NCS Experiment

heyimderrick

heyimderrick

Active Member
A while back I posted some photos of a beat up 1994 S10Y panda that I "rescued". I later decided that I would submit it to NCS as an experiment to see if they could restore any of its former glory. Below are the results.

*Warning: This is just to illustrate one experience and is not meant to say NCS is good or bad. I know many people have had many great experiences with them. I've had both great and terrible experiences with them, and encourage any one interested to give them a try if they think the expense is worth it.

This post is also meant to illustrate one form of the white spots of death that aren't removable by NCS.


Before NCS...

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After NCS...

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This coin was submitted under NCS' modern tier service where conservation and grading was performed at a flat rate. After round trip shipping in a batch of 15 coins, my expense for the service on this coin was $29.53.
 
Look like whitespots cannot remove but did a great job in removing those stained at the rim side .
not bad imo
 
Catseye said:
A sad and costly experiment, appreciate you taking the hit for the rest of us.
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No problem. I was curious. I was hoping for a better result. jc888888888 had a coin with quite similar stains in a PCGS holder that came back from PCGS' conservation team looking nearly new. You win some you lose some. I'll likely be letting my NGC membership expire this year as the costs are just getting too high and the grading game can get quite costly if you don't always get high results.
 
Lim said:
Look like whitespots cannot remove but did a great job in removing those stained at the rim side .
not bad imo
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Yeah, they do a great job on surface residues and dirt, etc. I think this white stuff is a case of chemicals used at the mint being stamped into the metal and eventually rising to the surface.
 
PCGS conservation team?!?! I've always thought they used NCS.

So maybe the small spiky white spots are the types that may be able to be removed... the ones on this sorry bear are large 'ghosty' spots
 
25Grizzlies said:
PCGS conservation team?!?! I've always thought they used NCS.

So maybe the small spiky white spots are the types that may be able to be removed... the ones on this sorry bear are large 'ghosty' spots
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Agreed completely...... !! all milk spots are not created equal ,those ghosty ones are there forever:( IMHO whereas others can be improved ,but probably not completely vanished.........

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Just wanted to say a big Thank you to heyimderrick for providing us this valuable info at his expense ,this goes a long way in education when buying raw or OMP coins,it also speaks volumes to NGC,s position on how it currently grades milk spotted coins, I have bought a total of 6 graded ms69 and 68 expo,s off e bay both 1999,s and 1998,s not conserved all older NGC holders, only because they where so cheap (under current high quality OMP prices) and secondly just out of curiosity , ALL 6 coins where returned !( it only cost me $5 to return a coin here) all had milk spots.....and IMHO NGC would not grade these coins MS66 today,my advise: do not buy or bid coins from low quality scans ask for actual pictures or at least ask seller about the condition of the coin and return policy.... The big question is IMHO??? ,I dont believe NGC took into account a few years ago a small amount of milk spots on a coin when determining a grade,they certainly do now as they have liability issues under their warranty , So is there going to be 2 classes of coins MS69 with spots ........or without spots? As yennus always says ,no 2 panda,s are created equal:)
 
DaBoz said:
If you would like to try MS-70 on those spots , you may have some luck. I have removed light reside with it successfully. I suspect that some of it is leached PVC from the outer wrap, so a dip in acetone should follow.


http://www.amazon.com/MS-70-oz-Coin...TF8&qid=1339766958&sr=8-2&keywords=ms70+coins
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I do not think this is PVC surface residue that can be removed in any way. A while back I sent in a handful of MS69 coins that developed similar staining while in the holders. Under NGC's guarantee they will either replace the coin, send it to NCS if it can be restored, or compensate you for the expense. I was compensated in all cases. I spoke with one of the top NCS guys about the stains and what was causing them, and in short, it is from chemicals used on the dyes during the minting process. Remnants of the chemicals at times end up stamped into the metal and eventually work their way to the surface of the coin over time. This is an impurity in the metal that apparently no type of cleaning or conservation efforts can remove. That's what I was told by the pro, so that's what I have to go with.
 
heyimderrick said:
DaBoz said:
If you would like to try MS-70 on those spots , you may have some luck. I have removed light reside with it successfully. I suspect that some of it is leached PVC from the outer wrap, so a dip in acetone should follow.


http://www.amazon.com/MS-70-oz-Coin...TF8&qid=1339766958&sr=8-2&keywords=ms70+coins
Click to expand...

I do not think this is PVC surface residue that can be removed in any way. A while back I sent in a handful of MS69 coins that developed similar staining while in the holders. Under NGC's guarantee they will either replace the coin, send it to NCS if it can be restored, or compensate you for the expense. I was compensated in all cases. I spoke with one of the top NCS guys about the stains and what was causing them, and in short, it is from chemicals used on the dyes during the minting process. Remnants of the chemicals at times end up stamped into the metal and eventually work their way to the surface of the coin over time. This is an impurity in the metal that apparently no type of cleaning or conservation efforts can remove. That's what I was told by the pro, so that's what I have to go with.
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How much compensate are they giving as got a couple of ms69 having some white-spot ? Wondering i should send it back ...Let me know ... Thanks .
 
Lim said:
How much compensate are they giving as got a couple of ms69 having some white-spot ? Wondering i should send it back ...Let me know ... Thanks .
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They pay the current fair market value/replacement cost of the coin. There is a form that you have to fill out to submit coins for appearance review. On the form there is a column where you declare the value. Do not sell yourself short. They will use that declared value. So before sending in the coins, look around and see how much it would actually cost for you to replace them. Also, do not try to inflate the price because they will not honor it.
 
heyimderrick said:
Lim said:
How much compensate are they giving as got a couple of ms69 having some white-spot ? Wondering i should send it back ...Let me know ... Thanks .
Click to expand...

They pay the current fair market value/replacement cost of the coin. There is a form that you have to fill out to submit coins for appearance review. On the form there is a column where you declare the value. Do not sell yourself short. They will use that declared value. So before sending in the coins, look around and see how much it would actually cost for you to replace them. Also, do not try to inflate the price because they will not honor it.
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That cool .. I believe they will use their own price guide to have a gauge how much to payout as well ........Might try to send it out for my next submission of coins.
Thanks derrick .
 
PVC is easily removed in its early stages with Acetone or MEK. No harm to the coins. I have done it many many times to my medals collection which are routinely heavily stained with green PVC residue when I purchased them. it is a common practice to use acetone for its removal.

MS-70 is a mild detergent that removes things from coins you would not believe. I am not guessing here. Cotton balls and q-tips will take off everything except in medal deterioration which can occur from prolonged PVC exposure, and maybe the stuff in these pandas. Do not use MS-70 on White metal! I did take some minor cloud off a 2010 with MS-70.
 
jc888888888 said:
The big question is IMHO??? ,I dont believe NGC took into account a few years ago a small amount of milk spots on a coin when determining a grade,they certainly do now as they have liability issues under their warranty , So is there going to be 2 classes of coins MS69 with spots ........or without spots? As yennus always says ,no 2 panda,s are created equal:)
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I think you have nailed it , this is what I have been thinking as well , it seems like some of the older ms69s have some spots and problems that would grade lower now especially some of the pcgs coins I have seen.
 
DaBoz, first you suggest using MS-70 on silver Panda and then you say not to use it on white metal? I am confused...
 
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