Leyonhjelm - Pensions are charity

[JulieW]

Reverse mortgages are a bankster scam.

 

[AngloSaxon]

Today, common people who bought a home and paid the mortgage for decades find themselves in million dollar houses not by any savvy investing knowledge or high income in decades past - it's just the inflationary housing market.

In my suburb the median housing price for a free standing house is now $1million. I'm not going to give away where I live but until the last 10 years it was far from a wealthy area, quite the opposite. Retirees in areas where inflation has set in shouldn't be forced to leave their perfectly functional houses to move in to tiny box apartments on the other side of town that start to fall down as soon as they are completed.

I thought Leyonhjelm would be in favour of selling off public assets. Disappointed if he isn't.

 

[JulieW]

Having destroyed the family unit, the powers that be are now working on creating a feudal slave labour society, which will of course reconstruct the family unit as it clings together for food and warmth.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_hYdywoV_Q[/youtube]

 

[SpacePete]

Today, common people who bought a home and paid the mortgage for decades find themselves in million dollar houses not by any savvy investing knowledge or high income in decades past - it's just the inflationary housing market.

In my suburb the median housing price for a free standing house is now $1million. I'm not going to give away where I live but until the last 10 years it was far from a wealthy area, quite the opposite. Retirees in areas where inflation has set in shouldn't be forced to leave their perfectly functional houses to move in to tiny box apartments on the other side of town that start to fall down as soon as they are completed.

I thought Leyonhjelm would be in favour of selling off public assets. Disappointed if he isn't.

That's what happens when we sell our souls to profit from housing investment and speculation. God help you if you find yourself in a suburb popular with overseas investors.

 

[renovator]

Retirees in areas where inflation has set in shouldn't be forced to leave their perfectly functional houses to move in to tiny box apartments on the other side of town that start to fall down as soon as they are completed.

Should they be able to live in their million dollar home, claim the pension and then pass on their million dollar home to their children?

YES !!! Of course otherwise you are discriminating against others.

So the person that has a cheaper house can stay where they are but the other person has to sell & move ? Its all too hard & a can of worms that even the powers can see it would open . There is no middle ground

 

[renovator]

Im shocked at the amount of people who think that paying massive amounts of tax dont deserve a pension ...obviously you havent given them enough ....yet

 

[systematic]

Maybe he needs to draw a distinction between having a "job" and "working" ie making a tangible contribution through the expenditure of energy ...

Wow. You're a bit of a job snob. It's only "work" if you break out in a sweat.

Maybe im just a realist ... its not about sweating .... here is a case of a "hard working" office worker ... or someone with a job at least that turned up to get paid .... because its not about "work" its about getting money for something even if its close to nothing ....

People think they work hard because they are delusional and lazy is the new norm ...

Dead worker lay slumped at desk cubicle for 24 hours before discovered
"The body of a worker, discovered slumped over her desk, could have been there for 24 hours, according to police. Rebecca Wells, 51, who was a compliance auditor for the LA County internal services department (ISD), is thought to have died while working at her station cubicle last Friday."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...partment-Internal-Services.html#ixzz3S8tjgkmF

Obviously wasn't pay day ...

 

[renovator]

Should they be able to live in their million dollar home, claim the pension and then pass on their million dollar home to their children?

YES !!! Of course otherwise you are discriminating against others.
So the person that has a cheaper house can stay where they are but the other person has to sell & move ? Its all too hard & a can of worms that even the powers can see it would open . There is no middle ground

As I've already said, it's not my position that they should be forced to move. I think anyone who owns a home (regardless of value) should have any welfare benefits received while alive garnished from the estate once they've passed (before the assets are distributed to beneficiaries). I don't think that's unreasonable, do you?

Im shocked at the amount of people who think that paying massive amounts of tax dont deserve a pension ...obviously you havent given them enough ....yet

They didn't save these taxes up so that they can fund your retirement , they were spent on services, infrastructure and other benefits while you were paying them.

Talk about a sense of entitlement.

Yep i think im entitled to a pension ...thanks for noticing :

I make no apologies for wanting something back from the enormous amount ive paid. Now if i thought they had spent it wisely my opinion would be different but the waste & excessive spending ive seen over the years & the massive pensions politicians get helped me come to that conclusion

 

[systematic]

Retirees in areas where inflation has set in shouldn't be forced to leave their perfectly functional houses to move in to tiny box apartments on the other side of town that start to fall down as soon as they are completed.

Should they be able to live in their million dollar home, claim the pension and then pass on their million dollar home to their children?

If they pass the means test and are eligible why not? Just because bankers drive down interest rates and create a real estate bubble doesnt make a person "rich" when they are cash flow "poor" ....

 

[renovator]

Retirees in areas where inflation has set in shouldn't be forced to leave their perfectly functional houses to move in to tiny box apartments on the other side of town that start to fall down as soon as they are completed.

Should they be able to live in their million dollar home, claim the pension and then pass on their million dollar home to their children?

If they pass the means test and are eligible why not? Just because bankers drive down interest rates and create a real estate bubble doesnt make a person "rich" when they are cash flow "poor" ....

Theres the rub ...being asset rich doesnt mean your cash rich . I know quite a few people who are asset rich & cash flow poor. It doesnt mean because you were smarter than the next guy & preserved some of your wealth in assets means you should be penalised .
You deserve the same benefits as the fool whos money was parted from him his entire life

 

[systematic]

They didn't save these taxes up so that they can fund your retirement , they were spent on services, infrastructure and other benefits while you were paying them.

Talk about a sense of entitlement.

It sounds like fiat is a store of value when it suits .... and yet conjured up by banks as it suits ... let the public fight over money and who is entitled to what ... oldest bankers trick in the book ...

 

[renovator]

Yep i think im entitled to a pension ...thanks for noticing :

I make no apologies for wanting something back from the enormous amount ive paid. Now if i thought they had spent it wisely my opinion would be different but the waste & excessive spending ive seen over the years & the massive pensions politicians get helped me come to that conclusion

So basically you think younger generations should fund your retirement because you didn't save for it yourself or hold the government of your time to account?

Nice.

Yep just like the generation before me & the generation before that ...and the generation before that lol .Even if i did save it im not giving away money im entitled to (says the government not just me ) : ...what is wrong with you ? :lol:

 

[renovator]

If they pass the means test and are eligible why not? Just because bankers drive down interest rates and create a real estate bubble doesnt make a person "rich" when they are cash flow "poor" ....

So what's the problem with taking the equivalent of what they received in welfare from sale of the asset after they're deceased?

Oh dear .......................... :lol:

 

[systematic]

They didn't save these taxes up so that they can fund your retirement , they were spent on services, infrastructure and other benefits while you were paying them.

Talk about a sense of entitlement.

Maybe you should write to the queen and object to her sense of entitlement for public money being spent for her benefit and lineage improving and maintaining her land ... Crown land ....

 

[renovator]

So what's the problem with taking the equivalent of what they received in welfare from sale of the asset after they're deceased?

Oh dear .......................... :lol:

So you've got no reasonable discussion to refute the fairness of that suggestion. That's what I thought.

If you cant discern from my previous posts you are still penalising the person who was astute with their money over the fool there really isnt anything else to add .hence my>>>

 

[FlashInThePan]

The conversation I think would be better placed at investigating exactly how and why debt was incurred in the first place, then rather than unconditionally accepting this, start laying down some conditions on its repayment as this is there debt not ours.

The people should be requiring firstly, the books be opened for public investigation. Has anyone seen the books, how does anyone know Goverment debt even exists?

Remember the State are trustees who are operating under limited delegated rights who are required to manage the books very carefully persuiant to there oath.

They claim there is a debt, then show us and start explaining ....... Line for line on each and every book entry.

 

[Big A.D.]

Yep i think im entitled to a pension ...thanks for noticing :

I make no apologies for wanting something back from the enormous amount ive paid. Now if i thought they had spent it wisely my opinion would be different but the waste & excessive spending ive seen over the years & the massive pensions politicians get helped me come to that conclusion

So basically you think younger generations should fund your retirement because you didn't save for it yourself or hold the government of your time to account?

Nice.

Yep just like the generation before me & the generation before that ...and the generation before that lol .Even if i did save it im not giving away money im entitled to (says the government not just me ) : ...what is wrong with you ? :lol:

The generations before you had 15 workers for every retiree on a pension (and the pension age was higher that the average life expectancy to boot).

The generations after you will have about 3 or 4 workers per retiree.

There simply won't be enough younger generations working and paying taxes to be able to financially support all the older generations who are retired.

Or to put it another way, the cold, hard reality of not having enough revenues to pay pensions will ultimatum trump both what you think you're entitled to and also the law says you're entitled to as well.

 

[renovator]

The conversation I think would be better placed at investigating exactly how and why debt was incurred in the first place, then rather than unconditionally accepting this, start laying down some conditions on its repayment as this is there debt not ours.

The people should be requiring firstly, the books be opened for public investigation. Has anyone seen the books, how does anyone know Goverment debt even exists?

Remember the State are trustees who are operating under limited delegated rights who are required to manage the books very carefully persuiant to there oath.

They claim there is a debt, then show us and start explaining ....... Line for line on each and every book entry.

That would be perfect ..but a little fanciful dont you think ?

 

[bordsilver]

I thought Leyonhjelm would be in favour of selling off public assets. Disappointed if he isn't.

He is in favour. His issue (or the reason why he raises it in this specific context) is that the taxes paid by the baby boomers hasn't been put into some special fund that can be drawn down in the future to pay for their retirement. Instead the money raised from their taxes and from the asset sales has been pissed away on current expenditure.

People like reno are trying to argue that a pension is their entitlement for the taxes they have paid. As BB has pointed out, David's point is that this simply has not happened. Hence, even though Australia's pension system is not as big a Ponzi scheme as the USA's or most of Europe's, it is still a Ponzi scheme dependent on subsequent generations paying for the (implied/assumed) promises to the baby boomers etc.

The pension needs to be viewed as the welfare payment that is really is. It is simply a transfer from current workers to current needy people who are unable to look after themselves. Hence, anyone who has the means to not receive the pension should not receive it.

 

[systematic]

So what's the problem with taking the equivalent of what they received in welfare from sale of the asset after they're deceased?

Oh dear .......................... :lol:

So you've got no reasonable discussion to refute the fairness of that suggestion. That's what I thought.

Does this theory apply to bullion assets too? If a person scrimps and saves precious metals most of their life should they sell them before they qualify for welfare ... or if the price of those metals skyrockets upon their death those pms be seized to pay for said "welfare" ... i am having trouble with your logic ...