New to Silver. How to test for silver with 100% confidence?

S

sinistersix

New Member
I am new to silver investing, and have recently acquired some bars and coins. I have read about the ping test, magnet test, and all those, but they all seem somewhat unscientific or not conclusive to me.

Short of getting some acid, is there a machine or kit or tester I can buy to be 100% certain that my coins are real? I dont want to damage them with acid.

How do pawn shops and coin dealers test for 100% certainty???
 
Most places use XRF or more recently, ultrasonic testing (less common).

XRF gives a chemical composition from the surface, but this will show if the bar is silver or gold plated.

Ultrasonic testing gives a measurement of the thickness of a bar, based on the speed it should travel through the metal. So if you have a 10oz PM bar it should show about 10mm thick (not 15 or 20mm). As such it may be less reliable on coins and rounds, as they are generally much thinner.

Some pawnshops still use density test to check composition of bar.
 
Is there anything that I can buy or do at home without buying something expensive?

As far as weight...I recently bought the pegasus round and it weights 1 1/8 oz. I have read that fake coins often dont weigh 1oz, but this seems a bit odd to me as it seems that anyone faking a coin would make it still weigh 1 oz. Wouldnt counterfeiters just make the coin the size it needs to be to weigh 1 oz?
 
I am not familiar with that round, but being overweight by that much is unusual.

Thats not to say it isnt genuine, but i would take it to your local dealer to check it (just so u know one way or the other and can stop worrying)
 
Search on the internet for a silver acid test solution. You basically put a drop of the stuff on the coin, and if it turns a certain colour it is silver (or at least silver plated).

As for knowing absolutely for sure that there isn't a second type of metal within the bar? Pack a portable drill.
 
It sounds strange that your round weights that much. If it's Mike Maloney's new round that he has just released out I doubt it is fake and more likely that your scales are set to Avoirdupois ounces and not Troy ounces. Set your scales to weigh grams then check your round, it should be 31.1 grams.

Oh and welcome to the forum :)
 
sinistersix said:
I recently bought the pegasus round and it weights 1 1/8 oz.
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did you use "oz" on your pocket scale or use "gram"

well if you use "oz" then everything make sense, cuz one "oz" equal 28 grams, plus 1/8 so roughly 31.5 grams, which sounds correct.
 
unless you scratch and acid test, or drill and acid test you will probably not be able to be 100% certain your bar is real (unless you buy direct from the mints). According to what Ive read, weight seems to be the easiest way to tell a fake. Fakes are often two to three grams out. I bought a cheap digital scale and got the following results: my two "1000 gn" bars weigh 1009.9 and 1011.5gn respectively. My JM bar weighs 31.3 g/1.104 Av oz. One of my Maple leaves weighs 31.42gr/1.108 Av oz. Now either my scale overweighs slightly, or the mints "overpour" by a couple hundredths of an ounce in order to guarantee they are not "shorting" their customers. You will have to decide what your out of tolerance limit is. I am comfortable with a couple tenths of a gram. The flip side is, whoever I ultimately sell my stack to will also be hard pressed to call anything I currently own a fake. I was surprised at the look on my dealer's face when I brought in my scale the last time I purchased some maple leaves. He actually asked me how many grams they were supposed to weigh lol! I weigh EVERYTHING I buy.
 
sinistersix said:
Is there anything that I can buy or do at home without buying something expensive?

As far as weight...I recently bought the pegasus round and it weights 1 1/8 oz. I have read that fake coins often dont weigh 1oz, but this seems a bit odd to me as it seems that anyone faking a coin would make it still weigh 1 oz. Wouldnt counterfeiters just make the coin the size it needs to be to weigh 1 oz?
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No.

Only buy stuff from reputable dealers that have xrf machines.
 
You could google how to do a specific gravity test. I have never done it myself I am happy by weighing and ringing anything I buy. That should put your mind at ease.
 
Welcome to the forum.

I have never tested any of my silver in the past 10 years. Apparently fakes are getting more frequent but...

I buy junk silver from eBay in bulk, worst thing you are likely to get is a UK or NZ coin which has no silver in it.

I buy direct from the Perth Mint and from some of the dealers here, all with solid reputations.

I purchase unallocated through one of the dealers here with a solid reputation. I can sell back to them at any time for spot without every having held the stuff let alone tested it.

I can sometimes buy cheaper through a private sale but often it is not worth the risk just to save a few dollars.
 
Read this topic, covers this subject pretty well

http://forums.silverstackers.com/to...coins-with-an-ultrasonic-thickness-gauge.html

What it boils down to is: Buy poured bars probably bigger than 5 ounce and the $13 scales off ebay plus the $150 ultrasonic thickness gauge from ebay and that will have you covered.

If you want the story on how to use the thickness gauge, go here http://about.ag/UltrasonicThicknessGauge.htm

If you buy tiny poured bars that are all stamp and no bar, minted bars without a flat surface or coins then you will need a $20,000 XRF machine which still won't tell you what is in the middle of the metal in question.

I've read some really sh*t pages on testing specific gravity that are just plain wrong or overly convoluted.
This is the "right" way to do and think about it.

1) weigh your metal dry (you do have your quality $13 set of scales don't you?).

2) put a small plastic container of water on your scales (careful not to overload it) Tare it so it reads zero.

3) hang the metal in the water, not touching the sides or the bottom. Do this using 0.1mm nylon monofilament available from a sewing shop. (tip: support the weight over some fixed object, so the reading on the scales stops jumping all over the place) You are measuring the mass of displaced water here.

4) Take the number you got in step 1 and divide it by the number you get in step 3. You should get something pretty close to 10.49 depending on how thick your monofilament is and how accurate your scales are.

This result can be faked by silver plating the right lead alloy, but then the Ultrasound test will pick up on that act of deceit :-)
 
In addition to weighing each coin, it is necessary to also measure the thickness. Fakes can be made of cheaper and less dense metals, with the correct weight and diameter, by simply increasing the thickness a little. Any coin that is a little too thick should be treated with suspicion. The same can be done with bars if you know the correct dimensions. If not, then a density test would be a good idea.
 
Hey buddy. I made the same mistake when I started, silver, gold etc are weighed in troy ounces, which is 31.1 grams as opposed to normal ounces which are 28 grams. That would account for the extra 1/8th of an ounce you weighed.
 
Very cool, thanks for the responses and yes most of you are right in that i put my scale to OZ (since it doesnt have a Troy OZ) button. It does weigh 31 grams so its exactly a troy oz. I also have a 100 oz RCM bar that weighed in at 109 oz...and at first I was worried, then remembered to weigh it in grams and it weighed exactly at 3.111 kilograms. My scale only does KG, not grams...what is the cheap scale of choice for metals investors today?

Am I to assume that every site that advertises a metal as xxx oz, it is really in Troy oz, just abbreviated? Or are there ever metals that are measured in regular oz? It seems most places just say xxx oz, but if the 100% standard is always in Troy oz, I can see why they often leave 'troy' out.
 
sinistersix said:
Am I to assume that every site that advertises a metal as xxx oz, it is really in Troy oz, just abbreviated? Or are there ever metals that are measured in regular oz? It seems most places just say xxx oz, but if the 100% standard is always in Troy oz, I can see why they often leave 'troy' out.
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I have yet to come across a precious metal (Gold, Silver, Rhodium, Platinum etc) measured in anything other than Troy ounce, or Gram/Kilogram, so, yes, precious metals are dealt with and sold by Troy ounce - whilst the abbreviation is usually "oz", you can take it as laziness by not writing "Toz". And for obvious reasons, most other non-precious metals would usually be sold by the tonne, perhaps by kilogram (they're non precious, and usual pricing and consumption patterns dictate bulk supply).
 
Goldhamster said:
... I thought they were smart and neat.
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It seems that 2013 UK Sovereigns will fail The Fisch test... So smart and neat is one thing, being a fool proof test is another! (An updated Fisch gauge is needed for the 2013 Gold Britannia as well.)
 
Goldhamster said:
When I bought my first Gold and Silver ( on the Gold Coast ) the dealer used one of these http://www.thefisch.com/
I thought they were smart and neat.
I was told there is two manufacturers/sellers but you would have to check that yourself.
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This is interesting. I have a couple random neumesmatic coins, but the bulk of my investing is in gold and silver Leafs and Eagles. If I only want it to test those coin types, would this be 'fool proof'?
 
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