Lunar Pricing PM vs Dealer

F

foodgem

Member
Hi All,

New guy here. Just trying to figure out pricing on the 1 oz lunars.

When PM release them do they only sell them with the box, COA etc. - that's why they cost $99 per coin?

Do PM care about spot when they sell?

Dealers buy them by the roll/case and resell just a coin in a plastic case - that's why the Goats are like spot +$10

Do dealers bother with the boxed/COA stuff? Is there much value in having them or is it just for pretties if you want to display/gift them?

Is there any practical difference between the coins i.e. are the PM ones superduper sealed in carbonite or something?

Just trying to wrap my head around the lunar setup.

Thanks for the help.
 
the boxed / COA stuff are not the normal bullion rounds. They are usually proof, high relief, gilded, or some other "value added" version. You can buy the bullion version from Perth Mint also through the bullion site.
 
PM does care about spot, but for these collectors coins spot is less of a concern as the initial sales price is already way above spot.

Nowadays at spot silver $18-$20 these numismatic silver coins tend to be released at $80-120 range. Last time when spot was much lower new releases were below $60...
 
I think that Perthmint has two very distinct lives of products. The collector (numismatic) range sold through the http://www.perthmint.com.au/ site and the bullion investor's range sold through https://www.perthmintbullion.com/

Seems fairly clear until you look at the products. In the last decade or so PM have been selling a number of bullion rounds and bullion coins (with dates and legal tender values) that are very collectable. This is an effort to increase the premium on their bullion products and has been very successful. This is also a gateway product to entice people to become collectors and start to buy their high premium numismatic products.

The lunar range as a bullion product has been so successful that bullion vendors and mints across the planet have copied the idea. For example NTR have lunar 10 bars and lunar coins in their bullion range.

This is my impression anyway. PM seems to lead the way with a lot of their products and initiatives.
 
Ah, the Perth Mint Bullion site is helping me make sense of it.

So the Perth mint proper site sells nothing but proof copies. These have little or nothing to do with the value of the bullion coins. It looks to me like they're exactly the same, do they come out of the same equipment? Are the bullion coins "seconds" or just unlimited or what?

So basically the bullion coins are nothing more than a round with a face value and some prettiness from a reputable mint that commands a premium?
 
You must be able to discern between a "proof" coin and a "poof" coin.

One has investment value while the other makes your money go "poof" ;)

These days there are more poof coins than proof coins.
 
Bullion coins are never individually boxed and they are manufactured to different standards (and sometimes on different equipment) than collector (proof) coins...though not all collector coins look like a typical mirror proof coin. For example the US Mint's America The Beautiful 5 oz silver collector coin is not mirror shiny at all. It has an eggshell-like finish ("vapor blasted"). The size and design are the same as the bullion coin but the manufacturing process is different and the post strike quality control for the collector version is superior to the bullion's handling based on the fact that the bullion coins show far more evidence of coin surfaces coming into direct and not subtle contact with one another. The bullion coins are known for having lots of scuffs, scratches, dings, and dents.




.



.
 
So the dragons selling for $40-$50 even if they are in capsules are just bullion coins? Based on the spot price people would have paid a little more than the current lunars and probably don't want to sell them for less. Combined with some rarity and a desirable picture makes them cost more than a goat which anyone can buy in unlimited numbers until they stop making them.

Very confusing as I thought rounds were just for stacking based on spot but now it seems Kooks, Koalas and Lunars even in bullion form are "collectable".

So are there 1oz coins that aren't collectable that can be treated as lumps of silver? or should I just look at 1oz/5oz/10oz bars?
 
Some folk collect rounds, some appreciate some don't.

Would you prefer to buy a silver coin that you can sell one-day without hassles when it comes to selling?

As more and more fake replicas enter the market there's going to be dealers and folk who really don't want any hassles what so ever.

There's a never ending limit of privately minted silver rounds winch have wonderful designs but...what future will they hold? Some may do well, some will be forgotten but one thing is for sure...when it comes time to sell your silver, you won't want the hassel of the buyer having to test each round etc.

The good thing about buying government coins from bullion dealers or indeed the Perth Mint, is the knowledge that dealers recognise the Kookaburra, Koala and Lunar coins, as well as other common bullion coins such as maples etc etc.

Some folk say that a lump of silver is a lump of silver, I say BS to that.

Buy a coin or bar that is recognised world wide so that you can sell the item in Australia, Russia, Germany, USA, Canada, Japan, China etc.

Occasionally, new stacker's want to buy all kinds of coins, rounds and gimmicky items and...they end up with a pile of crap that they wish they had not purchased.

Sure, its fun to stack bits and pieces but it's also good to ask yourself why you are stacking? For a hobby, investment, like shiny silver, want to be part of the forum, don't know or maybe as part of a long term investment for you and a bit of diversification in your portfolio.

My best advice to any new stacker, young or old is to...........

Keep it simple at first.

If you live in Australia, buy what sells in Australia.

Buy common coins like Lunars, Kooks, Koala's, 10oz and Kilo Perth bars.

After a few years, you'll know what you like to stack; when that happens you'll have no problems selling your basic stack to buy whatever suits your fancy.

No one will tell you exactly what to buy because that is entirely up-to-you.

Don't forget to use the Search function of the forum and also visit the mintage figures pages on Perth's official site; their Blog is pretty good too.

Blog
http://www.perthmintbullion.com/Blog/au/Blog.aspx

Mintage figures - Declared and Sales To Date (Sales to date is not up-to-date)
http://www.perthmint.com.au/investment-bullion-bars-and-coins-mintages.aspx

Best of luck with what ever you decide. :)
 
So far I've picked up a 10oz PM bar (for me) and a 1oz Snake and 1oz Horse (for my sons - Mar 2013/Jan 2015).

I was just finding the Lunars confusing since they seem to command such a high premium for a round. People selling Bullion rounds in capsules for even bigger premiums was further doing my head in.

I think I've got the idea of the coin side of things now. Proof (collectable) vs Bullion (stackable) vs Semi Collectable Bullion (bit of both).

Cheers all.

Very educational.
 
Holdfast said:
Some folk collect rounds, some appreciate some don't.

Would you prefer to buy a silver coin that you can sell one-day without hassles when it comes to selling?

As more and more fake replicas enter the market there's going to be dealers and folk who really don't want any hassles what so ever.

There's a never ending limit of privately minted silver rounds winch have wonderful designs but...what future will they hold? Some may do well, some will be forgotten but one thing is for sure...when it comes time to sell your silver, you won't want the hassel of the buyer having to test each round etc.

The good thing about buying government coins from bullion dealers or indeed the Perth Mint, is the knowledge that dealers recognise the Kookaburra, Koala and Lunar coins, as well as other common bullion coins such as maples etc etc.

Some folk say that a lump of silver is a lump of silver, I say BS to that.

Buy a coin or bar that is recognised world wide so that you can sell the item in Australia, Russia, Germany, USA, Canada, Japan, China etc.

Occasionally, new stacker's want to buy all kinds of coins, rounds and gimmicky items and...they end up with a pile of crap that they wish they had not purchased.

Sure, its fun to stack bits and pieces but it's also good to ask yourself why you are stacking? For a hobby, investment, like shiny silver, want to be part of the forum, don't know or maybe as part of a long term investment for you and a bit of diversification in your portfolio.

My best advice to any new stacker, young or old is to...........

Keep it simple at first.

If you live in Australia, buy what sells in Australia.

Buy common coins like Lunars, Kooks, Koala's, 10oz and Kilo Perth bars.

After a few years, you'll know what you like to stack; when that happens you'll have no problems selling your basic stack to buy whatever suits your fancy.

No one will tell you exactly what to buy because that is entirely up-to-you.

Don't forget to use the Search function of the forum and also visit the mintage figures pages on Perth's official site; their Blog is pretty good too.

Blog
http://www.perthmintbullion.com/Blog/au/Blog.aspx

Mintage figures - Declared and Sales To Date (Sales to date is not up-to-date)
http://www.perthmint.com.au/investment-bullion-bars-and-coins-mintages.aspx

Best of luck with what ever you decide. :)
Click to expand...

Holdfast, I couldn't agree more with your advice. Hence why I only buy the kooks, lunars and pandas...and sold most everything else that doesn't fit under these...I have a lot of the older Brittanias too. Love them. Of course quite a few of the PM collectibles...and just recently added some Canadian superman coins to the list...but your point about a hunk of metal is spot on...certainly for the longer-term. I think a lot of rounds that are popular today will fizzle out to spot 20 years down the road...whereas the PM and other recognizable coins will increase in value. IMHO.
 
foodgem said:
So far I've picked up a 10oz PM bar (for me) and a 1oz Snake and 1oz Horse (for my sons - Mar 2013/Jan 2015).

I was just finding the Lunars confusing since they seem to command such a high premium for a round. People selling Bullion rounds in capsules for even bigger premiums was further doing my head in.

I think I've got the idea of the coin side of things now. Proof (collectable) vs Bullion (stackable) vs Semi Collectable Bullion (bit of both).

Cheers all.

Very educational.
Click to expand...

Jan 2015 would be the 2015 Goat, not the 2014 Horse.
 
foodgem said:
Hi All,

New guy here. Just trying to figure out pricing on the 1 oz lunars.

When PM release them do they only sell them with the box, COA etc. - that's why they cost $99 per coin?

Do PM care about spot when they sell?

Dealers buy them by the roll/case and resell just a coin in a plastic case - that's why the Goats are like spot +$10

Do dealers bother with the boxed/COA stuff? Is there much value in having them or is it just for pretties if you want to display/gift them?

Is there any practical difference between the coins i.e. are the PM ones superduper sealed in carbonite or something?

Just trying to wrap my head around the lunar setup.

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

As a noobie like myself (very new) you have to factor a bit of excitement/pleasure in buying silver that perhaps many experienced stackers have well past caring about.

Pretty Bullion coins are just as collectable as proof coins only some proof coin collectors dont think so but the premium price shows a different story! Perth mint Luna's Koalas Kooks and even Crocs are selling like wild fire to new buyers who are not necessarily contemplating coin collections but like to believe its a bit viable with bullion coins (which it is)

If you want to buy to make a quick profit then buy tubes and tubes of lunars as soon as they are released and hope the silver price doesn't drop low enough for a newbee buyer to grab a realistic price for a wanted item from an over zealous Mum & Dad tube bullion buyer .

Fly cheap in economy or travel first class until you know where you are heading :) If you buy coins without the nice plastic case they are $1.95 a dozen with free postage from China.

I only have a few Bullion coins so far but the Perth Mint general issue are superb in my opinion and the American eagles are really very nice even though they are unlimited to a point:)

There is a "sticky" thread that explains Proof coins and Bullion coins and how they are produced with a list of collectable/sellable "might get in your small change" coins. I grabbed out of a post from member "House" and it was very informative and shed a lot of light on coins in general to the un knowing but we have a lot to learn and mistakes are part of the fun that others profit from. :)
 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIiDP1049C4[/youtube]


Great designers, great Aussie coins. :)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1U5EOf90wg[/youtube]
 
monopolize said:
Jan 2015 is still year of the horse in the Chinese calendar. New year is Feb 19th I think.
Click to expand...

Do you want to be technically correct or go with what a normal person thinks.? It is easier to go with the flow. A child isn't likely to understand the fiscal year distinction.
 
dccpa said:
monopolize said:
Jan 2015 is still year of the horse in the Chinese calendar. New year is Feb 19th I think.
Click to expand...

Do you want to be technically correct or go with what a normal person thinks.? It is easier to go with the flow. A child isn't likely to understand the fiscal year distinction.
Click to expand...

Mate I'm not trying to be technically correct. Just wanted to point out that if the OP happens to be Chinese then they use the Chinese calendar to determine the zodiac sign. So your 'normal person' will depend on whether they're Chinese or a westerner.
 
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