Negative ROI For Royal Australian Mint Proof Coin Sets

SilverDJ

SilverDJ

Well-Known Member
Got the opportunity to look through a relatives proof coin collection from the 1980's, and wow, all of them show a negative return on investment!
Original buy price (direct from mint at the time) was recorded on the sets, and I didn't see one that showed a positive return, even when accounting for inflation.
e.g.:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-1988-Masterpieces-in-Silver-Proof-Set-/391130487435
Cost $95 in 1988, worth $76 now.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1982-XII...er-10-Coin-in-Presentation-Case-/131506308521
Cost $45 in 1982, worth $24 now
And ditto for all the $10 proof state coins I could find.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1988-Australian-2-silver-coin-proof-/271931075370
Cost $25 in 1988, worth $18 now

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1987-Australian-Proof-Set-/131540823696
Cost $49 in 1987, worth $27 no.

And on and on it went.
Sad.
 
SilverDJ said:
Got the opportunity to look through a relatives proof coin collection from the 1980's, and wow, all of them show a negative return on investment!
Original buy price (direct from mint at the time) was recorded on the sets, and I didn't see one that showed a positive return, even when accounting for inflation.
e.g.:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-1988-Masterpieces-in-Silver-Proof-Set-/391130487435
Cost $95 in 1988, worth $76 now.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1982-XII...er-10-Coin-in-Presentation-Case-/131506308521
Cost $45 in 1982, worth $24 now
And ditto for all the $10 proof state coins I could find.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1988-Australian-2-silver-coin-proof-/271931075370
Cost $25 in 1988, worth $18 now

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1987-Australian-Proof-Set-/131540823696
Cost $49 in 1987, worth $27 no.

And on and on it went.
Sad.
Click to expand...

To be fair...this probably wasn't the case in 2011.
Silver is stupid cheap currently. lol
 
-j-p-shmorgan said:
To be fair...this probably wasn't the case in 2011.
Silver is stupid cheap currently. lol
Click to expand...

True, but silver was only half what it is now in the 1980's. So the state coins have almost halved in value when the silver price has doubled, not taking into account inflation.
It's the numismatic value I'm talking about here.
Take into account inflation rate since 1982 of about 3.3 times, and those $10 proof state coins that cost $45 in 1982 should be worth about $297 in today's money.
Yet they are now worth about half of the original price, a drop of over 90%!

Now I'm not into numismatics, but surely that's got to be one of the worst returns ever? Not much better than throwing your money down the drain.
Anyone got any worse examples?
 
Any Perth Mint item would have a negative ROI bar just a few

Bullion costs you half as much and ends up with higher premiums.. a standard old PM poured bar is now worth double spot so proof coins and the premium you pay dont seem like much of a good deal if history is anything to go by.

1for1
 
SilverDJ said:
-j-p-shmorgan said:
To be fair...this probably wasn't the case in 2011.
Silver is stupid cheap currently. lol
Click to expand...

True, but silver was only half what it is now in the 1980's. So the state coins have almost halved in value when the silver price has doubled, not taking into account inflation.
It's the numismatic value I'm talking about here.
Take into account inflation rate since 1982 of about 3.3 times, and those $10 proof state coins that cost $45 in 1982 should be worth about $297 in today's money.
Yet they are now worth about half of the original price, a drop of over 90%!

Now I'm not into numismatics, but surely that's got to be one of the worst returns ever? Not much better than throwing your money down the drain.
Anyone got any worse examples?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's pretty bad. Another fine example showing that things are only worth what people are willing to pay.
 
what an UN numismatic price, none what is ever now :)

numismatic is what had been paid for, now there were gone.
 
The proof sets, particularly early to mid 1980's, have not held value at all. There is no silver in those sets, so it is numismatic value only. IMO it is just indicating a declining interest in those sort of pursuits/hobbies. Stamps even more so.
 
Casper said:
The proof sets, particularly early to mid 1980's, have not held value at all. There is no silver in those sets, so it is numismatic value only. IMO it is just indicating a declining interest in those sort of pursuits/hobbies. Stamps even more so.
Click to expand...

Unless they are forever stamps. :lol:
 
that's because they purchased the wrong items.
the book value (I have a 1988 price guide) of a 1904 Perth 1/2 sovereign in unc condition in 1988 was $4500
Today it is $22,000 and will often sell for more if good unc
the trap a lot of people fall into is buying an item that is sold as "collectable" thinking they will make money
You need to know what will become valuable before it does and the only way to have a chance of doing that is to understand the market
Most mum and dad small time collectors end up losing at least 1/2 their money when they sell unless they get luck and strike upon a variant
 
Casper said:
The proof sets, particularly early to mid 1980's, have not held value at all. There is no silver in those sets, so it is numismatic value only. IMO it is just indicating a declining interest in those sort of pursuits/hobbies. Stamps even more so.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say it's declining interest but rather massively increased supply.

When you consider the enormous amounts of additional mint product being released each year, the market size needs to increase by an equivalent rate just to sustain current prices.
 
Proofs bought for retail price are pretty much guaranteed to lose money except for a few exceptions.
Most silver proofs are sold for 4 times or more of spot. If collectors are not interested you need silver to rise 400% just to break even.

Unless you are lucky enough to only have bought series 1 lunar proofs, redback spiders and roo at sunsets, you'd probably lose overall.


I once bought a set of stamp replicas made from sterling silver for less than $200 (below spot at the time) that originally cost about $3000 from Aus Post in the late 80s.
 
Most of the pre 1975 proof sets are selling for more than $150 because of their scarcity.
 
I saw someone pass around a proof set at the numismatic society meeting just in the last week and they are great looking coins, something everyone agreed on, but the price of the ones less than 40 years old are only just now starting to turn. One of the dealers there commented that the old adage was that the styrofoam boxes they came in were the most valuable part of the set.
I wouldn't mind picking up a common year, they're really nice looking coins for the price. I don't have much interest in a rare or old years though, perhaps a 1966 would be cool though.
 
back in those days,there was no kookaburra,lunar or any other "collectable" coin from the perth mint.only RAM coins.so people bought them, thinking whatever they were thinking...I just dont see the love for these item.Always had a hard time to move them.I wont touch them,even if they dirt cheap.sorry RAM :(
 
here are some for the RAM coin lovers :http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/west-end/collectables/coin-collection-for-sale-offers-invited/1085057935
 
I think coin collecting is hitting a low in popularity these days. All the (few remaining) dealers I talk to say that it is bad for them and even worse for the stamp dealers.

Some blame the mints for over saturating the market with so many issues others just say that young people are plainly not interested.

Either way it is sad. Those 1980's state series coins I have collected have been bought for $13 or so each. They are lovely coins but are really just another form of bullion now.
 
Miksture said:
I think coin collecting is hitting a low in popularity these days. All the (few remaining) dealers I talk to say that it is bad for them and even worse for the stamp dealers.

Some blame the mints for over saturating the market with so many issues others just say that young people are plainly not interested.

Either way it is sad. Those 1980's state series coins I have collected have been bought for $13 or so each. They are lovely coins but are really just another form of bullion now.
Click to expand...

I do think that mints flooding the market with poorly designed and tacky (often colored) coins has had the effect of devaluing coins across the board in the eyes of younger collectors.

And now tastes seems to be changing. I think younger collectors are moving away from mass produced, cookie-cutter objects and are now placing value in things that have the feel of being more authentic, like hand pours from smaller producers.
 
SilverPete said:
Miksture said:
I think coin collecting is hitting a low in popularity these days. All the (few remaining) dealers I talk to say that it is bad for them and even worse for the stamp dealers.

Some blame the mints for over saturating the market with so many issues others just say that young people are plainly not interested.

Either way it is sad. Those 1980's state series coins I have collected have been bought for $13 or so each. They are lovely coins but are really just another form of bullion now.
Click to expand...

I do think that mints flooding the market with poorly designed and tacky (often colored) coins has had the effect of devaluing coins across the board in the eyes of younger collectors.

And now tastes seems to be changing. I think younger collectors are moving away from mass produced, cookie-cutter objects and are now placing value in things that have the feel of being more authentic, like hand pours from smaller producers.
Click to expand...

Either way Pete, the numbers are way down. They are also saying that the average age of the new collector is around 40 now rather than in the teens.
 
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