New to PM's: A few simple Q's

X

xboxboy

Member
Hi all. A bit of back ground should help I guess:

Good history of stock market investing (fundamental not speculative/trading). Wish to begin transfer from cash reserves into PM's (particularly gold, but open to advice) for various reasons: No, I don't believe the sky will fall in the immediate future. I have the luxury of considering PM's and wish to join the 'secret society'.

None of my mates are involved in PM's. Several trade paper metal's, but that's not my objective in this case. Not interested (at this stage) in rare or collectable coins etc. purely after wealth protection/store of value.

Located in Adelaide South Australia.

So my main questions are (I reserve the right to add more as I learn :D)

A: Any recommend suppliers/dealers locally? Or interstate? Or Internationally*? (Only briefly read about GST on imported gold:-must learn more)

B: How are we all storing PM's? I've chosen to rent so bolting or sinking a safe into current residence isn't practical.

C: Insurance? Who? How? Is it even possible?

D: IIRC purchases above $5k are declared to the government? Is this correct? I'm lead to believe Perth Mint provides purchase details to government?

E: Are there any cultural theories / practical laws regarding PM's ie. Below $x stick with Xgm coins, above $x stick with bullion.

As far as I'm concerned the best way to sum up my approach is:
FIAT currencies are like the Titanic: Failure is in it's fete:
Therefore I want to reserve a seat in a life boat (As opposed to being seated in the life boat the entire trip).

If there are any stackers in Adelaide PM if your interested in meeting at some stage. My family held gold in the 80's, but current experience is non-existent.
 
think theres a stackers meet coming up in Adelaide at the end of the month, pm 'argento' for details.

B: storing pm in a safe without bolting is alright, just make sure u buy a good, thick and heavy one. <<-- though I am sure many stackers may disagree and prefer safe deposit boxes
since ure renting it may cost abit to shift ur safe when ur lease is up

D: yes and no, the requirement differs from dealer to dealer, perth mint requires ID checks to be done at auspost even before u can buy your first piece of metal
 
I would suggest you also consider gold stocks to compliment your investment. If you believe that gold will hold its value etc then it stands to reason that gold stocks will share the the ride ...and they have a better multiplier on the rise....bummer on the downside though.
If you are going in big time then consider unallocated as it does not incur fees...stick with big dealers, Perth mint etc....don't get too wrapped up in the unallocated is to be avoided argument. This will mean that you can offload at anytime without the security risk. If gold does rise to the levels we think it might then crims will use ebay to fish for potential targets. Either that or have access to a dealer you can trust that will pay a decent amount for your stash.
 
Thanks tristanho.

I do have the use of a safe from early 1800's. It is heavy for it's size. I guess internally it's like 40 litres. I doubt it would be easy to get into, but two men would be able to move it with difficulty. I might run it past my insurance company see what their thoughts are. I don't think they would like it, given I'm not keen on storing items of real value in it. ie. passports etc are all in paid for secure storage (thanks Dad!).

I didn't mention in opening post, but I can be a little paranoid about things at times. Don't ask how many backups I have of my important files!

Did not know about a stackers meet in Adelaide. Will look into it.
 
On the topic of safes, they are not as secure as you would think. See this story of a stacker who lost everything to thieves. There a pics of the remains of his safe.

You could buy unallocated silver so there is no risk of theft and no home storage requirements, but some people here recommend against that in case the bullion dealer has financial issues.

The best solution is to pay for a box in a secure storage vault. It is expensive though if you have allot of physical silver o store.
 
Hi Xboxboy, welcome to the forum. I'll try to answer a few of your questions as I'm sure a few other will also chime in. I'm in PMs for similar reasons to yourself. I'm also a stock market trader and use some of my profits to buy physical metals as an insurance policy. Anywho

A: Any of the forum sponsors are reputable dealers. I'm partial to Perth Bullion/Bullion Bourse, Goldstackers and Bullion List. In Adelaide you have City Gold Bullion on King William Street. I've bought a few times from them and have no complaints.

B: City Gold Bullion does offer storage for PMs but their prices aren't as competitive as a few other options. I've chosen to open a Safe Deposit Box as a bank which costs me $130 pa but I also have storage at Guardian Vaults in Melbourne. This is because I live in a remote area. I generally hold my PMs in the bank SDB and transfer them to Melbourne on my occasional trips there.

C: I don't many insurance companies that offer insurance on PMs, particularly standard bullion, but a few others may know a few

D: I believe and I stand to be corrected, any cash purchases of $5k are reported to AUSTRAC. When I say cash purchases I mean physical cash. Bank transfer do not count or so I believe.

E: Some people go with simple bullion (such as myself) and other prefer numis as they tend to hold their premiums in a bear market like we've seen over the last few years. I tend to stick with simple bullion for storage/liquidity purposes. My metals of choice tend to be Perth Mint 1oz gold certicards and gold lunars. For silver I go with lunars, kookaburras, Perth Mint 10oz bars and 1966 50cent rounds.
 
A: Any recommend suppliers/dealers locally? Or interstate? Or Internationally*? (Only briefly read about GST on imported gold:-must learn more) Interstate I recommend Goldstackers.com.au and Perthbullion.com.au and locally Danman49 when he's selling. International don't think it's really worth it unless it's at a very good price, postage usually kills a good deal

B: How are we all storing PM's? I've chosen to rent so bolting or sinking a safe into current residence isn't practical. SDB in a bank or a vault. Too risky keeping most of your stash at home.

C: Insurance? Who? How? Is it even possible? in general I don't think so but again, don't keep it at home!

D: IIRC purchases above $5k are declared to the government? Is this correct? I'm lead to believe Perth Mint provides purchase details to government?yes, it is a legal requirement for the dealer to keep a record of the transaction for AUSTRAC.

E: Are there any cultural theories / practical laws regarding PM's ie. Below $x stick with Xgm coins, above $x stick with bullion.More opinion than cultural theory or law. Generally I try to keep the premium low and buy what I know will be able to easily offload

Next Adelaide meeting is on the 27th http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-52026-adelaide-meet-sunday-27th-april.html
 
SilverPete said:
On the topic of safes, they are not as secure as you would think. See this story of a stacker who lost everything to thieves. There a pics of the remains of his safe.
Click to expand...

No offense intended to lunty or anyone here, but im just sharing my experience with safes.
my family runs a safe business in singapore and a fellow stacker/customer asked me if safes are secured in light of lunty's case. Check the link out.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/109237749@N03/11747343445/in/photostream/
Home safes may not be as secured as a SDB(without the guards patrolling and alarm systems in place) but there are stackers who prefer to keep stuff close to themselves.
 
tristanho said:
SilverPete said:
On the topic of safes, they are not as secure as you would think. See this story of a stacker who lost everything to thieves. There a pics of the remains of his safe.
Click to expand...

No offense intended to lunty or anyone here, but im just sharing my experience with safes.
my family runs a safe business in singapore and a fellow stacker/customer asked me if safes are secured in light of lunty's case. Check the link out.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/109237749@N03/11747343445/in/photostream/
Home safes may not be as secured as a SDB(without the guards patrolling and alarm systems in place) but there are stackers who prefer to keep stuff close to themselves.
Click to expand...

Any security system can be breached with enough time, effort, tools and/or knowledge. I think the better thing to do is layer your security. Just a safe alone might do it for a junkie breaking and entering looking for a quick buck but a more skilled burglar might be able to break in. I think if you are holding a large amount of PM or other high end valuables (antiques, art, electronics etc.) you should have a few layers of security. For me this would at least include good relationships with neighbors, trimming bushes and trees, keeping a clean and clear yard, good outdoor lighting at night, a home security system (with well posted signs around the house and yard advertising said system), a dog and a safe. Other things like CCTV hidden from plain view would be good to help the cops ID someone if they did manage to get into your safe after everything else (as a LEO I use CCTV all the time to help me with investigations). With enough time any safe can be cracked by someone with some skill but add some other elements to it and the safe becomes too much effort and the burglar will just go to the next house. I have two dogs: a pekingese;pretty worthless for attacking but really good at barking when someone shows up and an American Pit Bull/Lab mix; very good at barking and biting if provoked. When sales people show up at my door and try to hard sell me I just tell them I can't hold the dog back any more and they need to get off my property. They get the hint ;)
 
Thanks all. Several great points:

RE: Hole in the ground and tight lips; Works supurbly, until a sudden death. I've heard a couple of family horror stories (mostly farmers) where the buried goods are never recovered!

Gonna do my best to get to the Adelaide meet. Please be gentle on me :) I'll try to not annoy everyone.

I'm glad it seems there are a couple of local dealers for me: Mustn't become slack and post pone any purchases.

In a nuclear situation (IE. total Australian Economic collapse) and bank failure, are the contents of SDB the rightful goods of it's owners or do the banks 'maintain' possession? May sound silly, but if you have a deposit with a company and it gets liquidated, your deposit is lost. Are the banks SDB operating on the same principal?

Thank you all
 
xboxboy said:
Thanks tristanho.

I do have the use of a safe from early 1800's. It is heavy for it's size. I guess internally it's like 40 litres. I doubt it would be easy to get into, but two men would be able to move it with difficulty
Click to expand...

.....give me an hour, i feel i could open that
 
In a nuclear situation you will probably find banks either unstaffed/closed, no power, no accessible record of your box to you, vault unable to be opened... or all of the above.

I personally will not pay for counter party risk, but I am in a position to. If you rent in the burbs I would definitely recommend SDB.

For those keeping their stack at home, consider protection from fire too.
 
SilverKendo said:
tristanho said:
SilverPete said:
On the topic of safes, they are not as secure as you would think. See this story of a stacker who lost everything to thieves. There a pics of the remains of his safe.
Click to expand...

No offense intended to lunty or anyone here, but im just sharing my experience with safes.
my family runs a safe business in singapore and a fellow stacker/customer asked me if safes are secured in light of lunty's case. Check the link out.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/109237749@N03/11747343445/in/photostream/
Home safes may not be as secured as a SDB(without the guards patrolling and alarm systems in place) but there are stackers who prefer to keep stuff close to themselves.
Click to expand...

Any security system can be breached with enough time, effort, tools and/or knowledge. I think the better thing to do is layer your security. Just a safe alone might do it for a junkie breaking and entering looking for a quick buck but a more skilled burglar might be able to break in. I think if you are holding a large amount of PM or other high end valuables (antiques, art, electronics etc.) you should have a few layers of security. For me this would at least include good relationships with neighbors, trimming bushes and trees, keeping a clean and clear yard, good outdoor lighting at night, a home security system (with well posted signs around the house and yard advertising said system), a dog and a safe. Other things like CCTV hidden from plain view would be good to help the cops ID someone if they did manage to get into your safe after everything else (as a LEO I use CCTV all the time to help me with investigations). With enough time any safe can be cracked by someone with some skill but add some other elements to it and the safe becomes too much effort and the burglar will just go to the next house. I have two dogs: a pekingese;pretty worthless for attacking but really good at barking when someone shows up and an American Pit Bull/Lab mix; very good at barking and biting if provoked. When sales people show up at my door and try to hard sell me I just tell them I can't hold the dog back any more and they need to get off my property. They get the hint ;)
Click to expand...

Layers is right. The first being don't tell anyone about the layers xD.

edit: Went into minor details on my security layers. But have decided to delete. PM me if you want some home security ideas.
 
My layers are barbwire, poison gas, daisycutters, shrapnel mines, flamethrowers, 100 tonnes rocks, steel windows, ice blocks, a howitzer behind the only door, and my dog Fluffy.
 
Pirocco said:
My layers are barbwire, poison gas, daisycutters, shrapnel mines, flamethrowers, 100 tonnes rocks, steel windows, ice blocks, a howitzer behind the only door, and my dog Fluffy.
Click to expand...

crap, well u got me there. im allergic to dogs. if he wasnt there, game on!
 
That is true loose lips sink ships. However, those layers I meantion should really be standard for any level of home no matter where you live if you stack or not. People need to learn to take responsibility for thier own safety and security. Really it is no different than stacking when you think about it: taking back some control of your life from forces that mean to take it from you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top