New stacker question

M

Momedic

New Member
I'm totally new to stacking and had a question... Am I better off starting off with some ASEs or just some generic silver rounds? I've done some reading and have found conflicting information on this subject. I found some ASEs today for $178/10 and almost pulled the trigger but I wanted to make sure that would be the best option before I go for it.

Thanks in advance!
 
It depends on the reason why you're stacking and what you're trying to achieve. There are plenty of places you could start.

But, I do think ASEs are a pretty good option considering you're based in the US. If you can get a good price on them then go for it. If you wanted to buy rounds I'd suggest Buffalos.
 
Buy what you like at a price you are happy with (IE - no buyers remorse)
What you like may change overtime.
Hard to define a best option as you haven't advised what your expected outcome is.
 
My motive for stacking is for long term investment, potentionally an early retirement(I'm 30). Would you consider the above mentioned price to be good? It's the cheapest I could find.
 
If those ASE's are in good shape that is a great price at the retail level. $2.50 or so over spot for BU ASE's is worth buying for a long term hold in my opinion.

If they are imperfect for some reason: milk spots, evidence of polishing/improper cleaning, scratched, painted, etc, then I would not get them.


Jim
 
I'd say if you're aiming for the early retirement option then you're looking for silver to climb significantly in value in the near future? If you're chasing that eventuality then just go with rounds, as many as you can lay your hands on for as cheap as possible. Once the market takes off in a big way then numismatics would be harder to sell with the large premiums still intact, and chances are that people will take whatever they can get to have their foot in the market when you're selling. ASE's are a great way to assure desirability in regular market fluctuations and there's still money to be made. At that low premium it sounds like a good buy, but be careful of eBay and too good to be true offers.
 
Momedic said:
My motive for stacking is for long term investment, potentionally an early retirement(I'm 30). Would you consider the above mentioned price to be good? It's the cheapest I could find.
Click to expand...

Be aware that metals are most certainly not a good long term investment. They produce no compounding income return unlike shares and realestate.
You could get lucky of course and they could go up in value over time and when you decide to sell. But they might not.
Think of metals as cash who's value simply fluctuates.
 
I'm totally new, too. A couple months ago, I bought my first couple rolls of eagles at a coin shop. Last week I bought a variety of rounds and coins from Provident Metals. I don't think the coin shop overcharged me --much. But they sold me 2013 eagles. And when I compare prices on Providentmetals, I see the purchase and buy back spread on the 2013 is pretty high. For instance you can buy the 2013s for $21.05, but Provident metals will buy it back for only $16.50. An immediate loss of $4.55. Last week I bought some Provident Prospector rounds. Currently, you can currently buy the Prospector for $15.89. And the buy back price is $15.20 -so if I HAD to sell back my silver right away, there would only be a loss of .69 cents, compared to the $4.55 on the 2013.

I'm watching the price and will buy more if it goes down on a dip. But at this point, I'm not sure what the benefit is of buying a coin that it only 3 years older over buying a cheaper round.

I asked about this on the coin thread --if anyone knows what the long term benefit is of paying the higher premium on a coin that is only 3 years old? But didn't get any good answers. I will probably buy some coins just for the variety, but at this point rounds look better to me.
 
There is no reason for a 2013 ASE to have any premium over a 2016. Dealers just want to make a few extra dollars so they will try to charge more for older coins if they can get away with it.
 
SilverDJ said:
Momedic said:
My motive for stacking is for long term investment, potentionally an early retirement(I'm 30). Would you consider the above mentioned price to be good? It's the cheapest I could find.
Click to expand...

Be aware that metals are most certainly not a good long term investment. They produce no compounding income return unlike shares and realestate.
You could get lucky of course and they could go up in value over time and when you decide to sell. But they might not.
Think of metals as cash who's value simply fluctuates.
Click to expand...

Yes real estate is great falling at $2000 a week on average in Perth. If you go the mining towns in QLD it's about that per second. If you think for one minute that the slump is limited to Perth and Qld think again it will spread like a malignant tumour. Shares this year in the ASX great, fantastic down 12% from the highs. Now bank deposits (that is not cash) in most of Europe earns you a negative - ie a loss. Here in Oz 2% if you are lucky and before tax. Metals are a great long term investment. Gold I bought 15,10 and 8 years ago has done fantastically. What are you smoking ? Short term there is volatility longer term - no issue at all.
 
2dollarbill said:
I'm totally new, too. A couple months ago, I bought my first couple rolls of eagles at a coin shop. Last week I bought a variety of rounds and coins from Provident Metals. I don't think the coin shop overcharged me --much. But they sold me 2013 eagles. And when I compare prices on Providentmetals, I see the purchase and buy back spread on the 2013 is pretty high. For instance you can buy the 2013s for $21.05, but Provident metals will buy it back for only $16.50. An immediate loss of $4.55. Last week I bought some Provident Prospector rounds. Currently, you can currently buy the Prospector for $15.89. And the buy back price is $15.20 -so if I HAD to sell back my silver right away, there would only be a loss of .69 cents, compared to the $4.55 on the 2013.

I'm watching the price and will buy more if it goes down on a dip. But at this point, I'm not sure what the benefit is of buying a coin that it only 3 years older over buying a cheaper round.

I asked about this on the coin thread --if anyone knows what the long term benefit is of paying the higher premium on a coin that is only 3 years old? But didn't get any good answers. I will probably buy some coins just for the variety, but at this point rounds look better to me.
Click to expand...


If you look at mintage numbers for recent year bullion ASEs, you will notice that tens of millions were sold each year ergo there is no shortage of these coins. There should be virtually no little premium increase in 2016 for 2013 ASEs.

If you are looking to only maximize ounces of silver, there are better ways than buying ASEs. That's not to say there aren't good arguments for buying ASE's instead of blobs (common, generic, non-denom bars and rounds) even if one must pay a higher premium. It all depends on a number of different factors. Also, keep in mind that premiums usually drop as you buy larger volume/quantity of a product.

Therefore one strategy might be to hold off on buying silver for a period of time and save, save, save that fiat cash so that you can make a larger purchase later. Less frequency of purchasing but larger volume per purchase could be a worthwhile strategy for some. I don't do it that way at this time....but everyone is different.



On a side note, my new favorite silver bullion coin is the 2016 Cougar .9999 pure one: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wk_tZkLekk[/youtube]



.
 
Think of silver, gold or any metals like foreign currency. It goes up and down but it cost you money to have.

If you are thinking a 1 ounce silver coins to accumulate $1,000 or $1,000,000 premium it is unlikely to occur (note I did say premium not what silver is worth)

premiums on new modern uncirculated coin is not going to get the levels of early circulated coins that goes for millions because it's unlikely to be that hard to find a good example of mint coins
 
Hey Momedic and the SS Community!

Been lurking here for a while, finally decided to sign up. I am active on the Kitco forums but this one seems better to me... I am also in my 30s so it is nice to see other stackers in my age range. I have only been stacking since last June, so am no expert by any means, but my advice is:

1) Think of metals as Insurance, something you should have but hope to never use. I temper my expectations from the "To Da Moon" posters and just hope at the very least my stack keeps up with inflation. Make sure not to neglect your 401k and my main goal is to have PMs be about 10% of my portfolio.

2) Many of the big name sites have "Any Qty" deals where you can buy coins at the whole sale amount, as I don't buy thousands of dollars at a time this helps maximize your money. A good site is comparesilverprices which shows you the lowest cost for the staple items at the various online resellers. I have gotten ASEs, Maples, Libs, Bars, all with the whole sell price.

3) I stated with 10oz bars, and today that still makes up a majority of my weight, but also like collecting some of the finer items (Pert, special rounds, ect). Bars will always by near spot, but collection coins will appreciate. Like said above ASE's are not really collection coins as the mintage is so high, but I have a few rolls none the less. Basically your taste will change several times, mine have already in the last 6 months.

4) Find a local coin store that you like, this is important to me. Make a few buys, make sure to know the on-line prices and bring them up if they are over. My LCS will match the price most of the time and sometimes give me special deals too.

Happy stacking!
 
Silver Lion said:
Hey Momedic and the SS Community!

Been lurking here for a while, finally decided to sign up. I am active on the Kitco forums but this one seems better to me... I am also in my 30s so it is nice to see other stackers in my age range. I have only been stacking since last June, so am no expert by any means, but my advice is:

1) Think of metals as Insurance, something you should have but hope to never use. I temper my expectations from the "To Da Moon" posters and just hope at the very least my stack keeps up with inflation. Make sure not to neglect your 401k and my main goal is to have PMs be about 10% of my portfolio.

2) Many of the big name sites have "Any Qty" deals where you can buy coins at the whole sale amount, as I don't buy thousands of dollars at a time this helps maximize your money. A good site is comparesilverprices which shows you the lowest cost for the staple items at the various online resellers. I have gotten ASEs, Maples, Libs, Bars, all with the whole sell price.

3) I stated with 10oz bars, and today that still makes up a majority of my weight, but also like collecting some of the finer items (Pert, special rounds, ect). Bars will always by near spot, but collection coins will appreciate. Like said above ASE's are not really collection coins as the mintage is so high, but I have a few rolls none the less. Basically your taste will change several times, mine have already in the last 6 months.

4) Find a local coin store that you like, this is important to me. Make a few buys, make sure to know the on-line prices and bring them up if they are over. My LCS will match the price most of the time and sometimes give me special deals too.

Happy stacking!
Click to expand...



Welcome to the forum!


I agree with most of your comments except one which is glaringly wrong in my view; metal is not insurance. This is not meant to be a personal attack on you so I hope you don't take it that way.

In simple terms, insurance is basically a guarantee against loss. Metals can never do this as they are commodities that are subject to (often volatile) short and very long term market fluctuations. Metals have no intrinsic value even though they have intrinsic characteristics or properties. Whatever value they have, is always the value that we attach to them subjectively (and often collectively).

The claim that metal is (or is like) insurance is a misleading myth perpetrated within the metal/stacker community sometimes by people who don't know better (those who do not understand precious metals) and sometimes by people who do know better but who just don't care what sorts of disinformation they put forth. Many people over the decades have learned the hard way that metals is not insurance.

It's really that simple.


I like polished silver, it's shiny.



.
 
Thanks Missing link!

I see your points, being realitivly new to stacking I guess it just easy for me to see it that way. So like most insurances they are either geared towards, home, life, car, ect and I see it's as insurance towards a currency crisis. So maybe it all depends on why you stack? As long as you don't see it as a get rich quick scheme that a lot of the pumpers peddle.

Cheers!
 
Silver Lion said:
Thanks Missing link!

I see your points, being realitivly new to stacking I guess it just easy for me to see it that way. So like most insurances they are either geared towards, home, life, car, ect and I see it's as insurance towards a currency crisis. So maybe it all depends on why you stack? As long as you don't see it as a get rich quick scheme that a lot of the pumpers peddle.

Cheers!
Click to expand...



I think you missed my point but maybe it';ss my fault as maybe I wasn't as clear as I thought I was.

A commodity (silver or gold) that is tied to market fluctuations can not function like insurance....currency crisis or not. That should be self-evident if you understand what insurance actually is. Something can not function like insurance when it's value is derived by ever changing market sentiment as happens with metals all the time. Something can not function like insurance when its value wildly fluctuates as does metals. Supply in surplus - prices likely go down at some point soon. Demand outweighing supply - prices likely go up at some point soon. How can silver or gold function like insurance when it's value has decreased (or has not increased at the rate the currency it's priced in increases)?

In a SHTF scenario (which may be a result of the hypothetical global currency crisis many stackers seem to fear) what is alleged to ensue is wide spread panic, riots, massive numbers of businesses closing, trading markets closing down or running on a very limited basis, utilities possibly shutting down sectors of municipalities / cities, loss of liberties, an instituting of a police state, and all the other alleged horrors that are alleged will happen.....in that SHTF scenario, many, if not most people will likely not care at all about buying and selling metals. Most people who will be feeling the effects of such a SHTF scenario will be desperate for necessities....ways to communicate with loved ones and friends (which equals always having new or charged batteries and a means of accessing electricity), food, medications, etc, etc, etc. People can't eat metal. Many things may temporarily function as money for ordinary people, including precious metals which isn't money today for the vast majority of people on earth. Along with precious metals temporarily functioning as money, cigarettes, water sanitizing tablets, batteries, dry ground coffee, (and potentially even bullets, depending on how bad things actually got) and other such things might very well also function as money.

Now there are some important differences between precious metals like gold and silver and many other commodities, even other metals. These differences coupled with the fact that Au and Ag have had a very long history of being greatly valued as an asset and even as money, is what gives silver and gold an edge in terms of in demand commodities for some people. This history will be with humanity to some degree for a very long time I believe. Au and Ag will never become valueless since there will always be people who value it (thereby subjectively attaching value to these metals).


Bottom line, metals can not function like insurance.




I like polished silver, it's shiny.



.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top