Lots of Fake Gold Shows up in HongKong

C

chimpanchu

New Member
http://www.gata.org/node/9369

This is alarming indeed.

The level of sophistication is these fake bars are something new. These fake bars could pass all basic tests only more sophisticated tests high temperatures and chemicals test can reveal the true nature of these fakes.

HONG KONG -- Hong Kong goldsmiths have been sold hundreds of ounces of fake gold this year in one of the most sophisticated scams to hit the Chinese territory's gold market in decades.

Industry executives say the scam -- while not massive and hitting only the retail sector -- uncloaks the increasingly elaborate gold swindles perpetrated by criminals in Asia as bullion prices soar to record highs of $1,400 a troy ounce.

In one case, executives discovered a pure gold coating that masked a complex alloy with similar properties to gold. The fake gold included a significant amount of bullion -- about 51 per cent of the total -- alloyed with seven other metals: osmium, iridium, ruthenium, copper, nickel, iron, and rhodium.

In the past, counterfeit gold in Hong Kong and the rest of Asia was either rough and easy to detect, even to the naked eye, or involved gold-plated tungsten, a metal with a similar density to gold, but which traders and jewellers can easily identify.
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You gotta hand it to the Chinese, when it comes to selling dodgy items and faking stuff no body beat the Chinese.

PS: Btw the metal alloy made for the fake gold, uses alot of Rare Earth Elements which is bullish to REE.
 
Hope this doesn't grow into coins. Will stop ebay bids dead in their tracks.

In most cases, the fakes passed basic scrutiny, only to be revealed later by more sophisticated tests involving high temperatures and chemicals.

Industry executives stressed that the scam targeted the street-level sale of scrap gold to jewellers. Mr Cheung said none of the fake gold had infiltrated the much more bigger market for gold bars, which as is protected by more rigorous controls.
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The Chinese Govt. is equally adept at spruking phoney anti-counterfeit rhetoric. I do worry about fake coins, the Chinese have perfected the correct mass using advanced metallurgical techniques for making fake silver coins. Perfect detail, weight, dimensionally correct & even passing the fabled ping test. They are faking so many coins now especially the Pandas & American collectibles. They can afford to invest heavily in counterfeiting as they know they won't get caught or penalised. Every exported counterfeit item is a double bonus for the Chinese economy. It brings in foreign money & erodes the value of genuine items produced by oversees OEM competitors.
 
chimpanchu said:
You gotta hand it to the Chinese, when it comes to selling dodgy items and faking stuff no body beat the Chinese.
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Incorrect as the Indians unfortunately have this covered...... majority of 22ct gold jewellery sold from india (and im talking about tonnes of the stuff) is usually less than 91.6%. On average what i get is between 20ct-21ct (83% - 88%) but alot of times it can also be low as 18ct stock so as you can see they are saving anywhere from 10-15% of gold which they pocket and when you times that by the tonnage you can sorta see who's making a killing.

To me that is the greatest gold scam in history which unfortunately still hasnt come out of the woodworks yet.....
 
Hi, I am thinking of buying gold from a local dealer in Sydney. It is PAMP 100 gm minted bar. How do I check if it is genuine gold and not a fake ? Is the certificate of authenticity enough or could that also be a fake ? thanks.
 
While it may not be the cheapest I am pretty comfortable walking into the Perth Mint and buying G/S I am pretty sure that is the real stuff :) Online buyer beware, however I still think it is pretty safe for the moment but the next 12 - 24 months that part of the market may be terribly risky.
 
I had the opportunity today to examine 2 FAKE morgan silver dollars and the only give away to my untrained eye is the weight comparison with a real one. Noticeable in the hand I found, but a scale would tell the real story. Comparing coins they look and feel exactly alike. Each had a different date so they have that solved as well.

If any of the numismatic enthusiasts here have suggestions on how to spot fakes (of all sorts!) please let us know. I ordered a fake sovereign off ebay to check what one looks like just so I know, but if a coin is in a coin envelope how would one know?
 
Austacker said:
While it may not be the cheapest I am pretty comfortable walking into the Perth Mint and buying G/S I am pretty sure that is the real stuff :) Online buyer beware, however I still think it is pretty safe for the moment but the next 12 - 24 months that part of the market may be terribly risky.
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Do you mean ordering from Perth Mint online may be risky in next 12-24 months ? Why do you think so ?

I am in Sydney and the only option for me to buy Perth Mint gold is online/phone.
 
vinod said:
Austacker said:
While it may not be the cheapest I am pretty comfortable walking into the Perth Mint and buying G/S I am pretty sure that is the real stuff :) Online buyer beware, however I still think it is pretty safe for the moment but the next 12 - 24 months that part of the market may be terribly risky.
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Do you mean ordering from Perth Mint online may be risky in next 12-24 months ? Why do you think so ?

I am in Sydney and the only option for me to buy Perth Mint gold is online/phone.
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No Perth Mint is safe as :) I mean for the Ebayer or other online buyer etc... At the moment we do not see a lot of fakes but when things heat up I am sure that these fakes will become more and more.
 
OK. The fake sov I got had 'copy' stamped into it. A real assay test would have the siren happening but from glance and handling it was very close to the real thing.

I go back to my previous post that bullion buys from places like eBay are fraught with risk, and these copies reaffirm that thought to me.
 
JulieW said:
OK. The fake sov I got had 'copy' stamped into it. A real assay test would have the siren happening but from glance and handling it was very close to the real thing.

I go back to my previous post that bullion buys from places like eBay are fraught with risk, and these copies reaffirm that thought to me.
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Julie a Sovereign like any coin has specific size and weights, however buying online does not allow this type of checking so Yes you are at the mercy of the seller. The fake sov you purchased will not be a good representation of a fake par's e as these are designed to give a collector a hole filler for the very rare options, yet they are pretty well made from what I have seen on other fakes.

A Sovereign should be - 21.5mm Diameter, and weigh 7.9881g the issue here is thickness to get the weight right, if they used lead or something it would only need to be a little thicker and all of the dimensions I gave could work. What are the dimensions of the fake ? See in older times they had a thickness scale a bit like the modern day fisch so those three tests would give you a pretty good idea.

It also depends on how they do the fake, but that is another subject again.
 
What then would you suggest for a simple or easy test for fakes Austacker?
 
The simplest way is to weight it. Use a caliper to check diameter and thinkness - done.
Very simple for gold, because the density is double most "common" metals used in fakes. Checking whether silver is real or not is alot more trickier
 
Incorrect as the Indians unfortunately have this covered...... majority of 22ct gold jewellery sold from india (and im talking about tonnes of the stuff) is usually less than 91.6%. On average what i get is between 20ct-21ct (83% - 88%) but alot of times it can also be low as 18ct stock so as you can see they are saving anywhere from 10-15% of gold which they pocket and when you times that by the tonnage you can sorta see who's making a killing.

To me that is the greatest gold scam in history which unfortunately still hasnt come out of the woodworks yet.....
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Adrian,

Have you bought gold from India ?? They do come with HALLMARK certification and Gold council certificate.
 
Incorrect as the Indians unfortunately have this covered...... majority of 22ct gold jewellery sold from india (and im talking about tonnes of the stuff) is usually less than 91.6%. On average what i get is between 20ct-21ct (83% - 88%) but alot of times it can also be low as 18ct stock so as you can see they are saving anywhere from 10-15% of gold which they pocket and when you times that by the tonnage you can sorta see who's making a killing.

To me that is the greatest gold scam in history which unfortunately still hasnt come out of the woodworks yet.....


Adrian,If you were buying gold jewellery a few years ago from a reputed jeweller in India, they were hallmarked according to the BIS[Bureaue of Indian standards].But if from small retailers they dont carry any hallmark[could be marked though like 22 or 22c] and you only need to pay very less than other reputable jewellers and hence the low carat.But now a days almost all jewellers are selling hallmarked gold.And as far as I know they dont sell any fake gold like some Chinese sellers on ebay.Hope this helps.
 
Found a video about this issue
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fS1rcE_yCc[/youtube]

Awesome video
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FvM_4B7Pkc[/youtube]
 
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