Jim4silver
Well-Known Member
mmissinglink said:
Too bad they can't seem to figure out how to wash the stuff off when it's done.
Jim
New information on the source of milk spots and hazing
- Thread starter SpacePete
- Start date
Too bad they can't seem to figure out how to wash the stuff off when it's done.
Jim
If they wash it off then they wont have the improved surface quality of the coins and the tripled the die life. Or at least thats how i read it.
mmissinglink
Active Member
Northerncoins said:
So the logic then would be, "Screw the people, we're making even more money!"
If that's the case, then maybe that's why some people's/collector's response has been to slow or stop altogether buying certain silver coins....and maybe this is just the beginning of such a trend by people / collectors until these mints put their customers above their reaping of additional profits.
.
mmissinglink said:
The article isn't available through ResearchGate. Tony Ying is on linkedin but I don't use it. If you can find one of the author's email addresses, just write them an email saying Dear, Dr. Ying, I would like to request a copy of your article.... Sincerly mmissinglink and they'll likely send it to you.
barsenault
Well-Known Member
Sure does appear to be a shell game at the mints. Doesn't appear there will be a lack of demand to force their hand, unfortunately!
bron suchecki said:
So if your team are having difficulties finding the source of the problem, I have several gentlemen involved in nano science who are willing to take samples. We are quite happy to look into it. Give us the green light and we will PM you on our findings.
Cheers
I don't really think Bron can solve this problem. And to be quite honest, I'm not sure if The Perth Mint really want solve this issue at this point of time. The customer will vent their frustrations over the milk spot issue for quite a while. From a personal stance, l'm quite happy to independently investigate the milk spot issue as the inquisitive nature in me wants to find the answer.
As from a forum point of view, it is heavily biased to favour those with commercial activities rather than support the activities of the customer. If you stand apart and defend the customer, I've found you get shot down by the same gang of people who use the forum for their commercial activities. Those who stand up in the line of fire defending consumer rights will cop the most flack. And the closer you get to the truth the more bullet ridden you become. You can see the members who always say thanks to those who are commercially invested in this forum. Those who take a stance and question a product will get little appreciation. When clearly expressing a point of view, posts are misunderstood and barely read before a misquoted comment is fired back at you.
There needs to a forum that simply houses the questions and answers of those who are strictly interested in the consumer side of bullion. I fit in that camp. I have zero interest in using this forum for commercial gain. There are plenty of other ways for me to make a crust in life.
If I was a mint or a seller / dealer I would take heed to every comment every customer makes. And I'm not talking about Australia , I mean globally. The fervour for the Perth Mint Product and many other mints products have lost their sheen post 2012. The phenomenon of the youtube years of SilverfishVT and others at their peek is all but lost to a few diehards. There will always be a few newbies that have joined the bandwagon. But they will be sadly disappointed when their beloved semi-numi collection has changed state. And like many they will abandon bullion. The quality control of many mints is systemic and the problem is global. And I hate to say this - this is bankrupt business model destined to fail.
Cheers
As from a forum point of view, it is heavily biased to favour those with commercial activities rather than support the activities of the customer. If you stand apart and defend the customer, I've found you get shot down by the same gang of people who use the forum for their commercial activities. Those who stand up in the line of fire defending consumer rights will cop the most flack. And the closer you get to the truth the more bullet ridden you become. You can see the members who always say thanks to those who are commercially invested in this forum. Those who take a stance and question a product will get little appreciation. When clearly expressing a point of view, posts are misunderstood and barely read before a misquoted comment is fired back at you.
There needs to a forum that simply houses the questions and answers of those who are strictly interested in the consumer side of bullion. I fit in that camp. I have zero interest in using this forum for commercial gain. There are plenty of other ways for me to make a crust in life.
If I was a mint or a seller / dealer I would take heed to every comment every customer makes. And I'm not talking about Australia , I mean globally. The fervour for the Perth Mint Product and many other mints products have lost their sheen post 2012. The phenomenon of the youtube years of SilverfishVT and others at their peek is all but lost to a few diehards. There will always be a few newbies that have joined the bandwagon. But they will be sadly disappointed when their beloved semi-numi collection has changed state. And like many they will abandon bullion. The quality control of many mints is systemic and the problem is global. And I hate to say this - this is bankrupt business model destined to fail.
Cheers
Porcello said:
For sure, but which ones "dont" develop milkspots and or fogginess etc? I dont think anyone here really knows. Has anyone made a list of bullion that does develop milkspots? Maybe we can post a thread of known problem bullion and keep adding to it with pictures etc.
Porcello said:
Spot on..But the list is mounting each year and growing. The writing is on the wall. Myself and several buddies who normally buy many of the new season series have said no. The grumblings about high premiums has begun..And all this talk about shortages which is artificial inflation, which will plunge sales this time around. As this is a common event around times of economic uncertainty, but people are wise to it now. The likes of the Mike Maloneys and Chris Duanes have made sure of that. I have no problem getting bullion these days with no milk spots. Mind you, I target bullion impervious to this current epidemic..
Cheers.
There is nothing more I can add, I have passed this thread on to our production guys.
bron suchecki said:
Great!
Hi Production Guys!
As you can see we are all unhappy. Especially being fed misinformation. We'd like the truth and transparency about what specifically occurs, why it's taken so long to fix and what's being done to fix it?
It's a duty to provide a quality product without having it impaired and thus resulting in being devalued. It's important to you and the dealers and customers because at the end of the day, customers are affected and have a right to voice their grievances.
Also people who buy coins are not stupid and should not be treated with contempt. We realize what's going on. There are scientist among us who are indeed very clever people.
Thank you for taking the time to read this thread. We'd like a public statement to be made.
Regards,
MM
The public outcry is building and building and building...This is beginning of THE END
barsenault
Well-Known Member
I gotta feeling, though I hope I'm wrong, that greed (i.e. profits) are more important than quality. Especially as long as people continue to buy the product, which we know they will. I know I will no longer spend more than a few bucks over spot for a nice bullion coin. Just not happening any more. Not with this issue hanging over their heads. No way, Jose.
Gatito Bandito
Active Member
barsenault said:
I'm thinking the mints probably originally looked at this as a win-win for both the mint & their end-customers..
Would save on some costs (by utilizing certain techniques / processes), and would pull in more revenue with the resulting more-frequent better strikes -- while the customers get to enjoy all those coins with quality strikes / nicer appearance.
And they would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for those meddling spots..
Gatito Bandito said:
Quality will always win out long term. Isn't it a little bit coincidental all mints decided to save on costs all at the same time ? Did they have a pow wow ? The sound of distant drums are fading.
Gatito Bandito said:
Sure it's greed to save money, no doubt about it. Notice how this thread has become dominated by customers.
I don't think they deliberately went into this hoping for milk spots, so don't think they were "getting away" with anything other than to try and gain improvements. But it's back fired.
silversearcher said:
Unfortunately quality doesn't win out. Look around, take furniture, it's nearly all cheap garbage for the masses. Or appliances, they're cheap and designed not to last unless you spend a lot and most don't.
Can't remember who said it... but most of what people buy is just landfill material.
With Perth Mint, this type of attention and genuine grievance from customers has been met thus far very badly. Perth Mint products are awesome, no doubt about it. But the milk spot plague has been a major issue and their response has been substandard.
Miloman said:
True with cheap furniture and many cheap products. But items that are intrinsically speculative or collectible and kept in good original condition will always hold it's value against inflation, and often out pace inflation. Such items can be quality watches, coins, rarer stamps or rarer vinyl LPs or comics etc. If you were to buy a rare Johnny O'Keefe album today and kept in good condition it will well and truly go up in value in ten years time or keep up with inflation. This will never be true with a coin that turns milky on you. These coins are destined to fail as a collectible. And for the manufacturer and seller a failing business model. They will only be worth spot, not quite landfill material but not with worth forking money out on. You have every right to complain. The obvious absence of those not sticking up for the consumer is apparent. Like anyone, your money is hard earned and plays a vital role in the life of you or your family. Spend it wisely my friend.
kutylin
Active Member
Just curious. Do coins from 19th and 20th centuries have spots? And will old silver coins have patina anyway? If is is so maybe silver stackers better not devalue coins with spots and just see it as normal condition of a coin?
P.S. Silver coins from Russian mint also are milky very often.
P.S. Silver coins from Russian mint also are milky very often.