I think Andrewlee10s point is not to denigrate the medal, but to point out that no credit was given to the mint for this design. It seems to me if you go to the trouble of putting out a new medal, the design should be new as well. Maybe just a case of laziness, or wanting to get the medal out fast without having to think up an original design. Just my opinion.
New! Heart Shaped Pandas from the China Mint
- Thread starter Pandacollector
- Start date
Question is not about the design on the heart shaped medal and the Nanjing panda silver note, but about the sitting panda on the Nanjing note and the one on NGC label with red background on specimen in the first page.
Sitting panda of Nanjing note is also a copy.
Sitting panda of Nanjing note is also a copy.
If I did not make myself clear, I apologize. I was commenting on the label design. I in fact bought two of the medals. I think it would have been better suited to have come up with an original label. Also, if I was not to have come up with an original label, I would not use a label that had been used by someone so recently.
Stark said:
My point is hearth shape panda is so cute and special which design by well know designer of Shenyang mint. It fully support and credit by the panda book author. The ngc label with his signature and photo. The label must not take a quick fix. The label can use the heart shape panda medal design itself. As Bobbie comment on it too.
It shall corrected early Since knowing that it is identical and resemble of others mint design. Later than do nothing and saying it is ngc problem even know it early.
Andy, I agree with you that NGC choice of the label is not the best decision as it's not an original design, and could be done much better consider the uniqueness of the medal. I guess some amount of laziness and "lowering costs" was involved. Unfortunately.
However you cannot claim under any conditions that Nanjing sitting panda is an original design, because it's not. It's at least 5 years old. So only because it goes for precious metals design should be changed? But for precious metals any design can be used, even if it's copy of another one? To say differently. NGC made a mistake because using design that was used on another precious metals products, but Nanjing mint didn't make a mistake when it was not using an original design?
If you use Google's search by image option, you soon find a lot of websites with the same design. And many pages that are offering "royalty free" images of this panda.
Originally I found this panda on Gizmodo page:
http://gizmodo.com/5816011/you-can-get-paid-to-track-down-panda-doo-doo-in-china
There are stickers made with the same panda:
http://stickeramoi.com/jungle/6733-sticker-mural-maman-panda.html
Same panda used on the web page from August 2016:
http://mentalfloss.com/article/84418/take-ride-chinas-new-panda-themed-subway-train
Same panda used on the website from 2011:
https://dancepandadance.blogspot.co.at/2011_06_01_archive.html
If design should be respected and its author then this should be applied regardless of the material on/for which design is being used. Otherwise I can make a medal with Apple logo or start printing shirts with Apple logo. Of course, Apple's logo is registered trademark. This panda image is most likely not protected, otherwise Google wouldn't find so many pages.
This is thrashy movie from '80:
Source: https://trampyandthetramp.blogspot.co.at/2010/05/watch-with-mutter-no-1-gymkata.html
This is a shirt design that won 20$k reward:
Source: https://www.threadless.com/product/6047/Ninjesus/tab,guys
Of course it's not a direct copy, but it copies the idea. For some this would be a "homage", for others "easy" way to earn money.
I remember when Goat Skull came out, that people were complaining that they saw image of the goat skull before on the internet. Most likely on the web site of the designer.
Will NGC change the label? I doubt.
However you cannot claim under any conditions that Nanjing sitting panda is an original design, because it's not. It's at least 5 years old. So only because it goes for precious metals design should be changed? But for precious metals any design can be used, even if it's copy of another one? To say differently. NGC made a mistake because using design that was used on another precious metals products, but Nanjing mint didn't make a mistake when it was not using an original design?
If you use Google's search by image option, you soon find a lot of websites with the same design. And many pages that are offering "royalty free" images of this panda.
Originally I found this panda on Gizmodo page:
http://gizmodo.com/5816011/you-can-get-paid-to-track-down-panda-doo-doo-in-china
There are stickers made with the same panda:
http://stickeramoi.com/jungle/6733-sticker-mural-maman-panda.html
Same panda used on the web page from August 2016:
http://mentalfloss.com/article/84418/take-ride-chinas-new-panda-themed-subway-train
Same panda used on the website from 2011:
https://dancepandadance.blogspot.co.at/2011_06_01_archive.html
If design should be respected and its author then this should be applied regardless of the material on/for which design is being used. Otherwise I can make a medal with Apple logo or start printing shirts with Apple logo. Of course, Apple's logo is registered trademark. This panda image is most likely not protected, otherwise Google wouldn't find so many pages.
This is thrashy movie from '80:
Source: https://trampyandthetramp.blogspot.co.at/2010/05/watch-with-mutter-no-1-gymkata.html
This is a shirt design that won 20$k reward:
Source: https://www.threadless.com/product/6047/Ninjesus/tab,guys
Of course it's not a direct copy, but it copies the idea. For some this would be a "homage", for others "easy" way to earn money.
I remember when Goat Skull came out, that people were complaining that they saw image of the goat skull before on the internet. Most likely on the web site of the designer.
Will NGC change the label? I doubt.
Stark said:
I did not claim the Nanjing panda foil note is the original in the thread. You did show very early in http://gizmodo.com/5816011/you-can-get- o-in-china. which is resemble the design of both.
NGC require the person send grading more than 100 pieces in order to get a own design/special label. We have tried to get special label for monkey panda medal so we did checked with NGC. The own design/special label will get the customer consent before printing. The customer know it is identical to others and precious metal (other type of product) and agree on it would not be good as you and Bobbie refer this as laziness and push to market fast reason. I refer this as behaviour and character of the person. I do not think lowering cost is the key factor here because NGC can just take the heart shape panda design and make it as label without increase in significant cost at all.
Someone here has tried many times by saying we like to denigrate others. He/she still keep buying our sponsor items from our resellers from past 2 years. I really no ideas his/her objective and intention.
This very conflict character with inconsistent behaviours. He try to be a star BUT fail. Good try.
Sorry I seldom to flame up of those matters BUT I really cannot imagine of this person behaviour. Many odd people in numic community. our active member mmssing has experienced it again recently in this forum.
This very conflict character with inconsistent behaviours. He try to be a star BUT fail. Good try.
Sorry I seldom to flame up of those matters BUT I really cannot imagine of this person behaviour. Many odd people in numic community. our active member mmssing has experienced it again recently in this forum.
Pandacollector
Active Member
andrewlee10 said:
Andrew,
In the photography business it is very, very common for photographers to non-exclusively license the use of their images to multiple clients. This is called stock photography and it's a big business. There is absolutely nothing immoral, or unethical if the same photo is licensed to more than one user. Some photos can sell over and over again for decades and photographers can make quite a bit of money this way. It certainly does not reflect badly on the character of the user who paid a license fee. If you tell someone they have done something wrong by using a licensed photo this would not be considered a reasonable complaint.
Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com
KeepOnTrying!
Member
yennus said:Hi Pandacollector, any special offers for SilverStacker members?
Good idea!
I hope that medals that remain after the Pricepedia subscribers have ordered theirs can be made available to members of this forum. There is strong support here in this forum for Chinese medal collection.
Thanks and best wishes.
@Andy, that's why I put "costs" in double quotes.
I don't think that this label is so problematic, however I'm sad why NGC didn't choose less generic picture of sitting panda even if it's a nice one.
Dunno particularly about whom are you are talking, but there are some people that have double standards and are acting differently as they say everywhere, sadly also in precious metals community which is our beloved hobby and usually includes higher amounts of money. I saw the attacks on mmissinglink and I'm also sad that this is happening on the forum that probably has more adult members than average, besides bowling related forums.
Special labels can be nice, making slab more unique, but as I said before I really don't like them that much as I think they are going out of control. And are sometimes served just to boost sales.
So all concerns should be directed to NGC. I don't know Peter how or how much you were involved in NGC label and I guess you were not aware before and cannot do much now, but I think you should contact them if they can change picture, making it more unique.
The last experience I had with NGC was basically completely terrible. As time is flying by, my pain is somehow decreasing, but one day I might share the story.
I don't think that this label is so problematic, however I'm sad why NGC didn't choose less generic picture of sitting panda even if it's a nice one.Dunno particularly about whom are you are talking, but there are some people that have double standards and are acting differently as they say everywhere, sadly also in precious metals community which is our beloved hobby and usually includes higher amounts of money. I saw the attacks on mmissinglink and I'm also sad that this is happening on the forum that probably has more adult members than average, besides bowling related forums.
Special labels can be nice, making slab more unique, but as I said before I really don't like them that much as I think they are going out of control. And are sometimes served just to boost sales.
So all concerns should be directed to NGC. I don't know Peter how or how much you were involved in NGC label and I guess you were not aware before and cannot do much now, but I think you should contact them if they can change picture, making it more unique.
The last experience I had with NGC was basically completely terrible. As time is flying by, my pain is somehow decreasing, but one day I might share the story.
Pandacollector
Active Member
yennus said:Hi Pandacollector, any special offers for SilverStacker members?
Let me see what is left over. I will try.
Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com
Pandacollector
Active Member
Stark said:@Andy, that's why I put "costs" in double quotes.
Dunno particularly about whom are you are talking, but there are some people that have double standards and are acting differently as they say everywhere, sadly also in precious metals community which is our beloved hobby and usually includes higher amounts of money. I saw the attacks on mmissinglink and I'm also sad that this is happening on the forum that probably has more adult members than average, besides bowling related forums.
Special labels can be nice, making slab more unique, but as I said before I really don't like them that much as I think they are going out of control. And are sometimes served just to boost sales.
So all concerns should be directed to NGC. I don't know Peter how or how much you were involved in NGC label and I guess you were not aware before and cannot do much now, but I think you should contact them if they can change picture, making it more unique.
The last experience I had with NGC was basically completely terrible. As time is flying by, my pain is somehow decreasing, but one day I might share the story.
In the future, it would be nice to have one of the photos of pandas that I took used on a label.
Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com
Pandacollector
Active Member
Stark said:Yes, that would be far better. Would clear any concerns and would fit better uniqueness of the medal.
This label was not originally designed for the Valentine Pandas, but as something for more general use.
Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com
Stark said:@Andy, that's why I put "costs" in double quotes.
Dunno particularly about whom are you are talking, but there are some people that have double standards and are acting differently as they say everywhere, sadly also in precious metals community which is our beloved hobby and usually includes higher amounts of money. I saw the attacks on mmissinglink and I'm also sad that this is happening on the forum that probably has more adult members than average, besides bowling related forums.
Special labels can be nice, making slab more unique, but as I said before I really don't like them that much as I think they are going out of control. And are sometimes served just to boost sales.
So all concerns should be directed to NGC. I don't know Peter how or how much you were involved in NGC label and I guess you were not aware before and cannot do much now, but I think you should contact them if they can change picture, making it more unique.
The last experience I had with NGC was basically completely terrible. As time is flying by, my pain is somehow decreasing, but one day I might share the story.
Talk to NGC is stressing brass can grade as gold. Wrong wording and so on and on.
However, many collectors prefer NGC than PCGS. Take it or leave it. I take it even do not like it.
I have few sponsor friends in China who has a say of the special label of NGC for china coin. However, it is china NGC. I assume it is the same like USA.
Pandacollector said:Stark said:Yes, that would be far better. Would clear any concerns and would fit better uniqueness of the medal.
This label was not originally designed for the Valentine Pandas, but as something for more general use.
Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com
Hi Peter,
Dose NGC use the same panda label on other coins/medal?
Please post the photo here.
andrewlee10 said:Stark said:@Andy, that's why I put "costs" in double quotes.
Dunno particularly about whom are you are talking, but there are some people that have double standards and are acting differently as they say everywhere, sadly also in precious metals community which is our beloved hobby and usually includes higher amounts of money. I saw the attacks on mmissinglink and I'm also sad that this is happening on the forum that probably has more adult members than average, besides bowling related forums.
Special labels can be nice, making slab more unique, but as I said before I really don't like them that much as I think they are going out of control. And are sometimes served just to boost sales.
So all concerns should be directed to NGC. I don't know Peter how or how much you were involved in NGC label and I guess you were not aware before and cannot do much now, but I think you should contact them if they can change picture, making it more unique.
The last experience I had with NGC was basically completely terrible. As time is flying by, my pain is somehow decreasing, but one day I might share the story.
Talk to NGC is stressing brass can grade as gold. Wrong wording and so on and on.
However, many collectors prefer NGC than PCGS. Take it or leave it. I take it even do not like it.
I have few sponsor friends in China who has a say of the special label of NGC for china coin. However, it is china NGC. I assume it is the same like USA.
To me they are somehow like Windows operating system. Don't like many things, but for what I need seems to be "the best" and I like their holders more than the one from competition. Besides PCGS I think other TPG don't slab and grade big coins and medals.
Even though my opinion about Windows over the years and currently don't have any wish or need to use Mac again, I doubt I will try with PCGS. I sent them 2 emails and still didn't receive any answer. So first feeling is definitely not good. NGC Europe office service is top notch, experiences with US HQ are from very good to completely terrible. Without NGC Europe office I would probably cancel my membership.
So yeah, it currently doesn't seem likely I will switch, despite my recent submission decreased average "rating" dramatically.
mmissinglink
Active Member
As far as specialty labels, I think it would make more sense that the TPG's use a unique image to coincide with a particular collection, trademark (including signatures), or endorsement. So for example, with coins that are endorsed or signed by Peter Anthony, it only makes sense that they should come with a unique picture, not a stock image.
After all, a good deal of effort goes into putting together a special product such as this Peter Anthony endorsed Heart Panda....why would they skimp out on something so easily avoidable as not using a unique image??
.
After all, a good deal of effort goes into putting together a special product such as this Peter Anthony endorsed Heart Panda....why would they skimp out on something so easily avoidable as not using a unique image??
.
barsenault
Well-Known Member
Good dialogue. Thanks for Sharing. Hey Peter, are you the sponsor of the heart panda? Will it be a series? If you're not the sponsor, who is? Thanks.
Pandacollector
Active Member
andrewlee10 said:Pandacollector said:Stark said:Yes, that would be far better. Would clear any concerns and would fit better uniqueness of the medal.
This label was not originally designed for the Valentine Pandas, but as something for more general use.
Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com
Hi Peter,
Dose NGC use the same panda label on other coins/medal?
Please post the photo here.
It has not been used on anything else as far as I know.
Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com