MEDAL v. COIN-GOV BACKED AS FIAT MONEY.MEDAL EVERYONE CAN DO AT HOME

[andrewlee10]

yrh0413MemberFrom: SingaporeRegistered: 2013-05-29Last Visit: TodayPosts: 443Trades : + 1 -Email PM

Re: Legends of Asgard: Max Relief the star of a beautiful new Odin coin

Since we are in the topic of Chinese medals, can someone answer me on this:

With the right tools and materials (carving pens, drills, sandpaper to name a few), anyone can create "medals" at home and sell them, at a very limited mintage (5-10?). How does the Chinese government control these medal "makers"?

Some may say these are not from "official mints", but other than being qualified to be graded by NGC what else is missing for medals not minted from official Chinese mint?



I have hard time to write the topic to attract comments and contributions of this topic. Finally, I choose "MEDAL v. COIN-GOV BACKED AS FIAT MONEY.MEDAL EVERYONE CAN DO AT HOME".

The fiat money (coin) and non fiat money (medal) have been discussed in many forums and up for many debate.

Hope the members here can contribute to this topics and reply to our member yrh0413.

 

[andrewlee10]

To start up, here the definition of fiat and non fiat money from Wikipedia

Fiat money is currency which derives its value from government regulation or law. The term derives from the Latin fiat ("let it be done", "it shall be").[1] It differs from commodity money and representative money. Commodity money is created from a good, often a precious metal such as gold or silver, which has uses other than as a medium of exchange (such a good is called a commodity), while representative money simply represents a claim on a such a good.[2][3][4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

What the value of "fiat coins" in the eye of numic collectors?

Is that non-fiat medal which mints by official mints who also produce the fiat coins BUT WITHOUT face value and legal tender on it is no value except as the precious medal value in eye of numic collector? As described above by yrh0413 which every one can make a ultra low mintage medal out from your home with right tools and sell it except some will argue it is not recognise by grading companies like PCGS, NGC and so on.

 

[yrh0413]

Don't need to get into debate of coins vs medals/coasters/souvenirs, that is straightforward and need no further debate

After I posted my question I got my answers in an earlier discussion:
http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-62768-official-vs-unofficial-mints.html


Pity those non-official mint don't get much attention, they do have some great medals e.g. New Century Medal

 

[andrewlee10]

Don't need to get into debate of coins vs medals/coasters/souvenirs, that is straightforward and need no further debate

After I posted my question I got my answers in an earlier discussion:
http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-62768-official-vs-unofficial-mints.html


Pity those non-official mint don't get much attention, they do have some great medals e.g. New Century Medal

http://www.shncm.com/_c_QCXM49X4KMf...QTvEFTxcr9Mv3CGlaookl5qm6C04jE9p1MYPzAg1s.jpg

some of Non-official mints medal also graded by NGC and PCGS.

I am very confusing that your question is coin vs. medal and NOT non official vs. official medal. This is totally diff topic.

 

[yrh0413]

Well if non-official mint medals get certified by NGC/PCGS then that answers my question entirely.

I was under the impression that NGC/PCGS only certifies medals from official mint, thus I thought this is the main reason why collectors do not bother with medals from other mints.

 

[Gatito Bandito]

"With the right tools and materials (carving pens, drills, sandpaper to name a few), anyone can create "medals" at home and sell them, at a very limited mintage (5-10?). How does the Chinese government control these medal "makers"?

Some may say these are not from "official mints", but other than being qualified to be graded by NGC what else is missing for medals not minted from official Chinese mint?"


As for grading/slabbing, here's what NGC has to say..


Important Note: Chinese Medals Certified by NGC

NGC will only grade and encapsulate modern Chinese medals that have been made at one of the four official Mints of China (Nanjing, Shanghai, Shenyang, and Shenzhen Guobao). While NGC maintains a large record of official Chinese medals, we cannot guarantee that we can attribute all medals sent to us.

In order for NGC to attribute and grade any official Chinese Medal (or Medallion), we request that any medal submitted to us have the appropriate verification documentation (or certificate of authenticity issued by the People's Bank of China [China Mint Company]). Verification documentation should include the date of the medal (or year struck/issued), diameter and metal content, mint it was struck at, and the mintage. Failure to include this information could result in the medal being returned un-graded with a note signifying the coin to be Non Eligible.
http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDarticle=2550


Though from what I understand, they will make exceptions in certain cases when it comes to certain medals from certain non-official mints. What determines what gets slabbed, and what gets rejected? I have no idea.


As for creating medals like these, yourself?

I don't know about you, but I certainly don't have a minting press in my garage.. :lol:


Which means you're going to need access to somebody else's equipment & expertise. And for that access, you're going to need money up-front -- if you can even get in the door, that is.

People can and do have coins & rounds commissioned. Though from the sounds of it, I'm not so sure it's worth all the headaches.


Of course, even if you successfully get through those hurdles, you still have to face other challenges..

You're a small-time operator -- you're not the US Mint or the Perth Mint. How are you going to get the word out? Who is going to buy your product? And why are they going to trust you that they're not only going to get their order in a timely manner (and probably pay a pretty penny to do so) -- but also that it's going to be good minting quality, and that the weight & composition are truly what you say it is?


It's not easy. To make an analogy, There are quite a few silversmiths who do their own hand-poured bars, especially in the US. You've probably never heard of most of them, even though they've probably been doing it for years.

Even if it's the coolest poured bar, and some people do find out about them for the 1st time, here are some real-life concerns I've overheard in the past:

- How can I trust that it's actually 1 troy-oz of .999 Ag?
- Why is there such a premium?
- What's the re-sale value? Nobody is ever going to want to buy this from me if I ever decide to sell..
- Etc., etc.

I reckon the same things would be going through somebody's mind when they first learn of a medal from a small & unknown medal-maker, as well.


As for my Chinese medals -- why are they *all* from 3 out of the 4 official mints that NGC stated above?

First, for the simple fact that all my medals are slabbed.

Second, for the simple fact that for some of these non-official mints, either I don't like the medal (just not my particular taste), or they look cheap & poorly-minted.

Finally, because I don't even know where else to look to find some really cool ones! And even if I did, and it wasn't too expensive, I'd still have to wonder if NGC would even grade it or not.


Hope that answers your questions, at least in one way..

 

[yrh0413]

Thanks for the reply Gatito Bandito.

My definition of creating medals is more on melting a few ounces of silver blanks into a lump of silver then slowly carve out the designs and motives. Not by dies or mint press but purely handmade with carving tools etc. Probably gonna take months to complete a medal, and mintage might not be more than 3.

With enough effort probably one can come out with medal as detailed and intricate as the Germain Soup Tureen (it was auctioned for 10 million in 1996)

 

[mmissinglink]

Well if non-official mint medals get certified by NGC/PCGS then that answers my question entirely.

I was under the impression that NGC/PCGS only certifies medals from official mint, thus I thought this is the main reason why collectors do not bother with medals from other mints.

This is what Andrew had written prior to your message:


" some of Non-official mints medal also graded by NGC and PCGS."


For me, whether or not a medal is currently accepted by a TPG (like NGC) for grading is not important. If I really like the medal, and the price is good, I will get it. Like this beautiful medal:

If you want to make your own medals that look decent, I think you'd have a much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much easier time of getting 3 of the same medal if you made cast medals rather than carve solid pieces of silver.



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