Leyonhjelm - Pensions are charity

[Big A.D.]

Yep just like the generation before me & the generation before that ...and the generation before that lol .Even if i did save it im not giving away money im entitled to (says the government not just me ) : ...what is wrong with you ? :lol:

The generations before you had 15 workers for every retiree on a pension (and the pension age was higher that the average life expectancy to boot).

The generations after you will have about 3 or 4 workers per retiree.

There simply won't be enough younger generations working and paying taxes to be able to financially support all the older generations who are retired.

Or to put it another way, the cold, hard reality of not having enough revenues to pay pensions will ultimatum trump both what you think you're entitled to and also the law says you're entitled to as well.

Its a long time before im entitled to a pension but if its still a government entitlement i will be at centrelink with bells on .

I think thats why immigration laws have changed & baby bonus etc in the last decade to increase the population the only numbers i care about is the amount of taxpayers money in my account when the time comes . Im essentially arguing about nothing at this stage because the rules may well have changed by then .But as it stands im all for taking ANYTHING the powers say i can have & i think anyone that doesnt because of pride or emotions is foolish .

It'll be a long time before I retire too, but well before that happens we're going to have a very big problem with our demographics.

Unless we change the way we calculate what people are entitled to, we're not going to have enough money. The current entitlements aren't sustainable in a future where there are only three or four workers per retiree.

And yes, we're going to need more babies and more immigrants with a range of sills and abilities ranging from unskilled minimum wage earners all the way up to entrepreneurs and managers on very high incomes. 1 high income earner can generate as much tax revenue as 100 low income earners, but there's a limited supply of them and we still need people to serve takeaways, pick up the garbage and change the sheets in the nursing homes for huge number of old people we'll have.

(One of the reasons I'm in favor of not treating refugees like shit is that we actually need a hell of a lot of people who are prepared to start at the bottom in a new country and work hard to make a life for themselves here. We need them, they're prepared to risk their lives because they want to come here that badly so it should be a win-win.)

At present through, we have confused entitlement with need. We're barely going to be able to cope with people's actual needs, let alone what an army of aging Baby Boomers would be entitled to under the current rules.

Sure, take what you're entitled to but be aware that you're f--king things up by doing it.

 

[systematic]

Unlike corporations like google that pay bugger all tax, dont mind f--king things up for this nation,
and take take take offshore ... http://forums.silverstackers.com/message-773817.html#p773817

 

[renovator]

The generations before you had 15 workers for every retiree on a pension (and the pension age was higher that the average life expectancy to boot).

The generations after you will have about 3 or 4 workers per retiree.

There simply won't be enough younger generations working and paying taxes to be able to financially support all the older generations who are retired.

Or to put it another way, the cold, hard reality of not having enough revenues to pay pensions will ultimatum trump both what you think you're entitled to and also the law says you're entitled to as well.

Its a long time before im entitled to a pension but if its still a government entitlement i will be at centrelink with bells on .

I think thats why immigration laws have changed & baby bonus etc in the last decade to increase the population the only numbers i care about is the amount of taxpayers money in my account when the time comes . Im essentially arguing about nothing at this stage because the rules may well have changed by then .But as it stands im all for taking ANYTHING the powers say i can have & i think anyone that doesnt because of pride or emotions is foolish .

It'll be a long time before I retire too, but well before that happens we're going to have a very big problem with our demographics.

Unless we change the way we calculate what people are entitled to, we're not going to have enough money. The current entitlements aren't sustainable in a future where there are only three or four workers per retiree.

And yes, we're going to need more babies and more immigrants with a range of sills and abilities ranging from unskilled minimum wage earners all the way up to entrepreneurs and managers on very high incomes. 1 high income earner can generate as much tax revenue as 100 low income earners, but there's a limited supply of them and we still need people to serve takeaways, pick up the garbage and change the sheets in the nursing homes for huge number of old people we'll have.

(One of the reasons I'm in favor of not treating refugees like shit is that we actually need a hell of a lot of people who are prepared to start at the bottom in a new country and work hard to make a life for themselves here. We need them, they're prepared to risk their lives because they want to come here that badly so it should be a win-win.)

At present through, we have confused entitlement with need. We're barely going to be able to cope with people's actual needs, let alone what an army of aging Baby Boomers would be entitled to under the current rules.

Sure, take what you're entitled to but be aware that you're f--king things up by doing it.

They have been siphoning me my entire working life why would i care ?it will be my time to reverse the flow.(if its still available )

 

[systematic]

Huge multinational corporations are taking huge profits from this country, paying little or no tax while others are concerned about pension payments .... how retarded is that ....

 

[systematic]

And yes, we're going to need more babies and more immigrants with a range of sills and abilities .... and we still need people to serve takeaways, pick up the garbage and change the sheets in the nursing homes for huge number of old people we'll have.

(One of the reasons I'm in favor of not treating refugees like shit is that we actually need a hell of a lot of people who are prepared to start at the bottom in a new country and work hard to make a life for themselves here.

The reason we had immigration waves in the late 1950s and 60s was to bring in migrants to do the work others didnt want to do ... and its pretty much the same lazy bone arse reason today .... while others insist on how important their cushy desk jobs are so they can fluff around and get paid well for it .... because they sure as hell arent willing to "work" for it .... yeah bring in more cheap labour ... we have meetings ... and beer and bbqs to attend to ... and those migrants that came and worked hard, really hard .... dont deserve a pension because they didnt piss it up against the wall ....

 

[renovator]

Huge multinational corporations are taking huge profits from this country, paying little or no tax while others are concerned about pension payments .... how retarded is that ....

Perfectly normal for any self interest group :

 

[systematic]

Huge multinational corporations are taking huge profits from this country, paying little or no tax while others are concerned about pension payments .... how retarded is that ....

Perfectly normal for any self interest group : tbh i doubt i will be eligible im just floating the idea for anyone reading that thinks giving away free money is dumb

Paying people money to sit on their bums for a living is giving away free money .... coming to this country, working hard, being a saver and trying to build a life for themselves, getting old ...
is exploitation ....

I doubt i will be eligible either ... but im not gullible enough to believe the bs politicians spin ...

 

[SpacePete]

I am sitting on my bum earning money right now

It's not as much fun as you might think.

 

[systematic]

I am sitting on my bum earning money right now

It's not as much fun as you might think.

Its not meant to be fun .... corporations need zombies ... it helps them avoid scrutiny and their employees unwittingly defend them ... because they are subconsciously suckling from their payroll teat ... the love of money is the root of all evil ... whether you believe it or not ...

I generally 2 kinds of reactions pointing this out ... those that see the truth in it are not offended ...
those guilty of the truth in it are offended ...

 

[renovator]

I am sitting on my bum earning money right now

It's not as much fun as you might think.

Its not meant to be fun .... its meant to be mind numbingly dumb .... corporations need zombies ... it helps them avoid scrutiny and their employees unwittingly defend them ... because they are subconsciously suckling from their payroll teat ... the love of money is the root of all evil ... whether you believe it or not ...

I believe it . It is also the source of much fun .I have seen so many people change or do stupid things over money .

@ silverpete i also agree. Being in business i know sitting at a desk doing paperwork or at a computer is stressful & no fun I would much rather be doing other things

 

[systematic]

I am sitting on my bum earning money right now

It's not as much fun as you might think.

Its not meant to be fun .... its meant to be mind numbingly dumb .... corporations need zombies ... it helps them avoid scrutiny and their employees unwittingly defend them ... because they are subconsciously suckling from their payroll teat ... the love of money is the root of all evil ... whether you believe it or not ...

I have seen so many people change or do stupid things over money .

exactly

 

[SpacePete]

Its not meant to be fun .... its meant to be mind numbingly dumb .... corporations need zombies ... it helps them avoid scrutiny and their employees unwittingly defend them ... because they are subconsciously suckling from their payroll teat ... the love of money is the root of all evil ... whether you believe it or not ...

I have seen so many people change or do stupid things over money .

exactly

And women.... also a reason for guys doing stupid things

 

[Jislizard]

...
They have been siphoning me my entire working life why would i care ?it will be my time to reverse the flow.(if its still available )

They (as in the Government) have been siphoning off you for your entire working life, but the money coming from reversing the flow isn't coming out of the Government's pockets, they are empty, it will be coming out of other tax payers'.

Which all works quite well, until we run out of tax payers, or the number of tax payers is less than the number of people living off their backs.

I was fortunate, when I started work they told me outright, "If you expect there to be a government pension waiting for you when you retire you are deluded, you need to sort yourself out."

The generation before me thought that they had paid money into a big government pension fund that had been well invested and would pay them out for the rest of their life, and it would be a cushy retirement. That's what they were told. But even my folks had private pension plans (which were also lies and didn't return nearly as much as the financial advisers said they would), so I guess not everyone believed it even then.

We should be sorted, unless the gov starts raiding the Superannuation but even then, I have my stack.

 

[systematic]

It is more likely the government will pick the public's pockets ... rather than private enterprise ...

 

[JulieW]

I have seen so many people change or do stupid things over money .

exactly

And women.... also a reason for guys doing stupid things

and vice versa!

 

[l***g]

The pension is charity in the same way that unemployment benefits are charity.

Those poor people that have to use it or risk starving to death are to be pitied and should get it.

Those people who chose to recieve it, either as a lifestyle choice or through poor planning or hiding assets, when there is something they could do that would mean they do not need it, are misusing the system.

 

[lurk@l0t]

The generations before you had 15 workers for every retiree on a pension (and the pension age was higher that the average life expectancy to boot).

The generations after you will have about 3 or 4 workers per retiree.

There simply won't be enough younger generations working and paying taxes to be able to financially support all the older generations who are retired.

Or to put it another way, the cold, hard reality of not having enough revenues to pay pensions will ultimatum trump both what you think you're entitled to and also the law says you're entitled to as well.

Its a long time before im entitled to a pension but if its still a government entitlement i will be at centrelink with bells on .

I think thats why immigration laws have changed & baby bonus etc in the last decade to increase the population the only numbers i care about is the amount of taxpayers money in my account when the time comes . Im essentially arguing about nothing at this stage because the rules may well have changed by then .But as it stands im all for taking ANYTHING the powers say i can have & i think anyone that doesnt because of pride or emotions is foolish .

It'll be a long time before I retire too, but well before that happens we're going to have a very big problem with our demographics.

Unless we change the way we calculate what people are entitled to, we're not going to have enough money. The current entitlements aren't sustainable in a future where there are only three or four workers per retiree.

And yes, we're going to need more babies and more immigrants with a range of sills and abilities ranging from unskilled minimum wage earners all the way up to entrepreneurs and managers on very high incomes. 1 high income earner can generate as much tax revenue as 100 low income earners, but there's a limited supply of them and we still need people to serve takeaways, pick up the garbage and change the sheets in the nursing homes for huge number of old people we'll have.

(One of the reasons I'm in favor of not treating refugees like shit is that we actually need a hell of a lot of people who are prepared to start at the bottom in a new country and work hard to make a life for themselves here. We need them, they're prepared to risk their lives because they want to come here that badly so it should be a win-win.)

At present through, we have confused entitlement with need. We're barely going to be able to cope with people's actual needs, let alone what an army of aging Baby Boomers would be entitled to under the current rules.

Sure, take what you're entitled to but be aware that you're f--king things up by doing it.

Since over 90% of refugees live off welfare for the rest of their lives, i find your suggestion that they are somehow an integral part of the 'solution' highly amusing! :lol:
The overwhelming majority are lifelong welfare parasites and simply compound the unsustainability of our current welfare state model many times!

 

[hawkeye]

What about the public sector? I know in other countries that they get government pensions above what the average person does. Is the same true here? Or they get it at an earlier age or whatever. I honestly don't know but am very curious because what I see in places like America pretty much amounts to fraud in my mind, government-sanctioned fraud but fraud all the same.

I completely agree about the pension being charity. I have no intention of taking it personally, if I can possibly help it. Never know where life will take you of course but that is my intention.

 

[SpacePete]

Its been shown that adding more people is now actually making things even worse. Its just not working anymore. And anyway, it would just be kicking the can down the road.

 

[smk762]

Since over 90% of refugees live off welfare for the rest of their lives, i find your suggestion that they are somehow an integral part of the 'solution' highly amusing! :lol:
The overwhelming majority are lifelong welfare parasites and simply compound the unsustainability of our current welfare state model many times!

Please provide some sources to validate your rhetoric. I'm aware that bridging visas for asylum seekers specifically prohibit employment. Upon residency being granted, there may be language and cultural barriers that reduce their ability for find employment, and discrimination also plays it's part when they are submitting applications. The current 12 year high in unemployment figures certainly don't help either.

In many cases, their inability to be self supporting is at least partly due to systematic factors. Funding for education and training should be a priority, but who wants to pay for that? Their reliance on welfare is not ideal, but an effective program for their transition to employment is not available. Unfortunately this has the potential to promote recruitment into extremism, as idle hands seek purpose from a sympathetic benefactor with manipulative methods and malevolent intentions. On the flipside, this by extension allows for justification to increase government funding for agencies and programs that promote fascism and diminish the liberty of all citizens.

Perpetual welfare is a waste of taxpayer's money, as much as welfare reliance is an abdication of liberty. The cost of increasing fascism is bourne by the citizens who trade liberty for the perception of security. Personally I'd prefer my tax dollars went to training those declared as refugees with skills our economies have a shortage of, and employer subsidies for those willing to give them a chance and able to mould them into productive citizens. Eventually, hopefully, this would reduce the adversarial and intolerant climate we exist in at present.