Mike Maloney 'Debt Collapse' is live, full 90 minute presentation

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

Let's look at a world without fractional banking. Let us say that Joe borrows money from a bank to purchase equipment for his business. The equipment seller takes that money and deposits it into his account. Wait, the bank will not take money the because it cannot lend it out. And how will the bank know that those funds were originally borrowed funds?

It is/was the reckless lending and the banks taking fractional banking to extraordinarily dangerous levels that have caused much of the problems. Going on margin 10% is not that risky. Going on margin 98% is extremely risky. Anything can become unsafe when taken to an extreme. Milk is good for you, but too much milk has killed people. People should be careful what they wish for, because a world without fractional lending is going to be a very different one.

It's nice to see someone has got fractional lending and understands the problem.

If I lend $100 to my friend and then he lends $90 of that to another person we have just engaged in fractional lending. It happens all the time in society. The reason people think the banks are creating money is because they think the money in their account belongs to them. It doesn't. It's money that the bank OWES you. Which is why they are paying you interest for it. It is not money in and of itself. However most of society will happily take bank iou's for money rather than the money itself these days.

My understanding of fractional reserve banking is different to this, so perhaps someone can correct me if im wrong.

I was of the understanding that if $100 is deposited with the bank (under a 10% fractional reserve system), rather than the bank lending out $90 of the original $100, it actually 'creates' $900 out-of-thin-air which to loans out. It retains the original $100 which it stores as its 10% reserve against the newly created $900 ($100 being 10% of $1,000).

The 'crime' (in my opinion) is that the bank provides no consideration toward the loan contract that it enters into with the loan applicant. The bank creates the new money out of thin air (costing it nothing) however the loan applicant is now required to provide their time, effort and labour in order to create wealth that can be used to pay back the bank with interest.

Should the loan applicant default on the loan then the bank claims the items of REAL wealth (i.e. the home if it was a home loan)

Your understanding is perfectly correct my friend. The others think they understand it but all they understand is how the banking system would like them to understand how it all works.

 

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

And charging interest on money created out if thin air steals deposit money how exactly?

Money is stolen from all other people holding that currency though dilution. SAVVVY???

That is not what Maloney stated. He was talking to those with the deposits. I have already stated that generalized theft occurs through inflation. The fed reserve controls that.

"Banks fraudulently lend out money all the time that they have pulled out their arses and then have the cheek to charge people interest on that phantom money..."

They are limited by the deposits and capital base. So how exactly are they pulling it out of their arses? I am not defending the banks here. I was just opining that Maloney is very loose with the truth. Remember his claim that ASEs went to 4 x silver price when silver tanked. That is a fraudulent statement and I lost any respect I had for him after that.

See hbBear's explanation above ... he understands it 100%. You can too ...

 

[pmstacker]

Money is stolen from all other people holding that currency though dilution. Never Gonna Give You Up???

That is not what Maloney stated. He was talking to those with the deposits. I have already stated that generalized theft occurs through inflation. The fed reserve controls that.

"Banks fraudulently lend out money all the time that they have pulled out their arses and then have the cheek to charge people interest on that phantom money..."

They are limited by the deposits and capital base. So how exactly are they pulling it out of their arses? I am not defending the banks here. I was just opining that Maloney is very loose with the truth. Remember his claim that ASEs went to 4 x silver price when silver tanked. That is a fraudulent statement and I lost any respect I had for him after that.

See hbBear's explanation above ... he understands it 100%. You can too ...

LOL just reading this thread, so funny, your so high and mighty on your horse there yippe .... understanding the fractional reserve is easy, its basic, its no big secret or anything like that ... just cause you have looked and tried to understanding it before others have doesnt make you any smarter then them :lol: Some people need to argue and fight their point till they understand what they are thinking is wrong, just a learning process. I dont get why he need you to tell him to "GIVE UP"

I know people who know the banking fractional system, havn't bought a single ounce of gold or silver and pulled in 100k in the last week trading the markets When the real gold and silver trade comes round, they'll just buy the silver/gold trade, caring nothing about fundementals, and sell the gold and silver trade when its done. If it means buying physical and holding it till the shtf is over they'll just do that. Meanwhile if there is money to be made on the markets (as well as gold and silver) play the field, accumulate money so you can buy as much gold/silver later when the time is right

BTW i watch the Mike Maloney video and it was awesome i must say, articulated everything very well, made it easy for most people to understand first time round (as i bought a few friends who dont understand it to watch) and I like how he was initially an electrical engineer. Means he knows how to look at things analytically, mathematically and i think thats important when your trading. The only thing that kept ringing in my ear as he was talking was he *DOES* predict a deflation first. Now we all know that the last time we had deflation metals fell from grace.

I think he should have somewhat provided a caveat that says if a deflationary situation hits such as that experienced in 08 then expect a drop in silver/gold prices temporarily. Problem with leaving out that caveat is that if he does predict a deflation some people may load up the credit cards to buy the metals. When the deflationary dip comes around the people who bought on leverage could feel cheated, feel depressed and sell out at the bottom to pay credit card debt only to see the public bidding it up from bargin price so that it moves straight back up .... I think whats important is what his not saying in that video ...

Whats also interesting is that he says he doesn't watch the news, i also believe the news is full of BS to be frank but you can always infer that if you believe the news is stating BS, then to make money you can do the opposite (or along those lines). Its stil useful information, its just that the way they pitch it could be false but always something good to gain. Seeing how china is faring, seeing how russia is faring and seeing what the MASSES are doing on the news is important if you wanna trade, if the masses are flocking to silver for instance and our good friend Kochie is there stating how undervalued it is and how awesome an investment it is, then you could start SELLING to them :lol: See, useful right ....

I guess mikes way is one way to trade, were you purely look at fundamentals , ignore everything and just hold for a long period of time. Seems to have worked for him Wonder if mike trades stocks on the down low too tho

 

[grinners]

My understanding of fractional reserve banking is different to this, so perhaps someone can correct me if im wrong.

I was of the understanding that if $100 is deposited with the bank (under a 10% fractional reserve system), rather than the bank lending out $90 of the original $100, it actually 'creates' $900 out-of-thin-air which to loans out. It retains the original $100 which it stores as its 10% reserve against the newly created $900 ($100 being 10% of $1,000).

The 'crime' (in my opinion) is that the bank provides no consideration toward the loan contract that it enters into with the loan applicant. The bank creates the new money out of thin air (costing it nothing) however the loan applicant is now required to provide their time, effort and labour in order to create wealth that can be used to pay back the bank with interest.

Should the loan applicant default on the loan then the bank claims the items of REAL wealth (i.e. the home if it was a home loan)

Does this only work if the multiple banks conspire to make it work?

IE: If I deposit $100 in the bank, and someone takes a loan out for $1,000 and withdraws it all, where does the physical amount come from? Or (more commonly) someone deposits there loan into another banks reserve (after the sale of a home) where would the $1,000 that the other bank should recieve actually come from? Just numbers on the screen (debits and credits between banks)? If people were actually to request the money from the loan, it wouldn't work would it?

 

[Guest]

My understanding of fractional reserve banking is different to this, so perhaps someone can correct me if im wrong.

I was of the understanding that if $100 is deposited with the bank (under a 10% fractional reserve system), rather than the bank lending out $90 of the original $100, it actually 'creates' $900 out-of-thin-air which to loans out. It retains the original $100 which it stores as its 10% reserve against the newly created $900 ($100 being 10% of $1,000).

The 'crime' (in my opinion) is that the bank provides no consideration toward the loan contract that it enters into with the loan applicant. The bank creates the new money out of thin air (costing it nothing) however the loan applicant is now required to provide their time, effort and labour in order to create wealth that can be used to pay back the bank with interest.

Should the loan applicant default on the loan then the bank claims the items of REAL wealth (i.e. the home if it was a home loan)

Does this only work if the multiple banks conspire to make it work?

IE: If I deposit $100 in the bank, and someone takes a loan out for $1,000 and withdraws it all, where does the physical amount come from? Or (more commonly) someone deposits there loan into another banks reserve (after the sale of a home) where would the $1,000 that the other bank should recieve actually come from? Just numbers on the screen (debits and credits between banks)? If people were actually to request the money from the loan, it wouldn't work would it?

Thats the difference between Money and Currency the value of the Dollars are imaginary , The $900 does not really exist it is created by the banks with the initial deposit of the $100 which it does not own.

 

[ReturnToZero]

I believe you missed a videos posted here, that show people of Zimbabwe paying for food with gold. Now, I know that's only one fiat currency, try to imagine, when the same will happen to all of them in the same time!

Sure - people used gold for limited trading before the collapse - but you still couldn't pay your normal bills (power etc - not that they had much in the way of power) with gold. It was more the "cash" type transactions that you could negotiate with gold - same as at the end of the Vietnam war.

When the last Zim fiat currency collapsed the government didn't move to gold or silver - it went to SA currency - another fiat. When Zim previous currencies collapsed they didn't go to gold or silver - they reprinted new fiat. Same with every other fiat currency. I cannot think of any that have moved from fiat to PMs - although would be very happy to be corrected on this!

It is unlikely that all fiat currencies will collapse at the same time. Even if they do - new governments will quickly replace with a new type of fiat (ie world currency). It is unlikely that modern commerce could handle PMs as a currency and as for backing a currency with a PM 1:1 - the practicalities and supervision/regulation would be anarcharistic to say the least.

malachii

There is no chance that the world will move to PM as a currency. Governments won't be able to control it unless they confiscate all of it, which is highly unlikely. If the currency collapses, they'll just jump to a new one, just as any other governments have done in the past.

As malachii has pointed out, PM's would only ever be used for cash-based transactions and that's only if we descend in to total anarchy.

Hopefully the new currency will be pegged to something, and if my gold can buy me xx amount of that something, then I will obviously be in a good position. In the end, the value of your holdings isn't what it's worth at the spot price, it's what it's worth versus other commodities - that's what makes it keep its real value.

I would say that the currency will collapse the moment it loses its reserve status or the Chinese stop buying it, once countries decide to trade in Yuan (BHP/RIO have decided to settle some of their trades in Yuan already), the US Dollar is finished.

World currency will never happen either, the euro is a test for a world currency and that crapped itself in a decade. That would only work if all the economies of the world becomes one, and I don't see that happening until we are part of a galactic empire.

Cheers

 

[Go Silver]

Great presentation....Mike Maloney is one of the best!

 

[silversurfer2010]

Thanks guys glad to see it igniting some debate!

Dan

 

[euphoria]

I believe you missed a videos posted here, that show people of Zimbabwe paying for food with gold. Now, I know that's only one fiat currency, try to imagine, when the same will happen to all of them in the same time!

Sure - people used gold for limited trading before the collapse - but you still couldn't pay your normal bills (power etc - not that they had much in the way of power) with gold. It was more the "cash" type transactions that you could negotiate with gold - same as at the end of the Vietnam war.

When the last Zim fiat currency collapsed the government didn't move to gold or silver - it went to SA currency - another fiat. When Zim previous currencies collapsed they didn't go to gold or silver - they reprinted new fiat. Same with every other fiat currency. I cannot think of any that have moved from fiat to PMs - although would be very happy to be corrected on this!

It is unlikely that all fiat currencies will collapse at the same time. Even if they do - new governments will quickly replace with a new type of fiat (ie world currency). It is unlikely that modern commerce could handle PMs as a currency and as for backing a currency with a PM 1:1 - the practicalities and supervision/regulation would be anarcharistic to say the least.

malachii

There is no chance that the world will move to PM as a currency. Governments won't be able to control it unless they confiscate all of it, which is highly unlikely. If the currency collapses, they'll just jump to a new one, just as any other governments have done in the past.

As malachii has pointed out, PM's would only ever be used for cash-based transactions and that's only if we descend in to total anarchy.

Hopefully the new currency will be pegged to something, and if my gold can buy me xx amount of that something, then I will obviously be in a good position. In the end, the value of your holdings isn't what it's worth at the spot price, it's what it's worth versus other commodities - that's what makes it keep its real value.

I would say that the currency will collapse the moment it loses its reserve status or the Chinese stop buying it, once countries decide to trade in Yuan (BHP/RIO have decided to settle some of their trades in Yuan already), the US Dollar is finished.

World currency will never happen either, the euro is a test for a world currency and that crapped itself in a decade. That would only work if all the economies of the world becomes one, and I don't see that happening until we are part of a galactic empire.

Cheers

I respectfully disagree here. I believe there is a strong chance. Governments can fight and control the markets for a time, but not indefinitely. Market forces are simply too strong. After seeing what is happening to the current fiat system, I doubt the public or businesses will 'buy' a new paper money unless it is genuinely backed by something that holds real value. Gold is the obvious choice here due to history and its high stock to flow ratio. Rice for example, could never back a currency, way too much volatility with seasonality. All gold mining could stop tomorrow for a year and not have a drastic impact on the amount of gold available. Things like eftpos and digital transactions will not disappear when the fiat system goes. The key thing I think for a new 'gold standard' will be redeemability.

 

[ReturnToZero]

Sure - people used gold for limited trading before the collapse - but you still couldn't pay your normal bills (power etc - not that they had much in the way of power) with gold. It was more the "cash" type transactions that you could negotiate with gold - same as at the end of the Vietnam war.

When the last Zim fiat currency collapsed the government didn't move to gold or silver - it went to SA currency - another fiat. When Zim previous currencies collapsed they didn't go to gold or silver - they reprinted new fiat. Same with every other fiat currency. I cannot think of any that have moved from fiat to PMs - although would be very happy to be corrected on this!

It is unlikely that all fiat currencies will collapse at the same time. Even if they do - new governments will quickly replace with a new type of fiat (ie world currency). It is unlikely that modern commerce could handle PMs as a currency and as for backing a currency with a PM 1:1 - the practicalities and supervision/regulation would be anarcharistic to say the least.

malachii

There is no chance that the world will move to PM as a currency. Governments won't be able to control it unless they confiscate all of it, which is highly unlikely. If the currency collapses, they'll just jump to a new one, just as any other governments have done in the past.

As malachii has pointed out, PM's would only ever be used for cash-based transactions and that's only if we descend in to total anarchy.

Hopefully the new currency will be pegged to something, and if my gold can buy me xx amount of that something, then I will obviously be in a good position. In the end, the value of your holdings isn't what it's worth at the spot price, it's what it's worth versus other commodities - that's what makes it keep its real value.

I would say that the currency will collapse the moment it loses its reserve status or the Chinese stop buying it, once countries decide to trade in Yuan (BHP/RIO have decided to settle some of their trades in Yuan already), the US Dollar is finished.

World currency will never happen either, the euro is a test for a world currency and that crapped itself in a decade. That would only work if all the economies of the world becomes one, and I don't see that happening until we are part of a galactic empire.

Cheers

I respectfully disagree here. I believe there is a strong chance. Governments can fight and control the markets for a time, but not indefinitely. Market forces are simply too strong. After seeing what is happening to the current fiat system, I doubt the public or businesses will 'buy' a new paper money unless it is genuinely backed by something that holds real value. Gold is the obvious choice here due to history and its high stock to flow ratio. Rice for example, could never back a currency, way too much volatility with seasonality. All gold mining could stop tomorrow for a year and not have a drastic impact on the amount of gold available. Things like eftpos and digital transactions will not disappear when the fiat system goes. The key thing I think for a new 'gold standard' will be redeemability.

I respectfully agree - hence why I said that I hope the new currency will be backed by something (gold, loaves of bread.. sexual favors??), when I refer to it moving to PM, I meant something like paying your water bills with some gold dust.

The problem is that only a tiny minority, such as the people on this forum, really know whats happening with the fiat money. If they bring in a new currency, everyone will be forced to exchange their current useless dollars (wouldn't you?) for the new one or face wiping out your savings (or whats left of it...). It would be financial suicide to not accept the new currency unless the majority of your holdings is in a physical asset.

The pegging to gold I don't see happening unless there is a confiscation - with the current state of the dollar, they can pretty much stick their finger up at anyone right now and say too bad, your IOU's are useless now. However, if they inflate their debts to zero, switch to a new dollar then peg it to gold, that just means they just transferred all their wealth and market power to individuals like you and me and countries around the world who hold gold. Imagine if you will, in a few years time China has accumulated twice as much gold than the US and then US pegs - US just sold America to China.

This is not to mention the government having to give up their limitless printing powers - the US had a good 40 years worth of trading air for productivity with countries, if they can do it again - I bet you you they will do it again.

Hell, if Fort Knox is empty, Chavez will probably swoop in and buy California. You can't back a currency with something you don't control as a majority or else you will just transfer your wealth to everyone else.

Another thing is if there is a peg, the face value of gold will be stupidly high, there is one hell of a lot more physical assets and productivity than 40 years ago. I don't believe the amount of gold in the world has grown in sync with the worlds productivity - unless the ratio of gold and productivity stays the same, the real worth of gold will always rise.

 

[silversurfer2010]

The good news is that the likelihood of a 'one world currency' was one of the first questions asked of Mike at the Q&A breakout session after his talk. I think it will be sent out in the goldsilver.com newsletter on Tuesday.

 

[nicwinner]

really nice video,cheers

 

[paintballtao]

after watching mike's video.
so i was walking in qvb that day. and i saw the newly renovated citibank - with 5 nice big iMacs ONLY - this just shows that when we 'save' in banks, it just turned into numbers!! ><

 

[Lovey80]

I respectfully agree - hence why I said that I hope the new currency will be backed by something (gold, loaves of bread.. sexual favors??), when I refer to it moving to PM, I meant something like paying your water bills with some gold dust.

The problem is that only a tiny minority, such as the people on this forum, really know whats happening with the fiat money. If they bring in a new currency, everyone will be forced to exchange their current useless dollars (wouldn't you?) for the new one or face wiping out your savings (or whats left of it...). It would be financial suicide to not accept the new currency unless the majority of your holdings is in a physical asset.

The pegging to gold I don't see happening unless there is a confiscation - with the current state of the dollar, they can pretty much stick their finger up at anyone right now and say too bad, your IOU's are useless now. However, if they inflate their debts to zero, switch to a new dollar then peg it to gold, that just means they just transferred all their wealth and market power to individuals like you and me and countries around the world who hold gold. Imagine if you will, in a few years time China has accumulated twice as much gold than the US and then US pegs - US just sold America to China.

This is not to mention the government having to give up their limitless printing powers - the US had a good 40 years worth of trading air for productivity with countries, if they can do it again - I bet you you they will do it again.

Hell, if Fort Knox is empty, Chavez will probably swoop in and buy California. You can't back a currency with something you don't control as a majority or else you will just transfer your wealth to everyone else.

Another thing is if there is a peg, the face value of gold will be stupidly high, there is one hell of a lot more physical assets and productivity than 40 years ago. I don't believe the amount of gold in the world has grown in sync with the worlds productivity - unless the ratio of gold and productivity stays the same, the real worth of gold will always rise.

A confiscation is possible. But really not necessary IMO. If they inflate their debts to zero then switch to a new dollar peg with gold (after the hyper inflation has made the USD worthless) and print a new currency that runs inline with the amount of gold they hold (lets assume 8000ton) the new dollar will be a perfect currency. It wont matter what country holds what ever gold and it certainly wont sell America to China. Quite the opposite in fact. China will be left hold the bag of trillions (in todays value) of worthless paper and America will have new paper that has some backing. They don't even have to make it redeemable. Remember at this point the whole monetary world is a complete basket case. All they have to do is end fractional reserve banking and make it law that unless another ounce of gold hits the vault, they can't print another dollar over the amount printed to represent the 8000t worth of gold the allegedly own. Have a direct ratio swap for current USD to how many there is in circulation right now compared to the amount of "Gold backed" dollars they freshly printed and Bang you have a currency that represents gold but is not redeemable.

Hey even Australia with ridiculously low gold stocks to currency in circulation could pull it off without even having to print a new currency. If they simply didn't allow the RBA to print unless they received gold in return the inflation that is causing all of our troubles goes away.

We are also discounting what Mike Maloney speaks of in history where the value of gold completely accounts for all the fiat in circulation. If there is an exploding in the price of Gold and Silver that accounts for all of this then it is very easy to just peg it.

 

[alor]

GOLD on the triple wak wak wak
Silver 2x triple fly fly fly fly fly fly = launching

please refer to my avatar!

 

[ReturnToZero]

I respectfully agree - hence why I said that I hope the new currency will be backed by something (gold, loaves of bread.. sexual favors??), when I refer to it moving to PM, I meant something like paying your water bills with some gold dust.

The problem is that only a tiny minority, such as the people on this forum, really know whats happening with the fiat money. If they bring in a new currency, everyone will be forced to exchange their current useless dollars (wouldn't you?) for the new one or face wiping out your savings (or whats left of it...). It would be financial suicide to not accept the new currency unless the majority of your holdings is in a physical asset.

The pegging to gold I don't see happening unless there is a confiscation - with the current state of the dollar, they can pretty much stick their finger up at anyone right now and say too bad, your IOU's are useless now. However, if they inflate their debts to zero, switch to a new dollar then peg it to gold, that just means they just transferred all their wealth and market power to individuals like you and me and countries around the world who hold gold. Imagine if you will, in a few years time China has accumulated twice as much gold than the US and then US pegs - US just sold America to China.

This is not to mention the government having to give up their limitless printing powers - the US had a good 40 years worth of trading air for productivity with countries, if they can do it again - I bet you you they will do it again.

Hell, if Fort Knox is empty, Chavez will probably swoop in and buy California. You can't back a currency with something you don't control as a majority or else you will just transfer your wealth to everyone else.

Another thing is if there is a peg, the face value of gold will be stupidly high, there is one hell of a lot more physical assets and productivity than 40 years ago. I don't believe the amount of gold in the world has grown in sync with the worlds productivity - unless the ratio of gold and productivity stays the same, the real worth of gold will always rise.

A confiscation is possible. But really not necessary IMO. If they inflate their debts to zero then switch to a new dollar peg with gold (after the hyper inflation has made the USD worthless) and print a new currency that runs inline with the amount of gold they hold (lets assume 8000ton) the new dollar will be a perfect currency. It wont matter what country holds what ever gold and it certainly wont sell America to China. Quite the opposite in fact. China will be left hold the bag of trillions (in todays value) of worthless paper and America will have new paper that has some backing. They don't even have to make it redeemable. Remember at this point the whole monetary world is a complete basket case. All they have to do is end fractional reserve banking and make it law that unless another ounce of gold hits the vault, they can't print another dollar over the amount printed to represent the 8000t worth of gold the allegedly own. Have a direct ratio swap for current USD to how many there is in circulation right now compared to the amount of "Gold backed" dollars they freshly printed and Bang you have a currency that represents gold but is not redeemable.

Hey even Australia with ridiculously low gold stocks to currency in circulation could pull it off without even having to print a new currency. If they simply didn't allow the RBA to print unless they received gold in return the inflation that is causing all of our troubles goes away.

We are also discounting what Mike Maloney speaks of in history where the value of gold completely accounts for all the fiat in circulation. If there is an exploding in the price of Gold and Silver that accounts for all of this then it is very easy to just peg it.

Good Points. Just to clarify though, gold in the vault still equals the value of gold not in the vault right? So on a scaled back example, if $1,000 is backed by 1 ounce, in theory, I can take 50 ounces from my stash and go buy a new car as I can exchange my 50 ounces of gold for $50,000 worth of gold backed dollars with a gold dealer. I guess this would only work if that exchange is made illegal, at least in a large scale?

Otherwise if the entire US economy is backed by 8000 tons of gold, and China has 5000 tons, they can theoretically change their gold for dollars and buy one hell of a lot of stuff in the US.

I need to read more on the gold standard, this stuff is giving me a head spin lol.

 

[goldpelican]

I need to read more on the gold standard, this stuff is giving me a head spin lol.

See if you can source this book from somewhere: http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-5061-gold-the-once-and-future-money.html

 

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

Good Points. Just to clarify though, gold in the vault still equals the value of gold not in the vault right? So on a scaled back example, if $1,000 is backed by 1 ounce, in theory, I can take 50 ounces from my stash and go buy a new car as I can exchange my 50 ounces of gold for $50,000 worth of gold backed dollars with a gold dealer. I guess this would only work if that exchange is made illegal, at least in a large scale?

Otherwise if the entire US economy is backed by 8000 tons of gold, and China has 5000 tons, they can theoretically change their gold for dollars and buy one hell of a lot of stuff in the US.

I need to read more on the gold standard, this stuff is giving me a head spin lol.

The Chinese already can buy one hell of a lot of stuff in the US, and they already have...

 

[systematic]

making the USA deliver on their paper promises is a whole different ball game ....

 

[ReturnToZero]

I need to read more on the gold standard, this stuff is giving me a head spin lol.

See if you can source this book from somewhere: http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-5061-gold-the-once-and-future-money.html

Cheers, can never read too much that's for sure.