Off-grid suburb a 'perfect storm' for energy giants

[whinfell]

Off-grid suburb a 'perfect storm' for energy giants

Australian energy companies are facing a "perfect storm" as renewable alternatives are hastening the move to off-grid electricity.

Earlier this month US energy giant Brookfield announced it had signed a deal with property group LWP to build a new suburb near Newcastle, NSW, powered entirely off-grid, challenging incumbent industries to adapt or perish.

The move has enormous implications for rural and regional communities throughout Australia where the tyranny of distance has often led to towns becoming stranded at the far end of a very long energy line.

But rather than diversify, some energy companies have lobbied governments to make going off-grid a crime.

In June US courts in the state of Florida ruled it illegal to go off-grid.

Earlier this year the (then) Abbott government instructed the $10 million "green bank" Clean Energy Finance Corporation to stop investing in wind power and to exclude direct investment in small-scale solar.

Professor Andrew Blakers, Director at the Centre for Sustainable Energy Systems, told Fairfax incumbents ought to adapt and diversify or else face "dire consequences".

"Competition from [solar], wind and storage will penalise companies that imagine that their business models don't have to change," he said.

More here: http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/busine...-storm-for-energy-giants-20151207-glh7l5.html

 

[SpacePete]

How could they make it illegal to go off grid???

I'd go off-grid even if it is a bit more expensive just because energy companies are c*nts, and because I like the idea of being somewhat independent of any large scale grid failure.

 

[smk762]

How could they make it illegal to go off grid???

I'd go off-grid even if it is a bit more expensive just because energy companies are c*nts, and because I like the idea of being somewhat independent of any large scale grid failure.

Also applies to rainwater in some states - http://www.naturalnews.com/029286_rainwater_collection_water.html

You may not be aware of this, but many Western states, including Utah, Washington and Colorado, have long outlawed individuals from collecting rainwater on their own properties because, according to officials, that rain belongs to someone else.

As bizarre as it sounds, laws restricting property owners from "diverting" water that falls on their own homes and land have been on the books for quite some time in many Western states. Only recently, as droughts and renewed interest in water conservation methods have become more common, have individuals and business owners started butting heads with law enforcement over the practice of collecting rainwater for personal use.

 

[SilverDJ]

You may not be aware of this, but many Western states, including Utah, Washington and Colorado, have long outlawed individuals from collecting rainwater on their own properties because, according to officials, that rain belongs to someone else.
As bizarre as it sounds, laws restricting property owners from "diverting" water that falls on their own homes and land have been on the books for quite some time in many Western states. Only recently, as droughts and renewed interest in water conservation methods have become more common, have individuals and business owners started butting heads with law enforcement over the practice of collecting rainwater for personal use.

At least we have sensible laws here in this regards thanks the BASIX.
New homes must have rainwater tanks in order to meet the requirements.

 

[SilverDJ]

How could they make it illegal to go off grid???

No idea about that stae law, but I doubt they could make you pay for electricity if you didn't want it. But they could very likely force you to maintain the physical connection. Just like physically disconnecting your sewerage system is not allowed in many places as they deem it to be basic community infrastructure.

 

[Clawhammer]

Another option rather than totally "off-grid" is to not be "non-grid reliant". That is maintain a connection, but have diversified options. LPG, Solar-battery, diesel generator.

The problem with having a single service provider is you've got no leverage. They dictate the terms of the agreement. By diversifying, you have the ability to stop (or drastically minimise) you usage of one provider and switch to another cheaper option (until they get too cocky). Dual fuel car i.e. petrol/LPG drivers have been doing this for years.

Of course we currently only really have mains electricity or relatively inefficent home battery banks. But the Tesla Power Wall will improve the situation... as will home multi-fuel compatible fuel cell systems if they ever get going.

 

[yennus]

How could they make it illegal to go off grid???

Give them time... if found to be profitable, collecting your own water and sun will likely be illegal or taxed.

They will probably call it a "Water" or "Energy" tax. After all, they've taxed fireplaces in the past.

Already in place, people that run an off-grid septic system often need to pay for that privilege by paying for the council to inspect it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGHY8XpM6oI[/youtube]

 

[errol43]

^^^Blue and Red team needs your vote..

According to the Australian Debt clock, the nation owes $432 billion plus state, local, business and personal debt.

^^^no mention of the banks and their Derivatives...Are they insolvent?

Regards Errol 43

 

[hiho]

going off grid is problematic in the sense you need a backup energy source, i.e. generator
with the advent of companys like Reposit power you can now resell your excess energy at a peak price so being connected
can have it's benefits

 

[Stoic Phoenix]

going off grid is problematic in the sense you need a backup energy source, i.e. generator
with the advent of companys like Reposit power you can now resell your excess energy at a peak price so being connected
can have it's benefits

May not be as hard as you think...Tesla Power Wall, available around Xmas in Australia

 

[mmm....shiney!]

going off grid is problematic in the sense you need a backup energy source, i.e. generator
with the advent of companys like Reposit power you can now resell your excess energy at a peak price so being connected
can have it's benefits

May not be as hard as you think...Tesla Power Wall, available around Xmas in Australia

Easy if you say it quickly -10thousanddollarseach.

 

[Stoic Phoenix]

Newly available to consumer technology always comes with a premium...you honestly think it will still be 10k in a year or two?

 

[Skyrocket]

going off grid is problematic in the sense you need a backup energy source, i.e. generator
with the advent of companys like Reposit power you can now resell your excess energy at a peak price so being connected
can have it's benefits

May not be as hard as you think...Tesla Power Wall, available around Xmas in Australia

Easy if you say it quickly -10thousanddollarseach.

10 thousand is a ripoff imo. A bank of deep cycle (fork lift) batteries does the job just fine. I got that setup on my rural retreat and I never had to fire up the generator. Mind you I don't live there but I once stayed there for a week with four cloudy days in a row and they went to half charge.

 

[hyphenated]

Powerwall has points for being seriously trendy, points for a reputable battery manufacturer (Panasonic), but loses rapidly on gouging potential from suppliers, actual real-world capacity, necessity for inverter electronics and control and (potentially) survivability. There will probably be a stampede, a lot of money will be spent, then reality may set in. Well-heeled Tesla owners will delight in having a wall full of 'em and a white-glove garage area.

Lots of people who cannot realistically go off-grid will think they can.

Good news? It raises the level of awareness.

Taking a suburb off-grid is actually a better proposition, but requires some seriously deep pockets. You can, however, pick up ex-mining generators in the megawatt range for sod-all, and oil is going to be cheap for a while whist OPEC and the hedge funds trash the suppliers.

 

[hiho]

give it three years and it will be worth the investment, ATM the best rate of return you can get is approx 20c/kw/h which is cheaper than peak rates but not off peak rates, if you wanna do it for the green factor then the cost may not bother you.
I'll stick with my 6.5kW of panels which save me approximately 300/quarter and will pay for intself in 4 years.

 

[mmm....shiney!]

Newly available to consumer technology always comes with a premium...you honestly think it will still be 10k in a year or two?

No, but you'll need more than one.

It will suit mid-range energy users only (families and those who burn every electrical appliance in the world). Those with low power bills (like my household, abt $300/quarter) or those with high energy bills (like my business, abt $2000/quarter) will not get a substantial return in savings on their grid supplied electricity if they connect to solar. Currently, grid supplied electricity is dirt cheap. Even in 2 or 3 years it would still probably not be a realistic alternative when you factor in the supply and installation costs of a solar array, inverters, batteries and the insurance to protect your investment.

I did a quick back of the envelope calculation for our business - we would have to spend in excess of $80 000 to replace our grid dependence in our business. And that would only give us enough power for daily use, not even enough for any in reserve in the event of poor weather. A battery system that is constantly being run down at night in order to supply our electrical needs when the sun doesn't shine is not going to give us any capital longevity.

The other way of looking at it is that if more and more people shift to alternative sources of energy, the old energy companies may have to offer cheaper power in order to retain customers. Remembering most of the charges are actually levied at the transmission stage, not the production and the governments are the ones that decide how much to charge. If they got their nose out of the trough then we'd all be better off.

Going "green" is never my primary motive, the "bottom line" always takes precedence, if I can manage what goes out the back door (reduce consumption), then I am in a better position to absorb costs.

 

[renovator]

Newly available to consumer technology always comes with a premium...you honestly think it will still be 10k in a year or two?

No, but you'll need more than one.

It will suit mid-range energy users only (families and those who burn every electrical appliance in the world). Those with low power bills (like my household, abt $300/quarter) or those with high energy bills (like my business, abt $2000/quarter) will not get a substantial return in savings on their grid supplied electricity if they connect to solar. Currently, grid supplied electricity is dirt cheap. Even in 2 or 3 years it would still probably not be a realistic alternative when you factor in the supply and installation costs of a solar array, inverters, batteries and the insurance to protect your investment.

I did a quick back of the envelope calculation for our business - we would have to spend in excess of $80 000 to replace our grid dependence in our business. And that would only give us enough power for daily use, not even enough for any in reserve in the event of poor weather. A battery system that is constantly being run down at night in order to supply our electrical needs when the sun doesn't shine is not going to give us any capital longevity.

The other way of looking at it is that if more and more people shift to alternative sources of energy, the old energy companies may have to offer cheaper power in order to retain customers. Remembering most of the charges are actually levied at the transmission stage, not the production and the governments are the ones that decide how much to charge. If they got their nose out of the trough then we'd all be better off.

Going "green" is never my primary motive, the "bottom line" always takes precedence, if I can manage what goes out the back door (reduce consumption), then I am in a better position to absorb costs.

$2000 a quarter? holy crap maybe its time to review your usage/appliances/lighting that seems a lot.

 

[mmm....shiney!]

$2000 a quarter? holy crap maybe its time to review your usage/appliances/lighting that seems a lot.

Fridges, fridges, fridges, freezers, freezers, freezers etc etc. We've already cut it down from $3000/quarter.

 

[renovator]

$2000 a quarter? holy crap maybe its time to review your usage/appliances/lighting that seems a lot.

Fridges, fridges, fridges, freezers, freezers, freezers etc etc. We've already cut it down from $3000/quarter.

a lot of freezers eh ? hmmm im not coming to your joint i like fresh food . maybe you need a visit from gordon ramsay to show you how to cook & serve real food i rarely eat frozen food only the odd pizza or frozen meal that i keep on hand for when i cbf cooking or give the better half a break from the stove....is a trip to the butcher , fish& fruit/veg market once every couple of days too much effort ?lots of freezers are for ice cream or fish & chip shops not restaurant food . one of my mates is a chef as is my bro's missus they wouldnt be caught dead serving frozen food.. i was under the impression you had a restaurant not a fish & chip fast food shop serving frozen chips & spring rolls. once food has been frozen it tastes different . i know straight away if its been frozen . fresh is best by a country mile jmo

 

[mmm....shiney!]

$2000 a quarter? holy crap maybe its time to review your usage/appliances/lighting that seems a lot.

Fridges, fridges, fridges, freezers, freezers, freezers etc etc. We've already cut it down from $3000/quarter.

a lot of freezers eh ? hmmm im not coming to your joint i like fresh food . maybe you need a visit from gordon ramsay to show you how to cook & serve real food i rarely eat frozen food only the odd pizza or frozen meal that i keep on hand for when i cbf cooking or give the better half a break from the stove....is a trip to the butcher , fish& fruit/veg market once every couple of days too much effort ?lots of freezers are for ice cream or fish & chip shops not restaurant food . one of my mates is a chef as is my bro's missus they wouldnt be caught dead serving frozen food.. i was under the impression you had a restaurant not a fish & chip fast food shop serving frozen chips & spring rolls. once food has been frozen it tastes different . i know straight away if its been frozen . fresh is best by a country mile jmo

What a fkn crock of horse shit.

What do you think? The fisherman go out every day and catch fish and bring it back every day? The wind always 10 knots? There are no closed seasons? The prawns run all year?

Fuck you talk shit at times.

You wouldn't know the difference between frozen and fresh if it bit you on your dumb Harley riding arse.