[opinion] 2012 Singapore coin show proof panda

Justfishin said:
I had ordered the 5 oz, but after seeing some auctions for graded ones with only about $100 return--I cancelled my order---would rather buy 2012 pandas with spot where it is. See link-

http://stacksbowers.com/auctions/AuctionLot.aspx?LotID=329055

http://stacksbowers.com/auctions/AuctionLot.aspx?LotID=329024
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That auction hasn't even started, not sure where you get the $100 return from.

The estimated values are WAY off on the down side to lure in potential bidders looking for a bargain.

Here's a PF68 that sold on eBay: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1986-Chi...781?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1091af9d
 
Allow me to say something though in no way I am a panda collector, yet.

1. Following China law, issuance (including design, denomation, weight, date of issuance, etc) of precious metal commemorative coins are determined by People's Bank of China. For historical and political theme, approval from China government are required.

2. The law is not applicable to medal. Medal has no denomination and is not a legal tender. Apart from the China Mint (Shanghai, Shenyang, Shenzen), any legal company in China can produce any medal.

3. It is my understanding (so I could be wrong) here. Any individual (or organization) can approach any of these company to produce medal for their own purpose.

Hence, my opinion on the Singapore coin show proof panda.

1. Is it "real" Chinese panda medal? I don't know how real is considered real. If Munich or Long Beach panda is considered real panda, I see no reason why Singapore panda is not real panda.

2. Is it official? Again it depends on how official is official. Medals are not issued by People's Bank of China. As far as I am concerned, none of the medals (whether they were produced by the China Mint or private issue) are non-official issue.

3. If it is non-official, does it affect collector or numismatic value? Of course no.

4. Now this is purely my opinion, and I could be completely wrong. I think Panda America initiated the project of the issuance of the panda medal in promoting the coin show. IMHO, the so called first coin show medal in 15 years is a brilliant marketing strategy. It is exclusive to Panda America because that is their baby. I believe the mintage figure is irrelevant here. The marketing is.

5. Will the medal perform equally well with Munich or Long Beach medal? Again IMHO, I suspect perhaps a little difficult. I see the Singapore coin show is mainly Panda America thing. I am not sure if the coin show get any mention in China or whether the Mint does involve in the show.

I believe the future performance of this medal is heavily depends on how successful Panda America in promoting the Singapore coin show. I hate that. So I am not excited about the medal.

6. There is nothing right or wrong whether if you buy or don't buy.
 
low said:
Allow me to say something though in no way I am a panda collector, yet.

1. Following China law, issuance (including design, denomation, weight, date of issuance, etc) of precious metal commemorative coins are determined by People's Bank of China. For historical and political theme, approval from China government are required.

2. The law is not applicable to medal. Medal has no denomination and is not a legal tender. Apart from the China Mint (Shanghai, Shenyang, Shenzen), any legal company in China can produce any medal.

3. It is my understanding (so I could be wrong) here. Any individual (or organization) can approach any of these company to produce medal for their own purpose.

Hence, my opinion on the Singapore coin show proof panda.

1. Is it "real" Chinese panda medal? I don't know how real is considered real. If Munich or Long Beach panda is considered real panda, I see no reason why Singapore panda is not real panda.

2. Is it official? Again it depends on how official is official. Medals are not issued by People's Bank of China. As far as I am concerned, none of the medals (whether they were produced by the China Mint or private issue) are non-official issue.

3. If it is non-official, does it affect collector or numismatic value? Of course no.

4. Now this is purely my opinion, and I could be completely wrong. I think Panda America initiated the project of the issuance of the panda medal in promoting the coin show. IMHO, the so called first coin show medal in 15 years is a brilliant marketing strategy. It is exclusive to Panda America because that is their baby. I believe the mintage figure is irrelevant here. The marketing is.

5. Will the medal perform equally well with Munich or Long Beach medal? Again IMHO, I suspect perhaps a little difficult. I see the Singapore coin show is mainly Panda America thing. I am not sure if the coin show get any mention in China or whether the Mint does involve in the show.

I believe the future performance of this medal is heavily depends on how successful Panda America in promoting the Singapore coin show. I hate that. So I am not excited about the medal.

6. There is nothing right or wrong whether if you buy or don't buy.
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Very well said, I could not have said it any better ... love it when logical reasoning and common sense come to light.

Some people are way over thinking a simple medal :D
 
fishball said:
That auction hasn't even started, not sure where you get the $100 return from
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Yea I was thinking the same thing. Anyone who has watched these auctions knows that what is "estimated" is usually far off of the "realized" prices :)
 
Coming from a singaporean point of view , i think this medal is nice looking .
Official is what Panda Amercia claim but do not think they will dare to claim this if they do not have some
"official" backing from the mint's itself . Nice write up from the marketing point of view .
Does my investment affected by the Munich medal success ? Of course it does
But does it meant it will do well , hmmmm I cannot read the future.
I can only based on past facts of the munich's medal.
As a stock trader , i think to invest in anything within your means . Never put all eggs in one basket .
Spread your investment over different coins should be fine .
Just another few more coins throw inside my safe box to stack them for my little gal . That all.
Lets look again in another 15 years to see how well this medal does :)
 
Lim said:
But does it meant it will do well , hmmmm I cannot read the future.
I can only based on past facts of the munich's medal.
As a stock trader , i think to invest in anything within your means . Never put all eggs in one basket .
Spread your investment over different coins should be fine .
Just another few more coins throw inside my safe box to stack them for my little gal . That all.
Lets look again in another 15 years to see how well this medal does :)
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very well say. I think the same
Never put all eggs in one basket.
And i will add a good advise (not relevant with mcc but very relevant in financial sucessfull)
The better investments is the cashflows generadors.
For example: stocks (dividends aristocrats, rents, fixed income) and only a few of no cashflows (numismatics, precious metals)
If you make it well. You will buy the numismatics with cashflows and dont have problem if the value fluctuate. But if you need to sell mcc for living and the value is now cheap is a bad thing. The same with stocks withouth dividends.
 
I would buy this one

China 2012 30th Anniversary of the Panda Series 5 oz Silver Proof Coin

http://www.pandaamerica.com/details.asp?item=10567&grp=1&categ=1

cns2012panda30thaniv_5oz_tmp.jpg


0.25oz

1-4-oz-silver-coin.jpg


http://news.coinupdate.com/thirtieth-anniversary-chinese-gold-and-silver-panda-coins-1284/
 
low said:
Allow me to say something though in no way I am a panda collector, yet.

1. Following China law, issuance (including design, denomation, weight, date of issuance, etc) of precious metal commemorative coins are determined by People's Bank of China. For historical and political theme, approval from China government are required.

2. The law is not applicable to medal. Medal has no denomination and is not a legal tender. Apart from the China Mint (Shanghai, Shenyang, Shenzen), any legal company in China can produce any medal.

3. It is my understanding (so I could be wrong) here. Any individual (or organization) can approach any of these company to produce medal for their own purpose.

Hence, my opinion on the Singapore coin show proof panda.

1. Is it "real" Chinese panda medal? I don't know how real is considered real. If Munich or Long Beach panda is considered real panda, I see no reason why Singapore panda is not real panda.

2. Is it official? Again it depends on how official is official. Medals are not issued by People's Bank of China. As far as I am concerned, none of the medals (whether they were produced by the China Mint or private issue) are non-official issue.

3. If it is non-official, does it affect collector or numismatic value? Of course no.

4. Now this is purely my opinion, and I could be completely wrong. I think Panda America initiated the project of the issuance of the panda medal in promoting the coin show. IMHO, the so called first coin show medal in 15 years is a brilliant marketing strategy. It is exclusive to Panda America because that is their baby. I believe the mintage figure is irrelevant here. The marketing is.

5. Will the medal perform equally well with Munich or Long Beach medal? Again IMHO, I suspect perhaps a little difficult. I see the Singapore coin show is mainly Panda America thing. I am not sure if the coin show get any mention in China or whether the Mint does involve in the show.

I believe the future performance of this medal is heavily depends on how successful Panda America in promoting the Singapore coin show. I hate that. So I am not excited about the medal.

6. There is nothing right or wrong whether if you buy or don't buy.
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If it's the "baby of Panda America" I think it is totally misleading that they write that "China issues their first show medal [...]" and "Official medal from the China Mint". What's "China Mint" BTW? I only know of "Central Mint of China" in Taiwan.

I also don't think non-Chinese pandas are "real" as in beeing related to the PBOC panda coin series. I could myself google some panda image from the net and make medals from that in Shenzhen or Shanghai. Is it then a "Chinese panda medal"? No.

CGCI is owned by the Chinese government, so if CGCI issuses a medal I guess one could say that it's an "official medal" (even if the CGCI branches are quite independent).

And again about the comparison with Munich and Long Beach medals, can someone tell who issued these?
 
Coming from Singapore myself, I have spoken to some of my friends who collect MCC and they all admit that this year's coin show is going to be pretty popular among the local crowd. There's alot of interest in the panda medals and I'm quietly confident that the 5oz silver medals will be sold out during the coin show.

Panda America has also started a huge marketing campaign in Singapore via the local newspapers and magazines.

2557_photo_1.jpg
 
excited to go the coin show tmr. prob be their at 10 when doors open. this event seems huge. i've only been to smaller coin shows so a little bit nervous plus so many big time dealers I've only seen their websites and ebay store. they have massive inventory. just going to try and soak in the atmosphere and enjoy the event.

planning to buy a coin or 2 thats nice. hopefully I find some nice bargains there cause I'm going to be a budjet lol.

if anyone of you see a young(relatively) asian guy in black shorts speaking bad chinese in flip flops and a black backpack feel free to say hi.
 
Those going to the show , please prepare more cash as credit card most probably will be subjected to higher cost. :)
 
Lim said:
Coming from a singaporean point of view , i think this medal is nice looking .
Official is what Panda Amercia claim but do not think they will dare to claim this if they do not have some
"official" backing from the mint's itself . Nice write up from the marketing point of view .
Does my investment affected by the Munich medal success ? Of course it does
But does it meant it will do well , hmmmm I cannot read the future.
I can only based on past facts of the munich's medal.
As a stock trader , i think to invest in anything within your means . Never put all eggs in one basket .
Spread your investment over different coins should be fine .
Just another few more coins throw inside my safe box to stack them for my little gal . That all.
Lets look again in another 15 years to see how well this medal does :)
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Excellent!!!!!!!!!! I bought 5 of the 1 oz my twins are 2.5 .......... so when its time to go to college they can sell 3 if they like, and keep 2 for their collection:)
 
mfm said:
I don't know much about it, that's why I asked
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Maybe I misinterpreted you but since you seem to be an expert on everything regarding these medals, I answered your question mock seriously as I am not on your level of knowledge related to these medals. Considering all of your comments I assumed that you knew everything about them.

It seems to be an American thing pushed by Panda America, so the comparison with older panda medals doesn't really make sense
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If you do not know who issued it, why doesn't it make sense?

For the price and the trouble of ordering from the US I personally wouldn't bother.
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then why are you bothering? You seem to have a lot of comments on a medal that doesn't interest you at all.

If it was a real Chinese panda it wouldn't be a Panda America exclusive.
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Another assumption unless you know for sure, you have already stated that you don't know much about this medal but now you do all of a sudden? Since Panda America is one of the official distributors of Chinese Coins, why would this be so out of line? The Chinese Mint doesn't seem to mind the huge profits from these medals and all other MCC coins it has eagerly let Panda America unload on collectors.

If it was presented. sold and bought as "A neat coin show medal that happens to have a panda on it" all would be well and I wouldn't be writing this.
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Maybe they need to get your permission or approval next time so that your wishes and requests can possibly be accommodated.

But now there is a lot of hype surrounding it, including from the official distributor, with implicit or explicit expectations of huge profits in the future, including direct comparisons with the Munich medal etc.
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Panda America is a business. Just like any other business they are going to advertise and promote what they are selling. I don't know where "all the hype is" lol All I have seen is an advertisement in a newspaper and others on forums making comments. There is no more hype surrounding this coin that other coin releases I have seen. I think you need to relax a little, if you are not interested in these medals simply don't buy them.

The actual mint is largely irrelevant
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I disagree it's very relevant.

The original poster asked about the investment potential, but hype, hope and wishful thinking alone makes for bad investment advice.
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The original poster asked if these medals are a good buy the other members including myself answered to the best of our ability with "O P I N I O N S". I did not see the "hype", "hope" or "wishful thinking", just honest opinions from different perspectives. Nobody (including you) has any idea how these medals will perform over time so any comments related to performance are only opinions.

I don't think anyone asking questions on an open internet forum bases their entire investment strategy exclusively on what the other forum members say and if they do then obviously they have deeper issues than what medal to spend their $200 on.

This has gotten a bit comical about whether it's a good idea to buy or not to buy this simple Chinese medal I'm happy to buy one and could really give a fck less if someone does not buy one or feels "it's an American thing", "it's unofficial", "it's not authorized", "Panda America is pushing them" or whatever crazy exchange euphemisms are spouted.

Either way there is no right or wrong ! :D
 
I have no interest in wasting time on mock replies, but some FACTS are:

If an American company designs and issues a medal the statement "issued by China" is obviously wrong, regardless of the actual mint. It's not a "Chinese medal" any more than an iPod is a "Chinese tablet computer".

Panda America has no special standing as a distrbutor, there are dozens of official distributors all over the world and it doesn't make any of them PRC companies.

What company sold for how many dollars or who has the most coins is completely irrelevant.
 
The 5oz was sold out so people who wanted to buy it was ask to leave behind their details .
Bought another 2 more 1 oz .
So in total i have 1-5oz and 4 1oz . A pity is that they cut the plastic package . :(
 
Lim said:
The 5oz was sold out so people who wanted to buy it was ask to leave behind their details .
Bought another 2 more 1 oz .
So in total i have 1-5oz and 4 1oz . A pity is that they cut the plastic package . :(
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Sounds cool for people who bought 5oz.

Any idea why they ask people who want to buy to leave their details? Are they going to produce more?
 
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