Moving gold out of Australia

Phiber

Phiber

Well-Known Member
Silver Stacker
Hi guys,

I know the topic has been discussed many times already, but to this day I am yet to find a consistent answer on this and this is why I wanted to give this another go.
Alright, so the topic is: moving PMs, especially gold (given its more manageable value/size ratio) internationally and especially out of Australia.
Especially interesting would be for amounts over the $10K limit - in bullion value, simply because it is in a clearer area - below 10K one could argue this does not need to be reported at all.
For the purpose of this, let's ignore destination country as it only complicates things.


I have heard various opinions on this matter:

- No need to declare gold at all
- Legal tenders (such as Perth Mint coins) are only considered for their face value, not their market value and do not need to be declared if the face value is below 10K
- Gold bars should always be declared for their market value
- No need to declare if the bullion value is below 10K, but it should be declared if value is above 10K
- Gold should be declared regardless of the value
- Better to declare it all anyway: although I agree, if this is not legally needed, then I - and without doubt others - would rather not


Bron has given his opinion in an excellent article about this topic that I feels deserves sharing.
Please note as Bron outlines, it is not legal advice.

http://goldchat.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/moving-gold-inoutaround-australia.html


Note the following:


The definitions section in the AUSTRAC Act 2006 defines physical currency such:

"physical currency means the coin and printed money (whether of Australia or of a foreign country) that: (a) is designated as legal tender; and (b) circulates as, and is customarily used and accepted as, a medium of exchange in the country of issue."

would seem to exclude Perth Mint coins and bars as they don't circulate as money.
Click to expand...


I guess my question is simply: has anyone taken over 10K in bullion value out of Australia?
If so, what customs declarations where required?

I will also probably ask the customs directly, but it would be interesting to know if anyone here has attempted this.
I know a lot of people like to think they could move their PMs overseas if needed, especially when it comes to coins.

ta
 
Surely the issue is (generally) not the country you take the article or instrument out of, it's the country you take it into. You don't go through customs on exit, you go through on entry.

Bringing Perth Mint coinage is easy to do into Australia, and Oz has a differing set of rules to the UK, for example - The matter of three-nines PMs as opposed to 22k, and the taxation on specific items such as Krugerrands. I've brought in (and declared) PM PMs into Oz - no hassle.

Which country do you want to take it to? Then you read up on their regs and look for advice, I think.
 
9265_lamb.jpg
 
I believe you are incorrect. Customs can (and do) hassle people about how much cash (or equivalent) they are taking out of the country.
They can ask you to prove where you got it from etc. and can (and do) confiscate it if they don't like you answer.
 
Um, have you ever flown internationally Yippe?

You go through Customs entering a country, not leaving it. All you go through when leaving Australia is Immigration.
 
goldpelican said:
Um, have you ever flown internationally Yippe?

You go through Customs entering a country, not leaving it. All you go through when leaving Australia is Immigration.
Click to expand...

yes.
ot containe
i dont mean Customs, but there are government/airport officials who can (and do) question you on what's contained/not contained in your declarations
 
Are they allowed to look at your laptop?

Reason I ask is, I was pulled aside a few years ago and the guy opened up my laptop and started it up. I was going to complain but then realised it automatically booted into linux and pretty much knew he wouldn't have a clue what he was doing anyway. So I just smiled and didn't worry about it. :) Turned out to be right, he gave up straight away But I was wondering if they do have that right.
 
hawkeye said:
Are they allowed to look at your laptop?

Reason I ask is, I was pulled aside a few years ago and the guy opened up my laptop and started it up. I was going to complain but then realised it automatically booted into linux and pretty much knew he wouldn't have a clue what he was doing anyway. So I just smiled and didn't worry about it. :) Turned out to be right, he gave up straight away But I was wondering if they do have that right.
Click to expand...
Theyve never started mine up just ask me to pull it out of the bag & send them through seperately. The OS adapters got some scrutiny at one place though they must have a circuit board in them or something .They were giving me the eye then looked at each other & smiled when they pulled them out then waved me through
 
Also, the back of the passenger card mentions the following:

Outgoing_passsenger_card.png


One could argue whether gold would fall under the definition of bearer negotiable instruments?

That's what Austrac has to say about it:

http://www.austrac.gov.au/bnis.html


What is a BNI?
A BNI is a non-cash monetary instrument which may contain the instruction 'pay to the bearer.' The bearer is the person in possession of the BNI. Common examples of BNIs are cheques, promissory notes, traveller's cheques, bearer bonds, money orders and postal orders.
Click to expand...

If a BNI does not specify a payee, does it need to be declared?
BNIs that do not specify a payee still need to be declared to a Customs or police officer if requested.
Click to expand...


No direct mention to gold, but I have a gut-feeling it is unlikely gold does not need to be declared at all.

Thoughts?
 
My understanding.

'Officially' PMs in non coin form are not considered money by most Governments (regardless of the differing view of a typical Stacker), and true of Australia.

If PMs are in the form of coins, then the denomination is the declarable value. e.g. take 399 of those $25 1/5th Oz gold kangaroos and you would have $9975 of 'monetary instruments' that would be worth $123500 at spot. Under the $10K - so no need to declare (assume you have no other cash!).

If in ingot/bullion form - then it has no declarable value of interest to Australia - but certain countries may have differing and specific rules upon entry.

How you obtained it, and any profits you might make when selling is of interest to the tax man - not customs.
 
It talks about currency and physical cash. Gold bars do not fit under that but coins could as they have a face value but as I said in my blog post, the AUSTRAC definition of physical cash does not include PMs.

Bar or coins are not BNIs either.
 
This ?

24 carat chunkiness, are they going to stop you and test the purity ? A kilo would look mighty fine and not too outrageous, maybe have it coated in pure silver just for something different.

il_570xN.302651177.jpg

Source:http://www.etsy.com/listing/90402246/ultra-bold-chunky-gold-necklace-chunky
 
R0011602.JPG


try to bling 20 of this in :lol:

ipad, with Joyce stick to control a drone :)
 
bron suchecki said:
It talks about currency and physical cash. Gold bars do not fit under that but coins could as they have a face value but as I said in my blog post, the AUSTRAC definition of physical cash does not include PMs.

Bar or coins are not BNIs either.
Click to expand...

Thanks & bump.
 
every time when I traveled domestically and carried some PM's they did not even know what is that...every time...

people who do not follow this stuff they dont have a clue about value of pm's..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top