking Corporation on Twitter for freezing customer accounts and transfers to four different bitcoin exchanges - CoinJar, CoinSpot, CoinBase and BTC Markets.
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they big banks are stopping the flow of fiat into crypto.

trade is going to costs more now, and have to use shape shift..
 
this is what I wanted to point out with my question in the other crypto thread...
 
Why would you ever condemn yourself to such an arrangement in the first place ?
Being reliant upon a Bank to veto what you already own is Ludicrous.
 
It seems hackers are breaking into peoples bank accounts and doing bank transfers into bitcoin exchanges so they can get bitcoin (because bitcoin can't be taken from them). Pretty simple.

And because this has happened enough times now the banks are making sure their clients are wanting to do those transfers. Banks suck.
 
willrocks said:
If this is the reason. Which I doubt it is. The bank's response should be to increase security measures.
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Them blocking transfers is them increasing "security measures". People who aren't hacked and are doing real bank transfers are being penalized here, it is the idiots who cannot keep their bank accounts safe costing the rest of us. It isn't hard to not install shitware on a computer or phone, and if you need to install shitware then you need to use a separate device to do internet banking. It is easy.
 
willrocks said:
Hacking phones isn't easy.
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Easy, not easy, doesn't really matter if it is happening.


willrocks said:
If phones being hacked were the real problem the hackers would find other bank accounts to transfer money to. Blacklisting some transfers wouldn't solve this problem at all.
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Solve the problem? Of course what the banks are doing won't solve it and criminals will come up with new methods to get irreversible bitcoins.
 
willrocks said:
All the criminals need is to transfer it overseas to another bank, then into a bitcoin exchange. So, in your hypothetical, your imagined solution wouldn't even solve the current problem.
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Except international bank transfers are much harder to do with most bank accounts in Australia and are way more likely to get looked at for fraud.

Domestic bank transfers are way more common and take a day or two usually. Hackers have access to accounts all around the world and usually onsell the details to people who actually commit the fraud. So in all likelihood it is someone in Australia using bought details to commit fraud with their knowledge of the Australian system.

I'm not really sure what you think my solution is anyhow, it is what the banks are doing and it is their "solution", a bad one. But banks can't do much anyhow when customers get hacked.
 
willrocks said:
I worked in bank IT.
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Before smartphones existed?

willrocks said:
In 5 years there was never a single case of a phone being hacked resulting in a funds transfer. There were plenty of other reasons (i.e. customers leaving sign-in details around, fraud with ex spouses and kids ... etc). But never a phone hack being the cause of funds being transferred. And if it were possible, the criminals would do a big-bang attack, transferring from multiple hacked phones in a very short period.

So I think your whole hypothetical situation is just that, and I'd be interested in seeing any news sources that back it up.
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Literally just a couple threads down in this forum we have a member from here who had his mobile phone number changed and likely had got hacked or had his identity stolen prior to all of it occurring.
https://www.silverstackers.com/foru...yptos-got-hacked-learn-from-my-mistake.87204/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/business/dealbook/phone-hack-bitcoin-virtual-currency.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/79r1o1/stolen_bitcoin_on_gemini/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=188796.0

willrocks said:
In addition if phone hacking were possible. Wouldn't it just be easier for hackers to steal bitcoins held in mobile bitcoin wallets?
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Most australian cell phone users have australian bank accounts. Most australian cell phone users do not have mobile bitcoin accounts. When a hack happens keyloggers, website spying,phone logging, sms logging and other malware is installed. This happens on iphone and android phones and usually starts with installing some shitty app. If you have a bitcoin account on your phone it will be emptied first thing. When you log into your bank account that will be logged and saved for the hacker allowing them to log into your bank account and start doing transfers. If you worked in IT I find it odd you do not know about this.
 
willrocks said:
No. From 2012. I developed smartphone apps for IOS and android.

I'm not saying it's impossible. But again, it's extremely rare because the phone operating systems isolate apps from other apps and secure parts of the operating system. Hacking a smartphone in the way you describe above probably so rare that it has never affected any Australian bank's smartphone app. I know for a fact it never happened while I was working at the bank, and there were over half a million customers using the app daily.
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So apps can't install themselves as a VPN (read all network data), read SMS, read phone, record keystrokes without needing root access or an OS vulnerability? What about create an outbound connection to the hackers server? And you developed apps before? Ok.
 
willrocks said:
I'll speak for IOS because that's where I have the most experience. No, SMS messages can't be read by any apps. No, apps can't install themselves as VPN and read all data, and even if they could they couldn't break the pinned SSL certificates. No, they can't read phone, or read keystrokes in other applications. Apps can create outbound connection to a hackers server, but only in the context of the hacker's app. If there have been OS vulnerabilities they are rectified very quickly.

Like I said. I doubt there's even one case of a bank transfer being initiated by a smartphone hack. I've never seen or heard of it happening. Not a number porting hack like you posted. An actual hack of the smartphone.

And getting back to the topic. You stated banks are stopping transfers to crypto exchanges because phones are being hacked to send funds to crypto exchanges. I doubt this is happening (or has ever happened) in reality. If it is I certainly haven't seen any evidence of it, and can't see banks even stating this is the reason. Banks seem more concerned with KYC and KYCC regulations.
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Well you should research what is possible on android because after all, it does consume a large percentage of the mobile market.

Along with stealing login details, the malware can also intercept two-factor authentication codes sent to the phone via SMS — forwarding the code to hackers while hiding it from the owner of the phone. With access to this information, thieves can bypass a bank's security measures to log into the victims' online banking account from anywhere in the world and transfer funds.
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http://www.smh.com.au/technology/co...eals-twofactor-sms-codes-20160309-gnf528.html

Not one case of a phone hack stealing money? You should do a little research before forming opinions.
 
willrocks said:
And getting back to the topic. You stated banks are stopping transfers to crypto exchanges because phones are being hacked to send funds to crypto exchanges. I doubt this is happening (or has ever happened) in reality. If it is I certainly haven't seen any evidence of it, and can't see banks even stating this is the reason. Banks seem more concerned with KYC and KYCC regulations.
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Well to spell it out to you, what happens is the hackers hijack australian bank accounts through various means and send money to places which accept bitcoins. Now when the customer eventually finds out about this transfer of their funds out of their account they call the bank and complain, the bank looks into it and sees where the money is going. In some of the cases bitcoin exchange bank accounts are the destination which then makes them suspected of participating in this fraud, hence the higher strictness when sending to the accounts owned by these places and also account closures.

I don't pretend to know every way these hackers operate once they have hijacked bank accounts but it is very easy to know what they want. They want to get out of bank controlled fiat as it can be taken away from them, and into cryptocurrencies which cannot.

There are thousands of Australians bank login details available for purchase on the darkweb. I'd like to know how you think they obtained this information? The only real way is to hack the computers they log into them with, and most people use phones for internet banking. The conclusion thus is there are thousands of Australian users with malware infected smartphones.
 
jerrygold said:
Before smartphones existed?



Literally just a couple threads down in this forum we have a member from here who had his mobile phone number changed and likely had got hacked or had his identity stolen prior to all of it occurring.
https://www.silverstackers.com/foru...yptos-got-hacked-learn-from-my-mistake.87204/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/business/dealbook/phone-hack-bitcoin-virtual-currency.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/79r1o1/stolen_bitcoin_on_gemini/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=188796.0
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Hi Guys,

Let me see if I can help you guys settle this, I'm the guy whose account got hacked, so I speak from experience, and also from a place of speaking to the banks, telcos, crypto exchangs and the police.

Firstly, It is incredibly easy to port someones mobile number without their consent, all you need is a bogus credit card number and you can create an online account with some of the smaller telcos to interept 2FA messges. There is nothing the bank can do to stop this, and it is actually the primary means of hacking that's been going on in Australia for the past 6-12 months according to the policewoman I reported my case to. So the banks, telco's and police are aware of this.

I can't blame the banks for trying to protect themselves either. Under law they have to guarantee any hacks and lost funds that take place on a persons account. They aren't targeting crypto's specifically, it's just that these exchanges are easy to transfer money into and send BTC out of. If a hacker got your bank account details and transfered money into their bank account, the bank can trace it and reverse the transaction. They can't do the same with crypto exchanges.

I also can't blame the exchanges either, the group who held my account that got hacked have been VERY helpful, and unfortunately they are getting the short end of the stick right now.

At the end of the day, the reason the banks are putting these measures into place is because they are losing money and they need to do something about it. No one wants the hackers to win, and at the end of the day a stronger and more secure crypto network will be better for everyone.

Cheers,
Sammy
 
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guys, your mostly all wrong.
Yes, there is thousands being sent into crypto, from stolen/hacked bank accounts, and now that experienced traders know how to identify them, they also use mules
Yes its very easy to have fake apps that steal all your details and cash out on your phone. You dont get these random msgs with some link that you think is from a friend? even if only 1% clicked on such links they risk compromising their phones.
A simple google search would have shown this up, the first major one was "fanta SDK" now i google and one shows up from last year http://www.news.com.au/technology/g...s/news-story/f2f71d0b88f456c70ea9dc5c52640f9a

how do I know its possible? I have been the victim of many attempts to cash out stolen funds.
how do I know the banks dont care? got it from their compliance teams themselves.

However the real reason the bank accounts are suddenly being closed is thanks to regulations.
AML, regulations require banks to identify the source and destination of funds, and to ensure no money laundering.
Since btc is able to be sent anywhere in the world, to anyone to unverified addresses, this makes it a major laundering currency.
currency being the key word, until 3 weeks ago it was not officially recognized as a currency, but thanks to all the idiots that thought regulations was a good thing, it now being recognized means banks have to ensure that people dealing with it have appropriate ways in place to trace and ensure that funds are being used cleanly.........means same as coinbase, australian exchanges will now be tracking and tracing and running a taint analysis on all your transactions.

I never understood the demand for regulations and control, if people wanted that they should have been using paypal, but regardless, there is no cure for stupidity.

Suggest people who feel strongly approach their local MP about it, cause the way I look at the laws that passed, the senate had no clear understanding on what they were voting.
Secondly, once implemented, there is nothing preventing the police running a sting on people trying to exchange or cash out on forums such as this, and we ending up with the kinds of charges that are being targeted with traders in the US.
I will also state, that yes we have had these US style warrants and seizures that we see in the US happening here in Australia, I myself was also a victim of it, but im not the only one. The key point is that until the regulations are enforced, we weren't doing anything wrong, but thats about to change.

Also, submit any objections here.
http://www.austrac.gov.au/draft-aml-ctf-rules
 
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