More FAKES - Warning 2 Rand Gold South Africa - SMALLER DENOMINATIONS

[sammysilver]

I don't know what all the criticism is about, it's a fair warning to collectors of SA Rand.

I've posted in the Sydney meet thread that I'm taking along a '37 crown counterfeit I picked up yesterday at the markets. We'll poke it, scrutinise it, opine it, and then I'll post another thread about it as a warning.

 

[GoldenEye]

is there a possibility there is something different from tungsten internally? Maybe even an alloy of gold and something else to fool the tests?

There certainly is a difference, as tungsten responds differently to the sliding rare earth magnet test. I've already asked about about this (above), but with no response.

 

[Aurora et luna]

I will be bringing two genuine 2 Rands to today's meet for comparison.
They both passed an XRF test and came through with flying colors when tested with the Fisch coin detector.
A positive third test with Boyscout's PM detector should be more than sufficient confirmation that the metal content is correct in the unlikely event they are jewelers copies.

 

[Miloman]

I have not performed the magnet test or the gravity test.

I am bringing originals as well as the fake to today's meeting. If you want to come, you will meet me in the flesh.

I would like to perform destructive tests but it is not mine to do so. I would photo and video this as I mentioned. This is the only way to 100% to be sure it's not gold.

Aurora is entitled to examine the coin and is anyone else. I have been given permission to show the coin. I think the owner should allow destructive tests.

Also no one on this board is anywhere near as qualified as those that have ALREADY examined the coin by a long long way. I do 99% of my business not on Stackers.

 

[anonmiss]

How about sending the XRF results'/readings to dealers via PM so we know what to look for when using the XRF to test coins.
That would be extremely helpful and much appreciated especially for those who are not experts in 'Rands and who rely on their machines.

 

[Miloman]

How about sending the XRF results'/readings to dealers via PM so we know what to look for when using the XRF to test coins.
That would be extremely helpful and much appreciated especially for those who are not experts in 'Rands and who rely on their machines.

How about you talk to other dealers if you are one.

Simple.

 

[anonmiss]

How about sending the XRF results'/readings to dealers via PM so we know what to look for when using the XRF to test coins.
That would be extremely helpful and much appreciated especially for those who are not experts in 'Rands and who rely on their machines.

How about you talk to other dealers if you are one.

Simple.

I thought I was asking another dealer for information?

Being based in Adelaide the amount of dealers here is limited. We are in regular contact with other dealers and coin experts however I acknowledge that the is a limit to the knowledge pool over here.
Sorry if I have offended you by asking that you share information that YOU started a thread about.

And after being on the forum for four years and announcing the opening of our business on the forum and posting a warning to others when I came across my first Tungsten filled 1 oz coin I thought the simple request for knowledge sharing could only help ensure that buyers and seller be they dealers or private collectors could trade with more confidence.

I see that my request for information in order to grow my knowledge and expertise was somehow offensive and was too much of a request.

I truly hope that one day I too may know it all and never have to ask any questions.

Until then I guess I will just accept my humble status as 'not really a dealer' as I confess I don't know everything yet,

 

[Caput Lupinum]

Bring it along to this Sunday's meet and lets test it on Boyscout's machine.
I will bring my fisch coin detector for 2 Rand. It can check for thickness and diameter, shape and weight.
Your fake might fail one of those checks.

So what was the verdict?

 

[Aurora et luna]

There are very minute differences between my coins and the one in question, so maybe another expert opinion is warranted.
To be fair, the coin passed the Fisch fake coin detector, as well as two different vintage Sovereign Scales.

 

[GoldenEye]

To be fair, the coin passed the Fisch fake coin detector,

So if it's passed this test it probably has a similar density to a real one, and is probably tungsten. The sliding magnet test might be the only other non-destructive test left to try?

 

[Aurora et luna]

To be fair, the coin passed the Fisch fake coin detector,

So if it's passed this test it probably has a similar density to a real one, and is probably tungsten. The sliding magnet test might be the only other non-destructive test left to try?

Or it could be a jeweler's copy fabricated from 22ct gold.

 

[screaming eagle]

IMO, there were considerable visible differences (under magnification) between the coin in question and one that is known to be a real coin. I'm no numismatic expert though, so I can't be sure the control coin was real or not either. The sovereign scales were out in force as was the Fisch - but no Precious Metals Verifier, which would add a final layer of certainty. Hence why I prefer bars - the old ultrasonic usually delivers the goods and saves one cutting items in half to see if they're real.

 

[screaming eagle]

We see differences in strike between various panda coins, could the differences be accounted for by a miss-strike or slightly different coin die?

Perhaps, but a coin wearing on the low points but not the high points? The finish wasn't consistent with numerous other gold coins that were there (under magnification) - it looked fuzzy/frosty. Enough to warrant further investigation. Whilst I don't think Miloman reacted well to people questioning him (they have every right to do so) on the thread, he's definitely got a point with this particular coin.

 

[anonmiss]

To be fair, the coin passed the Fisch fake coin detector,

So if it's passed this test it probably has a similar density to a real one, and is probably tungsten. The sliding magnet test might be the only other non-destructive test left to try?

If it was Tungsten that should have showed up on the XRF test, one would think.

 

[GoldenEye]

If it was Tungsten that should have showed up on the XRF test, one would think.

I've seen a tungsten Kruger with a thick layer of gold that a dealer's XRF initially passed.

 

[goldpelican]

If it was Tungsten that should have showed up on the XRF test, one would think.

I've seen a tungsten Kruger with a thick layer of gold that a dealer's XRF initially passed.

22k or 24k gold? Have heard of a Melb Keugerrand that was showing up as pure on the XRF.

 

[Miloman]

I really regret creating this thread to be honest and have really learn my lesson.

Guys just check the Chinese site... they are producing all kinds of fakes and there are also jewelers copies out there of all kinds of things.

I will only be sharing info with those that know me.

Sorry about that.

 

[GoldenEye]

If it was Tungsten that should have showed up on the XRF test, one would think.

I've seen a tungsten Kruger with a thick layer of gold that a dealer's XRF initially passed.

22k or 24k gold? Have heard of a Melb Keugerrand that was showing up as pure on the XRF.

The dealer got a reading of 24K gold and forgot it should have been 22K. However, the point is that it passed XRF due to the thick gold layer, and I'm trying to find out if the sliding magnet test will work where the XRF didn't? I need a tungsten Krugerrand or someone else to do the test on one?

 

[goldpelican]

I've seen a tungsten Kruger with a thick layer of gold that a dealer's XRF initially passed.

22k or 24k gold? Have heard of a Melb Keugerrand that was showing up as pure on the XRF.

The dealer got a reading of 24K gold and forgot it should have been 22K. However, the point is that it passed XRF due to the thick gold layer, and I'm trying to find out if the sliding magnet test will work where the XRF didn't? I need a tungsten Krugerrand or someone else to do the test on one?

Hence my question - sounds like the same incident I heard of. Bought on the basis of testing "pure" when they were supposed to be 22K.

 

[SpacePete]

I really regret creating this thread to be honest and have really learn my lesson.

I'm glad you created this thread. I'm learning a lot. I never realised it was so difficult to spot a fake sov. It looks like few people have the skill and experience to spot a sophisticated fake, even with access to an XRF machine.