LBC's Badon Pulls Support For NCS

C

Catseye

Member
Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #136 - NCS, peak profit, unpeaked varieties

http://www.livebusinesschat.com/smf/index.php?topic=5031.msg29602#new

NCS out of favor


I've got some bad news everyone: NCS is out of favor. They soared in popularity when prices gained for coins that had been NCS conserved. That was their big opportunity to listen to the screams of people begging them to get coins labeled that they have been NCS conserved, but they blew it. Not only do they not certify a coin's conservation status, but they also do not reliably conserve the coins. Instead, they increased prices, and tell you they will "evaluate" the coin for conservation. Unfortunately, that is not enough anymore to justify the premiums I used to pay for NCS conserved coins. I can't trust that a coin has been conserved, even if it comes with invoices showing it has been through NCS. If NCS won't stand behind their work, I guess I won't either.

I'm very disappointed. I have been a huge fan of NCS for a long time, and I'm sure I'm responsible for spreading much of the good-will they had earned previously. I feel they have made some serious strategic business mistakes that are going to punish them, and us, for a long time. Maybe then, they'll realize that they can't ignore the market's needs. We want to KNOW our coins have been conserved. We don't want to guess, we don't want uncertified promises, and most of all, we don't want to see dirty metal disks accompanied by NCS invoices - that's not good enough for this market anymore. If we, as buyers, don't pay premium prices for NCS conserved coins anymore, how can we expect dealers to pay for conservation? What does NCS have that any average hill billy coin conservator doesn't have? With no labels, and no guarantees, I am having difficulty finding the distinction.

NCS, if you're reading this, backtrack as fast as you can. The "NCS conserved" premium is floating away, and it's your fault. The market demand is there, and it has been patiently begging for over a year now. The problem is you, NCS. Your market has waited long enough, and it's time for us to move on. NCS conserved coins have been removed from the LBC list because we look like fools recommending "NCS conserved" coins to our readers when there's no way to know whether a coin has actually been conserved or not. I might as well put on my Elvis suit next time I sing NCS's praises...

Every coin you are paid to conserve should at least get a solvent bath to remove residues (deionized water, MEK, acetone, ultrasound, voodoo, etc). If you can guarantee us that much at a bare minimum (on the NGC label - we won't take your word for it anymore), it will be worth paying a premium for the peace-of-mind knowing that the coin has been expertly conserved by experienced professionals, and is less likely to degrade than unconserved coins.

That's all I've got to say, NCS. I'm really hoping you have something to say, too.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry. I found this argument ridiculous. But then I always see thing the awful way, hahaha.

Conservation is good thing, there is no two way about it. NCS does a good job conserving your coin. So why pull the support when the management do the silly decision. Conservation is technical, fees, labels, whatnot, are well, the management business, don't mix the technical matter with business matter.

We say quality is king. We also led to believe the BIG DAY has yet to come. We know when the BIG DAY finally arrive (:D) we want to have the best of the best with us so we can reap the most of the most profit in our lifetime. So, conservation is one thing we do to ensure our coins maintain the way they are until we see that BD.

So for a person who keenly believe in the BD, what is the problem with the small fees compared to the golden profit we are yet to see? If you ever believe your $1000 coin will be a $100000 when the BD arrive, what is the problem of paying $200 to NCS today. What is the problem of no label if it is to stay in your collection until that BD. You want to risk your $1000 coin with no conservation because of the stupid NCS management nonsense? I know I don't.

Perhaps NCS did a right thing here. They hinder people from using their service thus leaving more and more coin in risk of becoming tomorrow's problem coin.

So if you genuinely love your coin, if you genuinely want to take care of your coin because you want to pass it down to your children, if they are going to stay in your collection for the next 30 or 50 years, tell me, what is your real problem with today's NCS service? Come on, label and other thing has been there for many years. Price hike?

p/s: I use "we" in referring to people collecting or investing in MCC. Personally I have nearly zero interest in owning any MCC at the moment, except for a bronze medal I bought recently. No plan on buying any MCC. I am merely a keen watcher. I don't use NCS for the type of old China coins I collect
 
I understand well?
If i pay to a ncs service and the technicals think my coins dont need conservation. They dont conserve it and bill me the same?
I sent to ncs/ngc the singapore 1 oz and 5 oz. Because i will gave it to my daughters.
But if ncs dont make a conservation. Im not sure of the coins will have good aspect in 20/30 years.
 
I agree, conservation is great. The problem is that you have no way of knowing if your coin has been conserved or not, and there have been many cases over the past year in which the coin was clearly not conserved even though it should have been.
 
Now that NCS may or may not conserve my coins, EVEN when I pay for them to do it... I may actually get to use my ELITE status at NGC! :)

Normally I just send all my Pandas to NCS to get conserved, but now I might need to sort through which coins go to NCS and which go direct to NGC.
 
yennus said:
Now that NCS may or may not conserve my coins, EVEN when I pay for them to do it... I may actually get to use my ELITE status at NGC! :)

Normally I just send all my Pandas to NCS to get conserved, but now I might need to sort through which coins go to NCS and which go direct to NGC.
Click to expand...

This isn't a new policy. If you read NCS' terms, it's always been that way.

The difference is that with the change in pricing structure, before it didn't really matter. Now they are charging a percentage of the market value *and* not doing anything.

Personally, I still send all my coins to NCS, but the vast majority of my coins are under the $300 limit in raw condition.
 
So any indication that those coins i send to NCS are conserve or not ? or just see invoice ....
Still have no news on the coins i send to NCS first . :(

I certainly hope they just conserve it and then send to NGC to grade .. cause i do not want my little daughter to open a safe full of moldy coins in 30 years time .
 
If i understand it correctly, if the value of the coin or medal is above $300 and you pay (is it 5%) of the FMV of the coin for conservation and they decide not to conserve it, aren't we paying for nothing but an evaluation of the coin especially if the coin is a high valued coin? Have I understood this correctly?
 
Justfishin said:
If you completed an NCS invoice with "C" chosen for under $300 raw--they will be conserved
Click to expand...

Really? "they will be conserved" or "they may be conserved"?
 
yennus said:
Justfishin said:
If you completed an NCS invoice with "C" chosen for under $300 raw--they will be conserved
Click to expand...

Really? "they will be conserved" or "they may be conserved"?
Click to expand...


Straight off Invoice---

C. Modern conservation with grading. (Any uncertified US or foreign coin 1970 to date, valued
$300 or less) Modern fee is $26.50 / coin, includes conservation and grading. Five (5) coin minimum.
 
Catseye said:
Modern Chinese coin investments LIST #136 - NCS, peak profit, unpeaked varieties

http://www.livebusinesschat.com/smf/index.php?topic=5031.msg29602#new

NCS out of favor


I've got some bad news everyone: NCS is out of favor. They soared in popularity when prices gained for coins that had been NCS conserved. That was their big opportunity to listen to the screams of people begging them to get coins labeled that they have been NCS conserved, but they blew it. Not only do they not certify a coin's conservation status, but they also do not reliably conserve the coins. Instead, they increased prices, and tell you they will "evaluate" the coin for conservation. Unfortunately, that is not enough anymore to justify the premiums I used to pay for NCS conserved coins. I can't trust that a coin has been conserved, even if it comes with invoices showing it has been through NCS. If NCS won't stand behind their work, I guess I won't either.

I'm very disappointed. I have been a huge fan of NCS for a long time, and I'm sure I'm responsible for spreading much of the good-will they had earned previously. I feel they have made some serious strategic business mistakes that are going to punish them, and us, for a long time. Maybe then, they'll realize that they can't ignore the market's needs. We want to KNOW our coins have been conserved. We don't want to guess, we don't want uncertified promises, and most of all, we don't want to see dirty metal disks accompanied by NCS invoices - that's not good enough for this market anymore. If we, as buyers, don't pay premium prices for NCS conserved coins anymore, how can we expect dealers to pay for conservation? What does NCS have that any average hill billy coin conservator doesn't have? With no labels, and no guarantees, I am having difficulty finding the distinction.

NCS, if you're reading this, backtrack as fast as you can. The "NCS conserved" premium is floating away, and it's your fault. The market demand is there, and it has been patiently begging for over a year now. The problem is you, NCS. Your market has waited long enough, and it's time for us to move on. NCS conserved coins have been removed from the LBC list because we look like fools recommending "NCS conserved" coins to our readers when there's no way to know whether a coin has actually been conserved or not. I might as well put on my Elvis suit next time I sing NCS's praises...

Every coin you are paid to conserve should at least get a solvent bath to remove residues (deionized water, MEK, acetone, ultrasound, voodoo, etc). If you can guarantee us that much at a bare minimum (on the NGC label - we won't take your word for it anymore), it will be worth paying a premium for the peace-of-mind knowing that the coin has been expertly conserved by experienced professionals, and is less likely to degrade than unconserved coins.

That's all I've got to say, NCS. I'm really hoping you have something to say, too.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I respect badon tremendously but reverently disagree ... NCS will be around for a long time regardless if a coin is labeled "NCS Conserved" or not
 
low said:
Sorry. I found this argument ridiculous. But then I always see thing the awful way, hahaha.

Conservation is good thing, there is no two way about it. NCS does a good job conserving your coin. So why pull the support when the management do the silly decision. Conservation is technical, fees, labels, whatnot, are well, the management business, don't mix the technical matter with business matter.

We say quality is king. We also led to believe the BIG DAY has yet to come. We know when the BIG DAY finally arrive (:D) we want to have the best of the best with us so we can reap the most of the most profit in our lifetime. So, conservation is one thing we do to ensure our coins maintain the way they are until we see that BD.

So for a person who keenly believe in the BD, what is the problem with the small fees compared to the golden profit we are yet to see? If you ever believe your $1000 coin will be a $100000 when the BD arrive, what is the problem of paying $200 to NCS today. What is the problem of no label if it is to stay in your collection until that BD. You want to risk your $1000 coin with no conservation because of the stupid NCS management nonsense? I know I don't.

Perhaps NCS did a right thing here. They hinder people from using their service thus leaving more and more coin in risk of becoming tomorrow's problem coin.

So if you genuinely love your coin, if you genuinely want to take care of your coin because you want to pass it down to your children, if they are going to stay in your collection for the next 30 or 50 years, tell me, what is your real problem with today's NCS service? Come on, label and other thing has been there for many years. Price hike?

p/s: I use "we" in referring to people collecting or investing in MCC. Personally I have nearly zero interest in owning any MCC at the moment, except for a bronze medal I bought recently. No plan on buying any MCC. I am merely a keen watcher. I don't use NCS for the type of old China coins I collect
Click to expand...

As always well said Low ... you saved me alot of typing :D
 
The benefit I see from NCS marking the slabs is to discourage people from writing NCS conserved in auctions with possible falsification. The only way to judge is to ask for receipt, but I doubt anyone does it. While NCS may be doing a good job (do not know), they must mark the slabs to eliminate false advertisement.
 
Interesting thread here , probably dosent matter but all the coins I have bought as conserved or sent to ncs/ngc have come back with a seriel number starting with 36 . Does anyone know if ncs or ngc keeps records corolating the serial numbers of each coin with conservation where you or they could look up the serial number and it will tell if it has been conserved? i can say personally all the coins i have bought conserved or sent myself have come back free of any tarnish and usually at least lessons if not removes white spots which i cant say for many of the regular graded coins even ms/pf 69s , so I have been happy with it ,but to each theyre own opinion . Does anyone have proof that they do not conserve some coins that they have paid for conservation? It could be also a liability issue they do not want to deal with , i have also supected liability may be why so few older pandas get a 70 grade and so many perfect looking 69s, where as I have had several examples of ms and pf 70 modern coins like eagles and new pandas ect. from the large dealers that send coins in mass to be graded that have obvious flaws, but it is hardly worth the time to question the grade on a $100 coin where as a $2000 coin would be much different. Anyway who knows sorry to get off topic.
 
tamo42 said:
I agree, conservation is great. The problem is that you have no way of knowing if your coin has been conserved or not, and there have been many cases over the past year in which the coin was clearly not conserved even though it should have been.
Click to expand...

Not sure if I agree with you re the NCS should conserve the coin they don't think conservation will help the coin.

I have been reading about NCS for years, long before I know about MCC. One repeated question, and NCS keep answering IS, will NCS conserve every single coin presented to them? NO. NCS will only conserve coin that they believe conservation will help preserve the coin in the long term.

You have to pay for the time for them to inspect the coin to determine if further work required. That is fair business.

Every coin you are paid to conserve should at least get a solvent bath to remove residues (deionized water, MEK, acetone, ultrasound, voodoo, etc).
Click to expand...

Consider this example, a rich joker cracked an already NCS conserved MS69 and re-submit to NCS. Following the suggestion of every coin should be conserve, NCS do a 2nd conservation on this coin. And what if a 3rd time this same coin submitted again. 3rd conservation?

What if NCS found ZERO residues left on the coin? Still want a solvent bath?
 
Yes I would want it to be conserved again.

Reasons being:
- I paid for it.
- The techniques can get better over time; being conserved in 1999 may not be as good as the conservation in 2012.
- Silver does react with the air, even if it's slow and not visible to the 10x magnification.

Having said that, I was never really a big fan of NCS or at least the premium aspect.

I am of the belief "buy the coin not the grade/gimmick" etc.

If I buy a coin and it's beautiful it doesn't matter to me if it is NCS'd or not. If NCS makes it look better then I will of course pay more but blindly paying more just because it is claimed to have been NCS'd did not make sense to me and still doesn't.

I have some NCS'd historical figures which frankly look fantastic & shiny but I also have some NCS'd pandas which look ugly with NCS.

What I know is that less and less of the newer (> 2010) coins will get NCS'd but still graded due to cost and loss of confidence in NCS.

However, I guess as long as NCS can conserve it in a future date and retain the same grade it's fine with me to buy non NCS'd coins.

If they can make circulated 1000 year old coins pretty, they can make my 30 year old MCC kept uncirculated in NGC holder pretty.
 
low said:
Consider this example, a rich joker cracked an already NCS conserved MS69 and re-submit to NCS. Following the suggestion of every coin should be conserve, NCS do a 2nd conservation on this coin. And what if a 3rd time this same coin submitted again. 3rd conservation?

What if NCS found ZERO residues left on the coin? Still want a solvent bath?
Click to expand...

Of course. There is no harm in doing that. The payment to NCS is for all of service+material for conservation. No free lunch. Bad business practice. Don't think NCS can conserve ? Refund the material money, and keep the inspection money.
 
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