stackeract
New Member
Pirocco said:
Well, silber-corner has like 100 or so mouse kilos available....
kg coins
- Thread starter dragafem
- Start date
Well, silber-corner has like 100 or so mouse kilos available....
stackeract
New Member
Holdfast said:Regardless - Perth have always been open with the Lunar Kilo coins, so it's not the Mint's problem, it's new stackers or those out of touch with what's going on in the market.
If a person pays top dollar for a lunar kilo bullion coin before researching then they are at fault!
The market is full of tricks but when a person can google and...research via many avenues and still not understand...well...that to me is just part of learning. Learning cost money or... you could use the Silver Stackers Search engine to cut your losses.
Where the kilo coins came from is not important because you should be buying 5oz coins anyway!
I don't agree with that. Just because the Perth Mint can, didn't mean they will -- in the past.
Same with the Kookaburras, obviosuly there was nothing that stopped them from reminting them, but no one ever thought they would.
But all of a sudden the Perth Mint does remint them and this caused quite some outrage amoung all of us, including you Holdfast.
Pirocco said:
Several hundred Series I 1oz gold tigers entered the market a few months ago under these circumstances - an investor sold a few hundred oz of their gold. Just happened to all be 1oz lunar tigers from 1998
stackeract said:Holdfast said:Regardless - Perth have always been open with the Lunar Kilo coins, so it's not the Mint's problem, it's new stackers or those out of touch with what's going on in the market.
If a person pays top dollar for a lunar kilo bullion coin before researching then they are at fault!
The market is full of tricks but when a person can google and...research via many avenues and still not understand...well...that to me is just part of learning. Learning cost money or... you could use the Silver Stackers Search engine to cut your losses.
Where the kilo coins came from is not important because you should be buying 5oz coins anyway!
I don't agree with that. Just because the Perth Mint can, didn't mean they will -- in the past.
Same with the Kookaburras, obviosuly there was nothing that stopped them from reminting them, but no one ever thought they would.
But all of a sudden the Perth Mint does remint them and this caused quite some outrage amoung all of us, including you Holdfast.
Wrong!
No outrage from me regarding the kilo lunars!
Get your facts correct sunshine!
My comments regarding Perth's mintage policy is clear and obvious.
Perth's mintage policy for the Lunars and Koala's has always been as clear as a kick in the balls!
H
stackeract
New Member
Holdfast said:stackeract said:Holdfast said:Regardless - Perth have always been open with the Lunar Kilo coins, so it's not the Mint's problem, it's new stackers or those out of touch with what's going on in the market.
If a person pays top dollar for a lunar kilo bullion coin before researching then they are at fault!
The market is full of tricks but when a person can google and...research via many avenues and still not understand...well...that to me is just part of learning. Learning cost money or... you could use the Silver Stackers Search engine to cut your losses.
Where the kilo coins came from is not important because you should be buying 5oz coins anyway!
I don't agree with that. Just because the Perth Mint can, didn't mean they will -- in the past.
Same with the Kookaburras, obviosuly there was nothing that stopped them from reminting them, but no one ever thought they would.
But all of a sudden the Perth Mint does remint them and this caused quite some outrage amoung all of us, including you Holdfast.
Wrong!
No outrage from me regarding the kilo lunars!
Get your facts correct sunshine!
My comments regarding Perth's mintage policy is clear and obvious.
Perth's mintage policy for the Lunars and Koala's has always been as clear as a kick in the balls!
H
No outrage from you regarding the remininting of the Kookaburra coins???
One of us needs to check their memory.
Moved to the Lunar forum. Had a reply typed up earlier but lost it.
The Perth Mint has confirmed that there has been a reminting of 1kg coins from Lunar Series II - in line with the disclosed minting policy on this size coin in this series. No numbers have been disclosed (or were requested) - there will be some sleuth work on the part of interested collectors to compare yearly mintage figures to monitor the extent of "post year of issue" minting of these coins.
To offer a little insight into how "mint to order" can generate confusion in the market, distributors can place a mint-to-order purchase for a coin eligible for reminting. These distributors then on-sell coins to other distributors and dealers - and if they don't disclose that the coins are new, the pedigree is unknown. Sometimes there will be remnant stock available for direct wholesale purchase from the mint, and for a short time new kilo Tigers etc can be sourced by distributors other than the original one making the initial large mint-to-order purchase, but mint-to-order is just that - one distributor placing a big order for themselves. It doesn't automatically mean heaps of inventory will be made available for every other distributor in the world to have a share - so spare stock will pop up sporadically at a few other dealers. The mint's bullion website for example won't start listing them for sale, and they may not even be available for sale in-person at the mint if the retail shop doesn't order some of the leftovers.
Not all "old" stock available from the mint to distributors is reminted - for example, in 2012 there were 1/4oz and 1/2oz gold rabbits and tigers (2011 and 2010) available for order from the mint that were essentially made available after stocktakes were conducted. Could have been a customer in Depository selling back gold, a forgotten partially opened box down the back of the vault, who knows or cares - but original-year-of-issue coins can pop up from time to time.
Funnily enough back in 2008, 2009, 2010 etc there were silver buyers - and there are some whales out there. Not unknown for them to divest themselves and sell bulk coins to a dealer. That's how several hundred otherwise brand new 1998 1oz gold Tigers recently made their way onto the market - someone sold a few hundred oz of gold. Lucky dealer who landed that buyback.
So in a nutshell, expect that between now and 2019, early year kilo Lunars will continue to be struck on a mint-to-order basis as distributors in Germany and the USA etc decide that it's worth getting a couple of tonnes of Tigers or Dragons cranked out, and don't pay a collectors premium for these coins in the 1kg size until Series II has ended.
The Perth Mint has confirmed that there has been a reminting of 1kg coins from Lunar Series II - in line with the disclosed minting policy on this size coin in this series. No numbers have been disclosed (or were requested) - there will be some sleuth work on the part of interested collectors to compare yearly mintage figures to monitor the extent of "post year of issue" minting of these coins.
To offer a little insight into how "mint to order" can generate confusion in the market, distributors can place a mint-to-order purchase for a coin eligible for reminting. These distributors then on-sell coins to other distributors and dealers - and if they don't disclose that the coins are new, the pedigree is unknown. Sometimes there will be remnant stock available for direct wholesale purchase from the mint, and for a short time new kilo Tigers etc can be sourced by distributors other than the original one making the initial large mint-to-order purchase, but mint-to-order is just that - one distributor placing a big order for themselves. It doesn't automatically mean heaps of inventory will be made available for every other distributor in the world to have a share - so spare stock will pop up sporadically at a few other dealers. The mint's bullion website for example won't start listing them for sale, and they may not even be available for sale in-person at the mint if the retail shop doesn't order some of the leftovers.
Not all "old" stock available from the mint to distributors is reminted - for example, in 2012 there were 1/4oz and 1/2oz gold rabbits and tigers (2011 and 2010) available for order from the mint that were essentially made available after stocktakes were conducted. Could have been a customer in Depository selling back gold, a forgotten partially opened box down the back of the vault, who knows or cares - but original-year-of-issue coins can pop up from time to time.
Funnily enough back in 2008, 2009, 2010 etc there were silver buyers - and there are some whales out there. Not unknown for them to divest themselves and sell bulk coins to a dealer. That's how several hundred otherwise brand new 1998 1oz gold Tigers recently made their way onto the market - someone sold a few hundred oz of gold. Lucky dealer who landed that buyback.
So in a nutshell, expect that between now and 2019, early year kilo Lunars will continue to be struck on a mint-to-order basis as distributors in Germany and the USA etc decide that it's worth getting a couple of tonnes of Tigers or Dragons cranked out, and don't pay a collectors premium for these coins in the 1kg size until Series II has ended.
silverstar1
New Member
While the Perth mint has pulled some really dirty tricks and even outright dishonesty in my opinion , in the last year or so, The policy on the kilo lunars has been quite clear that they can remint until the end of the series, part of the reason I do not buy the kilo lunars unless very close to spot. Personally I think it is just silly to remint coins with dates that are 10 or 20 years older , I think they should just end all minting of each year when the year ends as simple as that but that is just my opinion and it is not going to happen.
1for1
Well-Known Member
Well this dirty trick is reminting and supplying without giving collectors a heads up, so they find out through SS rather than an official source, reminiscent of the Kook saga... i haven't even bothered to check as i dont buy kilo PM coins but reminting and supplying first, responding to the backlash later certainly fits with the PM modus operandi of late.
1for1
1for1
Surely no one (who has been a member of this forum for at least a few months) can complain about Series 2 1kg lunars being restruck.
It has been mentioned ad nauseum on this forum that this can happen until the end of the Series.
Not directed at anyone in particular.
It has been mentioned ad nauseum on this forum that this can happen until the end of the Series.
Not directed at anyone in particular.
stackeract
New Member
I bought my last 2008-2010 kg lunar coin in 2011 and at that time no one was thinking that the PM would actually remint them. Just like no one was thinking that the PM would remint Kookaburra coins.
I know people who paid over $2000 for a kg mouse and I feel very sorry for them! No need to make fun of them or call them stupid!
I didn't pay anywhere near that much but am now still losing quite a bit. I don't think anyone who bought a kilo mouse or ox after 2010 is still ahead.
I know people who paid over $2000 for a kg mouse and I feel very sorry for them! No need to make fun of them or call them stupid!
I didn't pay anywhere near that much but am now still losing quite a bit. I don't think anyone who bought a kilo mouse or ox after 2010 is still ahead.
Jislizard said:
Well people should have done their homework :/
Since the start of Series 2, the Perth Mint have always openly stated that the 1kg size can be reminted up until 2019.
It's even in their brochure: http://www.perthmintbullion.com/bullion-brochure/silver-bullion-brochure-2013.pdf
People assume that if it has a date stamped on it then that is when it was made. Which is a pretty easy assumption to make.
But you are right, if I was about to spend that much money on an item I would want to know a lot about it first. However when I was looking at the kilo coins I wasn't really away that there was a minting policy. I just assumed the same as many other people.
I could understand if they wanted to bring out a set of the 1 Kilo coins, or a set of coins with the 1 kilo in it, why would you store them for 12 years when you could just mint them when they were needed to add to the sets? but generally when you sell something for a year then you figure that most people who want one have managed to get one (I didn't, must have been asleep in 2012). Then you move on to the next product.
But you are right, if I was about to spend that much money on an item I would want to know a lot about it first. However when I was looking at the kilo coins I wasn't really away that there was a minting policy. I just assumed the same as many other people.
I could understand if they wanted to bring out a set of the 1 Kilo coins, or a set of coins with the 1 kilo in it, why would you store them for 12 years when you could just mint them when they were needed to add to the sets? but generally when you sell something for a year then you figure that most people who want one have managed to get one (I didn't, must have been asleep in 2012). Then you move on to the next product.
stackeract
New Member
Let me add one more piece of rant:
If the Mint remints the kilo coins when the silver price is much higher than when they originally released the coins, then it is "to some degree" acceptable.
BUT: To release the reminted coins at a time when they are CHEAPER then what they were selling for in the year of issue, then THIS IS NOT OK and is another stab in the back of their formerly loyal customers!
If the Mint remints the kilo coins when the silver price is much higher than when they originally released the coins, then it is "to some degree" acceptable.
BUT: To release the reminted coins at a time when they are CHEAPER then what they were selling for in the year of issue, then THIS IS NOT OK and is another stab in the back of their formerly loyal customers!
Matthew 26:14
New Member
I've been aware that the 1 kilo Lunar 2's could be restruck but I wonder just how many casual collectors out there bought in 2008, 2009 etc that had no idea a 5 year old coin could be restruck.
Buyer beware I suppose but it doesnt make those affected feel any better.
Buyer beware I suppose but it doesnt make those affected feel any better.
stackeract
New Member
dragafem said:we all knew that could happen...the only thing is PM just "cleared" their name about the kooks and not even a month later here we go with the kg lunars...what is next?...I might have to start collect some bostwanian coins if they exist
I bet the mouse and ox three coin silver proof sets and proof kilos are next! They have probably minted them already.
Somehow I still believe they won't do it (just like I thought they won't remint the bullion kilos anytime soon), but my confidence in this is rapidly going down the drain.
