Long-term value of numis and semi-numis?

C

Cheepo

New Member
I see that mints, in particular the Perth mint, comes up with new numis or semi-numis series every couple of weeks or months, and has a lot of these coins. People buy them expecting them to raise in value, since there are few minted. But their price is obviously only based on how many people want to buy them. It seems to me that if the mint issues one new coin of a series every six months, or every year, there will be interest until the series ends, i.e. until they stop issuing new coins. But after that? Do these numis or semi-numis series keep their value over the longer term. Say, 20, 30, 40 years after the last coin was issued? Or once people stop talking about them, they also stop caring, and their prices drop?

What do you think? Is there any example of numis or semi-numis issued 30 years ago? What are their prices?
 
Bought some silver numismatic coins for our son 28(?) years ago, and today they are worth <1/2 of what they cost then. Allowing for inflation only, they are well and truly behind the curve!
 
From what I have seen there isn't much in the way of sleepers.

Either a modern numis coin became really popular soon after it was released and the price went stupid and then stabilised, e.g.

Victoria Cross
SAS
Redback
etc.

Or they just bob around release price forever.

A look at the McDonalds catalogue will show lots of current prices below issue, there was a year when the prices went up but this is noted in the book as being due to the rise in silver spot prices. The catalogue value is usually much higher that you can actually sell the items for so these must be really unpopular.

I think in most cases the prices were too high to begin with and now they have reached their natural market price.

They make too many, the commemorates commemorate things which really don't need commemorating (100 Years of the Australian Tax Office) and really I wouldn't even call them collectables let alone numismatics.
 
So it seems that collecting numis is not really a good idea long term, from a financial point of view. It's either for short-term speculation (in other words, funding suckers who are willing to pay even more), or then, of course, because of fancy (e.g. I like animals, so I buy the wildlife series and look at it every now and then, as one would buy a poster of Pamela Anderson). Would that more or less reflect your sentiment?
 
know the investment vehicle

not all stocks are good long term...
not all numismatic items are good either

some coins rise in value constantly, others have their drops and rises ...
 
I joined here because I've taken to stacking lately. Swore not to get into numis. But I'm finding lately that there are some good deals in modern US commemorative gold, and to some degree silver. Why not have shiny new US government issued commems instead of generic bars and rounds?

keep in mind...in the US, where I am, US coins sell better.
 
Just my opinion Mate,
The short answer is : don't bother with the proof stuff in boxes with COA's from the perth mint or any other mint for that matter. There are only a few series that go up in value, i.e. the D&D series (redback), the treasure series and so on, as others have mentioned. But there are not many ........ and so on's. There are a few series from all the mints, including those from Neui and cook islands etc, that go up in value, the problem is picking the very few that do. You basically need to buy almost every series to garentee gettting the ones that go up, which most people including me dont have. The problem is that most series do not go up, only down. Most coins are worth 50% of their RRP after a year, sometimes sooner. Some stay around the same or a tiny bit lower, but generally they all go way lower. I lost a lot of fiat buying this stuff because I could not get my money back when I wanted to sell. Trying to wait and sell when spot was much higher made little difference. A friend introduced me to bullion staking and SS and as they say, I have never looked back. Even today I still have some perth mint proof stuff that I loose money on when trying to sell it. You can but 3 - 4oz more stacking bullion for the same price. And as others have also mentioned, some bullion coins go up in value too, but you pay a higher premium for them. Once again you can buy a little more for the same money with low premium silver. So there is a little bit of a choice to make there too. Or like me, just buy both.
Cheers
 
I couldn't agree more with a lot of the posters here. I too collect both and at best I'll break even with all the numi purchases I've made from colored, to gilded, to 'reg' numi coins primarily from the Perth Mint. On some I lost a lost DD snake, and on others, 5 oz Niue gilded lunar horse I made a killing (on paper, and if it can sell). But I'd say generally speak the numismatic coins are not worth it (the modern ones). UNLESS, one is collecting to admire a piece of art and not necessarily focused on the investment value per se.
Heck, there are colored coins I do like to look at (Funnel Spider, Santa Maria great ship, Red Whelsh dragon, etc...), and bought them sorta knowing I wasn't going to see a huge return (no return, maybe a loss), especially when paying 160.00 for some. Just think how many kooks I could have bought with the 160.00, and over time those 5 kooks will perform much better than the 1 redwhelsh dragon, IMHO.
So, unless your a speculator or appreciate fine art (beauty is in the eye of the beholder), then I'd stay away from these modern collectibles. Another example is the Spider man series coin from APMEX. I bought 2 of the COA, with actual signature from Stan Lee. It wasn't cheap. About 569.00 to be exact. Will I get my money back, make money, break even? Who knows. But for me, every once a and a while it's fun to roll the dice. I figured Stan Lee is 91, and when he is gone, maybe this will go up in value, since there are only 25 of them. Who knows though. But I WENT INTO IT knowing it was a gamble, and that's okay.
On the flip, I only stack semi-numi silver (kooks, kolas, pandas, and lunars). I like these because for the most part you can buy these for the same price (a little more) as a silver eagle, but there aren't 40 million minted in a year, and the design changes every year, and if one year is a home run, and a new collector wants to collect the whole set, well, they are going to pay a pretty penny to get some of the older years to complete the set, as they have extremely limited mintage numbers (kooks, koalas). I do not stack rounds or mega minted coins (ASE's, maples, philharmonics, etc...), and ones that stay the same year after year...

My two cents.
 
I love numis, I have made more money on real numis (on paper as I don't want to sell) than I would make even if silver went to $200 an oz!
however don't confuse the granny bait that perth mint puts out as a numi. they are painted/pretty non circulating currency and as such are just glorified rounds Imho
having said that I love picking up them for less than spot when people want to sell their un wanted gifts that are gathering dust
 
There are different reasons for buying precious metals products and there are different factors for each buyer (including where you live, what's your age, whether you have children, etc, etc, etc).

Now whether premium ("semi-numi" or "collector") coins/medals hold their value in general depends on some of the above factors. For example, if you purchased semi-numi Kennedy coins back in 1964 as just one example and you held onto them for years till a milestone (10, 25, etc) anniversary of Kennedy's death came, you could sell those semi-numis and make out much better than if you had purchased a blob (common, non-denom bullion bar) and tried selling it (remember, dealers knock off a % from the current spot price when they buy back blobs).

That said, I do agree with some of the members here in contending that some Mints produce too many collector coins and too many that will likely not have much appeal years down the road. Animals on coins is a very popular theme with many stackers and collectors but there comes a saturation point and there have been in recent years dozens of collector (semi-numi) coins with animals that have been produced. Many will not do well for ROI but some will do spectacularly well. How do you know which will do well and which won't? I haven't figured that out yet....but I'm relatively new myself. What I can tell you is that there are some tried and true animal coins as mentioned by other forum members. A small handful of new animal coins have promise as well but only time will tell.

It appears that most Lunar Animal coins do maintain higher value over the years. Series 1 Lunar coins are fetching significant premiums from what I am seeing. My guess is the the Perth Mint will do a series 3 and so we will see Lunar series 2 get significant premiums down the road. I don't know what a 1999 1 oz proof Rabbit is fetching but I bet today you can make a lot more money selling one than if you were selling a blob that you might have purchased in 1999.

As for American semi-numis gaining value. Well, the America The Beautiful (ATB) series looks like a very good example of the collector (semi-numi) version performing well in the after market, especially top third party graded (TPG) examples. In fact this year I bought an SP70 2010 "P" ATB coin which I believe will gain significant premium down the road. I didn't even learn about this series till like the end of 2012 or beginning of 2013 (like I said, I am relatively new to seeing the value in precious metals products). The buzz surrounding the ATB series seems to be getting louder with every passing few months and as we see record sell-outs at the US Mint for the collector version, it's bound to be a good investment product.



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i wouldn't get a bunch of them, but i have a few, but they are for me, or as gifts, heck I'm regretting getting so many noahs arks, and brittanias. :(

so yeah i guess it depends on the coin... something people will love.

like one i got is for my little brothers wife, she's pregnant, its the mothers love coin from the perth mint. i hope that it would increase in value for her. but i wouldn't count on it.
its just too subjective.
 
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