New to the stacking game
- Thread starter Rhyseyson
- Start date
Here's my two cents worth...
It's really hard to make money off any type of collectable when you are new to it. Try purchasing a variety of different items to start with. Buy stuff that you like. After a few months you'll soon get a feel for where you want to go with it... whether you lean towards long term investing, short term flipping, whether you like stacking bars or collecting numismatics. Or, you might even find that you're bored with it all by then. If you don't spend too much at first you won't stand to lose a lot if you make a few mistakes or if it turns out silver stacking isn't for you. If you buy what you like at least you will have enjoyed the experience.
Good luck and have fun
It's really hard to make money off any type of collectable when you are new to it. Try purchasing a variety of different items to start with. Buy stuff that you like. After a few months you'll soon get a feel for where you want to go with it... whether you lean towards long term investing, short term flipping, whether you like stacking bars or collecting numismatics. Or, you might even find that you're bored with it all by then. If you don't spend too much at first you won't stand to lose a lot if you make a few mistakes or if it turns out silver stacking isn't for you. If you buy what you like at least you will have enjoyed the experience.
Good luck and have fun
Welcome, there is plenty of silver around so no need to rush into anything.
For making money you need to jump on the next big thing hype train (I think the Perth Mint Swans was the last one) then sell them immediately. You get really good returns on those. Anything limited edition usually does really well at release and after they are no longer available from the Mint. But if you hold on too long then the next big thing comes along and interest fades. A lot of people try for the first coin in a series, if the series is popular then people coming later down the line have to buy the out of stock coins in order to complete their set. You could end up with a lot of clown fish coins though.
If you are not actively buying and selling then there is no need to jump on the latest offerings and to be honest I haven't got the energy.
You can make money on non bullion items like buying rolls of coins from the Royal Australian Mint (RAM) I buy $1 coins at face value which work out to be around $1.50 after postage, these sell for $5 at the local market but unlikely to sell all of them, at least you can spend the ones which don't sell. I just sell them at face value to the members of the coin club but it covers the cost of postage for my own coins.
Bars will go up and down with the price of silver, so you could sit on them for 10 years and they might still be worth the same amount. Not only does the price have to go up but it also has to go up faster than inflation. All that time they are not giving you anything back. If the money was in the bank you would at least get interest so that it was keeping pace with inflation and you would be generating an income. With silver you are gambling on a big price spike, to happen at the exact time that you want to liquidate. If you want to sell during a drop you will end up losing money. If there is a spike and you sell you are now left with some money and will have to look at another investment to put it in.
I don't collect sets, I think they are a mug's game, they are fun to put together but they are an expensive way to buy silver and you limit the market you can sell them to.
I do have junk silver, many kilo's. They are the same as bars, you are gambling on the price of silver rising, otherwise you don't make any money. The bonus is... they are very cheap, probably the cheapest way to buy silver, I used to get the stuff for below spot, even now you can buy it for spot or just over (Mainly because spot is rising). There is a decent variety, not a lot of hope of getting a rare coin in a bulk lot (they have usually passed through the hands of several coin collectors before they end up in the junk bin) but it is fun to look. If you stick to local junk silver and the low silver content 50% rather than the 92.5% stuff you can usually buy it in bulk fairly cheaply. The downside is that although you are getting free copper, it takes up a lot of room, twice as much space as pure silver. It is usually easy to sell though, rarely fake, and you can always tell preppers that it will be useful for when SHTF.
In the UK I would avoid anything that had 20% VAT added. You can buy silver from places in Europe that do not have VAT and get them shipped to the UK but it sounds like a hassle. Proof coins I would imagine are subject to VAT as well. Is gold still VAT free? I know it was when I lived there. Although there is a higher entry point you are getting a 20% discount by not having to pay VAT so it is worth saving up and stacking gold, it fits in a much smaller place and is easier to store securely. I would go with bullion sovereigns, internationally recognised, low enough premiums and no VAT. Trouble is a lot of £££ doesn't look very impressive as a collection in gold coins.
I have a bit of everything, silver rises I can sell the bars, silver drops I can sell the collector coins. Silver is cheap at the moment so I would hold on to it and sell the gold, which is relatively expensive. End of the world as we know it I will barter with my junk silver.
For making money you need to jump on the next big thing hype train (I think the Perth Mint Swans was the last one) then sell them immediately. You get really good returns on those. Anything limited edition usually does really well at release and after they are no longer available from the Mint. But if you hold on too long then the next big thing comes along and interest fades. A lot of people try for the first coin in a series, if the series is popular then people coming later down the line have to buy the out of stock coins in order to complete their set. You could end up with a lot of clown fish coins though.
If you are not actively buying and selling then there is no need to jump on the latest offerings and to be honest I haven't got the energy.
You can make money on non bullion items like buying rolls of coins from the Royal Australian Mint (RAM) I buy $1 coins at face value which work out to be around $1.50 after postage, these sell for $5 at the local market but unlikely to sell all of them, at least you can spend the ones which don't sell. I just sell them at face value to the members of the coin club but it covers the cost of postage for my own coins.
Bars will go up and down with the price of silver, so you could sit on them for 10 years and they might still be worth the same amount. Not only does the price have to go up but it also has to go up faster than inflation. All that time they are not giving you anything back. If the money was in the bank you would at least get interest so that it was keeping pace with inflation and you would be generating an income. With silver you are gambling on a big price spike, to happen at the exact time that you want to liquidate. If you want to sell during a drop you will end up losing money. If there is a spike and you sell you are now left with some money and will have to look at another investment to put it in.
I don't collect sets, I think they are a mug's game, they are fun to put together but they are an expensive way to buy silver and you limit the market you can sell them to.
I do have junk silver, many kilo's. They are the same as bars, you are gambling on the price of silver rising, otherwise you don't make any money. The bonus is... they are very cheap, probably the cheapest way to buy silver, I used to get the stuff for below spot, even now you can buy it for spot or just over (Mainly because spot is rising). There is a decent variety, not a lot of hope of getting a rare coin in a bulk lot (they have usually passed through the hands of several coin collectors before they end up in the junk bin) but it is fun to look. If you stick to local junk silver and the low silver content 50% rather than the 92.5% stuff you can usually buy it in bulk fairly cheaply. The downside is that although you are getting free copper, it takes up a lot of room, twice as much space as pure silver. It is usually easy to sell though, rarely fake, and you can always tell preppers that it will be useful for when SHTF.
In the UK I would avoid anything that had 20% VAT added. You can buy silver from places in Europe that do not have VAT and get them shipped to the UK but it sounds like a hassle. Proof coins I would imagine are subject to VAT as well. Is gold still VAT free? I know it was when I lived there. Although there is a higher entry point you are getting a 20% discount by not having to pay VAT so it is worth saving up and stacking gold, it fits in a much smaller place and is easier to store securely. I would go with bullion sovereigns, internationally recognised, low enough premiums and no VAT. Trouble is a lot of £££ doesn't look very impressive as a collection in gold coins.
I have a bit of everything, silver rises I can sell the bars, silver drops I can sell the collector coins. Silver is cheap at the moment so I would hold on to it and sell the gold, which is relatively expensive. End of the world as we know it I will barter with my junk silver.
Fair enough. Thanks for the advise there appreciate it.
Where do you get junk silver from? Tried looking but in all honesty I have no idea what I'm looking for.
Ordered a few of the mint coins ie Eagle, maple, Britainia. Got myself a 2oz silver stacker from Scottsdale. Really want the Mexican liberata like the look of it but it's sold out everywhere which is not ideal
Where do you get junk silver from? Tried looking but in all honesty I have no idea what I'm looking for.
Ordered a few of the mint coins ie Eagle, maple, Britainia. Got myself a 2oz silver stacker from Scottsdale. Really want the Mexican liberata like the look of it but it's sold out everywhere which is not ideal
...there are a couple here: https://www.silverstackers.com/forums/index.php?threads/silver-frost-estate-sale-2.84620/
Cheers mate I'll have a little look.
Found an eBay seller from China. Selling huge collection of 5oz silver coins from 1980 to 1999 roughly. Selling for around £20. Hardly any confirm fine silver .999 like most modern coins. Does this seem to good to be true or is that genuinely what the old school coins were like. Most are the lunar series if that helps
Found an eBay seller from China. Selling huge collection of 5oz silver coins from 1980 to 1999 roughly. Selling for around £20. Hardly any confirm fine silver .999 like most modern coins. Does this seem to good to be true or is that genuinely what the old school coins were like. Most are the lunar series if that helps
If it's too good to be true then in all likeliness it is. Ebay is full of lots of good scams and you should steer clear in most cases unless you are experienced. No-one in their right mind undersells. STAY CLEAR OF DODGY EBAY SALES!!! - IF THERE IS ANY DOUBT- STAY AWAY!!!
Quite a bit of it I have bought from other stackers on this site. Even bought some UK pre decimal from a UK stacker on this site.
Used to get a fair bit on eBay back in the day, buying in bulk drops the postage rather than buying it in small amounts.
Coin shops used to have the junk but there are not many of them left and they prefer selling the high end stuff if they can, not much profit selling junk silver for spot.
When the Aussie dollar was doing well I bought a fair bit from USA eBay.
When silver spot rises it usually brings a bit of predecimal onto the market as people sell it or offload it for more than they paid for it.
Bootfairs would often have individual coins now and then but they are pretty low yield.
Got most of mine (23kg) from a member of a coin club after I put it out that I was after junk coins.
I used to have a spreadsheet which worked out the values off coins in eBay listings. I would then place snipes for spot value on all the bulk lots. Lost 100s of auctions but any I won were for spot or below. Particularly on uncommon coins, many people not interested in working out the melt value for world coins.
I have found that I pay less for Australian coins in Australia but the equivalent coins from other countries cost more. I guess you pay a premium for exotic junk coins. It does make the stack look a bit bland but I only look at them while I am cleaning them.
For UK you are mostly looking for coins from 1920 to 1946, they are 50% silver. If you get them 1919 or before then they are 92.5% and you might pay a bit extra premiums because they are more desirable. Larger coins like crowns and half crowns have a bit of a novelty factor so you might pay extra for them but the shillings and two shillings are pretty much common coins and don't have much of a premium.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/in...&c=&co=y&cno=y&cc=y&cn=y&cj=y&ce=y&cu=y&cat=y
Numista https://en.numista.com/ is a good site to recognise and get info on junk coins.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/in...&c=&co=y&cno=y&cc=y&cn=y&cj=y&ce=y&cu=y&cat=y
Numista https://en.numista.com/ is a good site to recognise and get info on junk coins.
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In my mind, and my family, "stacking" is for providing a special type of long term financial security, not for "making money".
If all goes well, we will probably never sell any of it and it will all go to our daughter, who will hopefully understand what it is for.
If we do sell some, it would only be after a major reset of its value compared to other durable assets, land in particular.
If your intent is trading, then I suggest that you trade paper derivatives, not physical.
That is what they are made for.
They have very low round-trip costs, can be done from anywhere on a smart-phone or laptop, and do not involve walking around with bags of PM or money which has some risk, as does mailing stuff.
In Thailand, round-trip on physical gold bullion is only about $7 an ounce at any local gold shop, but less than $1.50 an ounce on the Thai Futures Exchange.
As my wife is Thai, there is no tax on profits, unlike some other places.
Finally, unless you have a huge amount of money to start with, or are on the right side of a huge price reset, any profits will be very limited unless the trading involves leverage.
Gold futures on the Thai exchange have 24 to 1 leverage, so a 4% movement in the gold rice either doubles or wipes-out the margin gambled.
If you want to make smaller, safer bets when you expect a significant price movement is imminent, options or puts would be a better way to do it. They are not available here in Thailand, but are on larger exchanges.
BEFORE doing any of this, however, you should study enough that you firmly believe you understand what is going on.
Futures, for example, is a zero-sum game, and I would guess that 90% or more of people who play lose money, same as FX.
Given the leverage involved, volatility analysis and risk management are very important.
If all goes well, we will probably never sell any of it and it will all go to our daughter, who will hopefully understand what it is for.
If we do sell some, it would only be after a major reset of its value compared to other durable assets, land in particular.
If your intent is trading, then I suggest that you trade paper derivatives, not physical.
That is what they are made for.
They have very low round-trip costs, can be done from anywhere on a smart-phone or laptop, and do not involve walking around with bags of PM or money which has some risk, as does mailing stuff.
In Thailand, round-trip on physical gold bullion is only about $7 an ounce at any local gold shop, but less than $1.50 an ounce on the Thai Futures Exchange.
As my wife is Thai, there is no tax on profits, unlike some other places.
Finally, unless you have a huge amount of money to start with, or are on the right side of a huge price reset, any profits will be very limited unless the trading involves leverage.
Gold futures on the Thai exchange have 24 to 1 leverage, so a 4% movement in the gold rice either doubles or wipes-out the margin gambled.
If you want to make smaller, safer bets when you expect a significant price movement is imminent, options or puts would be a better way to do it. They are not available here in Thailand, but are on larger exchanges.
BEFORE doing any of this, however, you should study enough that you firmly believe you understand what is going on.
Futures, for example, is a zero-sum game, and I would guess that 90% or more of people who play lose money, same as FX.
Given the leverage involved, volatility analysis and risk management are very important.
nutshell
Active Member
When I started out I purchased things that two years down the track I probably would not buy. Once I joined up here and started paying attention to what other people were buying, selling and not able to sell I started to get a better idea of what I want to hold. I'm interested in having something for a rainy day that isn't in a bank, not short term gain. Yeah I could put money in a shoe box and do the same thing but it is a bit of a diversion to track the spot against my spreadsheet. Go slow to start with, watch, listen, have fun and don't make it an obsession.
Welcome and cheers!
Welcome and cheers!
matevis
New Member
Hi Jislizard - can I just check what you mean by this. Do people buy individual $1 coins for $5 at the local market? Or are you saying something different? Trying to work out what's going on here! Thanks.