Just purchased 1800 ounces of kook's...

[Eureka Moments]

If I drop a coin down the back of my couch today, it becomes lost and represents a loss to me because I don't have its spending power anymore. I still have the rest of my coins so the overall loss is small compared to the size of my coin stash.

The next day I find it again. Is it still lost because I didn't have it yesterday?

Perhaps if I have a decent look I might find other money also previously lost. Am I worse off the more I find?

 

[chrissilver]

Altima, I totally agree with you.

 

[Guest]

Your right im not 100% certin but I am 99.9999% sure


they have allready shown they would rather be printing money. I am almost certain that they would print their way out of troubble before ever considering defaulting.

Paying back debts with Monopoly money is a default.

no ints not a default is a default

I disagree with you. The world will see it as a default and the markets will act accordingly.

Of course the US will not say, sorry we default. They'll print and print and pay back their debts with a hopelessly inflated currency. Which is a default by any real measure.

 

[wrcmad]

It's a theoretical loss unless you sell. If the price went up it is a theoretical profit until you sell and release the profit. The market could move higher than your buy price and lower than your but price 100 times. But it makes no difference until you come to selling.

If this is the case, then why would anyone bother stacking?
It couldn't be because fiat is untrustworthy, worthless, or doomed..... all your metal wealth is based on a fiat sell price.
It couldn't be to preserve wealth or purchasing power, because it matters not what silver can buy.... only what fiat price you get for it when selling.

If the losses and profits amount solely on the buy and sell price... then how is this different to trading paper on Comex and settling in cash?

 

[trew]

Your right im not 100% certin but I am 99.9999% sure


they have allready shown they would rather be printing money. I am almost certain that they would print their way out of troubble before ever considering defaulting.

Paying back debts with Monopoly money is a default.

no ints not a default is a default

Doesn't make any difference the result will be the same

A true default will cause a collapse in the US dollar, massive inflation for the US economy and probably the USD being replaced as the world reserve currency by something else

Printing without end will eventually cause loss of faith in the US dollar, currency collapse, massive US inflation and the USD being replaced as the world reserve currency by something else

Same difference

 

[trew]

He has lost $3000 today.

He's not presently selling it and still has every ounce that he bought, so he hasn't lost anything. Obviously common sense and logic eludes you in your little world where the price of silver only ever falls and couldn't possibly ever rise. Oh no, its never going to go up ever again. Not ever. Even though the current spot price is completely unsustainable in the real world. Obviously we're all just idiots throwing our hard earned polymer notes away on something that none of us have done any due diligence on. I'm sick of the miserably whiny attitude that is reflected in your comments. Clearly you lack the intestinal fortitude to accept the reality of volatility in the market, volatility that we're all well aware of (or should be). Just sell your stack and find something else to do because clearly you're wasting your time here.

RetardedM is right. A loss is a loss.
To lack the intestinal fortitude to accept the reality of volatile markets would be to delude yourself that you have lost nothing today.
Either that, or metal really isn't a store of wealth and purchasing power, because it can only measured in fiat value at the price you sell.

We are talking about 10oz 2011 kooks here, not generic bars or paper contracts - and bought for only 2.50 above spot.

Quick search shows there are only 4 currently listed on ebay US and all asking more than $300.
I dare say if he started listing a few when he gets them he could make quite a decent profit - despite spot having dropped.

Sometimes there is more to a price than the number on the chart.

 

[col0016]

Yeah, opportunity cost seems to be pretty bad with pm's.

 

[Court Jester]

Paying back debts with Monopoly money is a default.

no ints not a default is a default

Doesn't make any difference the result will be the same

A true default will cause a collapse in the US dollar, massive inflation for the US economy and probably the USD being replaced as the world reserve currency by something else

Printing without end will eventually cause loss of faith in the US dollar, currency collapse, massive US inflation and the USD being replaced as the world reserve currency by something else

Same difference

they wont default we wont live to see that .

Mass inflation is a possibility but they will do what all other countries have done print until inflation is out onf controll, pay off their debts then dump that currency and create a "New Dollar" and start the process all over again.

 

[chrissilver]

It's a theoretical loss unless you sell. If the price went up it is a theoretical profit until you sell and release the profit. The market could move higher than your buy price and lower than your but price 100 times. But it makes no difference until you come to selling.

If this is the case, then why would anyone bother stacking?
It couldn't be because fiat is untrustworthy, worthless, or doomed..... all your metal wealth is based on a fiat sell price.
It couldn't be to preserve wealth or purchasing power, because it matters not what silver can buy.... only what fiat price you get for it when selling.

If the losses and profits amount solely on the buy and sell price... then how is this different to trading paper on Comex and settling in cash?

The point that I was trying to make was that small short term fluctuations in silver make no difference as it is an intended long term hold. It's ridiculous to count everyday I have made x loss, or x gain. It doesn't really matter until you come to sell.

 

[trew]

Mass inflation is a possibility but they will do what all other countries have done print until inflation is out onf controll, pay off their debts then dump that currency and create a "New Dollar" and start the process all over again.

And what do you forecast will happen to silver if this happens ?

 

[Eruaran]

He has lost $3000 today.

He's not presently selling it and still has every ounce that he bought, so he hasn't lost anything. Obviously common sense and logic eludes you in your little world where the price of silver only ever falls and couldn't possibly ever rise. Oh no, its never going to go up ever again. Not ever. Even though the current spot price is completely unsustainable in the real world. Obviously we're all just idiots throwing our hard earned polymer notes away on something that none of us have done any due diligence on. I'm sick of the miserably whiny attitude that is reflected in your comments. Clearly you lack the intestinal fortitude to accept the reality of volatility in the market, volatility that we're all well aware of (or should be). Just sell your stack and find something else to do because clearly you're wasting your time here.

RetardedM is right. A loss is a loss.
To lack the intestinal fortitude to accept the reality of volatile markets would be to delude yourself that you have lost nothing today.
Either that, or metal really isn't a store of wealth and purchasing power, because it can only measured in fiat value at the price you sell.

You're talking about a hypothetical loss. A hypothetical loss in which one or both of two conditions must be presupposed in order for that loss to be a real and actual loss:

1. The intent to sell immediately at a loss which obviously isn't the case.
2. That the amount of fiat currency he could convert his Pert Mint silver coins into if and when he decides to sell part or all of his stack will not ever be equal to or greater than what he initially paid for it with the same currency.

Condition 1 is obviously not true and condition 2 you cannot know with any certainty at all.

You might argue condition 2 is *possible* but once again this is hypothetical. Almost anything is *possible* but just because something is a possibility does not automatically mean it is likely.

How you follow from this with an "either that, or" comment about metal really not being a store of wealth or purchasing power doesn't make any logical sense at all.

So, you might want to reflect upon the wisdom of suggesting 'delusion' while you roll your eyes and indulge incoherent and logically fallacious argumentation. You might want to change your signature to "Anything is possible, and anything that I say is possible is not only possible, but probable, and not only probable but it is actual reality the moment I say it is.".

 

[[Kr]5s14d10]

I am just curios RetardedMonkey, if the price would have moved in the other direction would you be saying he had made $3000 profit?

Yep?

It works both ways.

How do you profit on something you haven't sold or leveraged against?

 

[Eruaran]

I am just curios RetardedMonkey, if the price would have moved in the other direction would you be saying he had made $3000 profit?

Yep?

It works both ways.

How do you profit on something you haven't sold or leveraged against?

Cause hypothetical is real! We make it real with our minds. *waves hands around in a spooky fashion*

 

[Trichter]

So many conflicting views on this thread and in this forum regarding PMs and the future of money. Looking around I don't see how anyone could come to the perenial view that Court Jester (and others here) hold: that skyrockting inflation is on the cards. I don't know who he's reading but it sounds like utter nonsense to me. Governments may not *want to allow mass defaults and deflation but I see no way they can avoid it....sooner or later. Every relevant data point I read contradicts this ...

 

[joeonepack]

The U.S. has defaulted every time they raised their debt ceiling. It's just concealed with a fancy name.

On another note. Most of you probably don't trade for a living. In the REAL world, there is no profit or loss until you liquidate your position, long or short.

/end

 

[Guest]

In the REAL world, there is no profit or loss until you liquidate your position, long or short.

I agree with this. Many do not.

 

[Trichter]

Before we see inflation we must see deflation. Let's argee on a few things ... if you do then deflation follows:

1. We are in the greatest debt bubble in history

2. When the bubble bursts, and it must, money and credit flows will seize up causing rapid, uncontrolled global economic contraction.

3. Mass deleveraging will follow which is by definition deflationary: excess claims on underlying real wealth will be extinguished (at a ratio of maybe 10 to 1, 100 to 1? - see derivatives)

4. Easy credit will be gone and cash will be king

5. Precious metals are bound to decline during this period and may become less liquid but will retain value relative to declining asset prices

6. Once the crash has occurred governments will be under extreme pressure to reinflate.

7. Precious metals will prove a solid longterm investment during subsequent government-driven inflation.


Has anyone noticed that the recent consternation regarding price moves voiced on this forum has not been articulated by long-term members? This is not just because they bought years ago, it's also because they knew then why they were buying and they still know it now. All the handwringing is just noise.

I'm not an expert of course. This is just my liited understanding. I would love to hear a decent counter argument for the above but little seems forthcoming .... our Court Jester simply opines "they won't allow it"

 

[wrcmad]

He's not presently selling it and still has every ounce that he bought, so he hasn't lost anything. Obviously common sense and logic eludes you in your little world where the price of silver only ever falls and couldn't possibly ever rise. Oh no, its never going to go up ever again. Not ever. Even though the current spot price is completely unsustainable in the real world. Obviously we're all just idiots throwing our hard earned polymer notes away on something that none of us have done any due diligence on. I'm sick of the miserably whiny attitude that is reflected in your comments. Clearly you lack the intestinal fortitude to accept the reality of volatility in the market, volatility that we're all well aware of (or should be). Just sell your stack and find something else to do because clearly you're wasting your time here.

RetardedM is right. A loss is a loss.
To lack the intestinal fortitude to accept the reality of volatile markets would be to delude yourself that you have lost nothing today.
Either that, or metal really isn't a store of wealth and purchasing power, because it can only measured in fiat value at the price you sell.

You're talking about a hypothetical loss.

I will reflect with one question:
If all losses (and therefore it follows, all gains) are hypothetical, then how do PM's preserve wealth and purchasing power? It is illogical to stack given this reasoning.

 

[Guest]

RetardedM is right. A loss is a loss.
To lack the intestinal fortitude to accept the reality of volatile markets would be to delude yourself that you have lost nothing today.
Either that, or metal really isn't a store of wealth and purchasing power, because it can only measured in fiat value at the price you sell.

You're talking about a hypothetical loss.

I will reflect with one question:
If all losses (and therefore it follows, all gains) are hypothetical, then how do PM's preserve wealth and purchasing power? It is illogical to stack given this reasoning.

Selling for a gain is realising a gain. Selling for a loss is realising a loss. If you don't sell you realise neither.

 

[wrcmad]

You're talking about a hypothetical loss.

I will reflect with one question:
If all losses (and therefore it follows, all gains) are hypothetical, then how do PM's preserve wealth and purchasing power? It is illogical to stack given this reasoning.

Selling for a gain is realising a gain. Selling for a loss is realising a loss. If you don't sell you realise neither.

Sounds like trading?
I thought silver was measured in what an oz would buy? Sorry, I must have been mistaken?