Is the Australian economy screwed no matter which party is in power?

[CriticalSilver]

The Australian economy was screwed at the end of the 1990's when all industry and production was off-shored in the name of Globalisation, when communist China became a legitimate economy, international slave labour was allowed to become a competitive force and the race to the bottom commenced with the rise of the "service" economy and the financialisation of all assets and their derivatives became the easy way to generate wealth.

But relative to other economies we are in pretty good shape because we still have some primary industries that are productive, so its not so bad. Because real wealth and new economic value are not created by the financialisation of assets or servicing that which already exists our relative prosperity continues, but without the creation of new and original products that generate value added exports we will continue to be "screwed".

That "screwing" will be slow and extended, however, as the productive industries and assets are slowly sold off in an utterly hopeless bid to pretend that the level of welfare maintained and supported by deficit spending is sustainable. The politicians will slowly suck the life out of the economy until some existential crisis manifests and we experience a step-change of some fashion. Until then it will be a slow grind generally, but not without opportunities for the astute and creative. Those of the "bunker" mentality will continue to be herded like lambs to the slaughter through low interest rates and rising costs of living.

...but at least we can rely on the career politicians to get the important things done, like endlessly debating Gay Marriage and whether the government has a mandate to hold a plebiscite or not!

 

[mmm....shiney!]

The Australian economy was screwed at the end of the 1990's when all industry and production was off-shored in the name of Globalisation, when communist China became a legitimate economy, international slave labour was allowed to become a competitive force and the race to the bottom commenced with the rise of the "service" economy and the financialisation of all assets and their derivatives became the easy way to generate wealth.

International slave labour?? Care to cite any examples?

Industry was offshored for a very good reason, it was cheaper to produce goods overseas and import them rather than for us to waste our $$ on trying to produce everything ourselves. If we didn't offshore industry you wouldn't be able to drive a $20 000 Kia that has more bells and whistles than a 15 year old Beemer and you'd be logging on to this forum using a Commodore 64.

Yearning for the old days where there was a butcher shop on every corner and there was no such thing as ebay is a failure in understanding that economies evolve, markets naturally seek value and globalisation has brought untold wealth to millions who would otherwise have lived their short, shit lives in absolute poverty. Australia was screwed because productivity became a by-word and socialism won the day.

 

[Silverthorn]

we are still living off of the reforms of the eighties and nineties. If the current crop of pollies don't get their act together soon then that capital will be all used up and any future shocks will really hurt the country.

 

[Silverthorn]

This popped up today. thought I'd beat silverpete to the punch again.

Australia's fiscal position is becoming increasingly untenable, even if current debt and deficit metrics remain low by global standards, TD Securities has warned in a strongly worded note to clients.

"The government is borrowing record amounts to consume, not invest - a ticking fiscal time bomb," the investment firm's chief Asia-Pacific macro strategist Annette Beacher said on Tuesday.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...-bomb-says-td-securities-20160830-gr48i3.html

 

[mmm....shiney!]

This popped up today. thought I'd beat silverpete to the punch again.

Australia's fiscal position is becoming increasingly untenable, even if current debt and deficit metrics remain low by global standards, TD Securities has warned in a strongly worded note to clients.

"The government is borrowing record amounts to consume, not invest - a ticking fiscal time bomb," the investment firm's chief Asia-Pacific macro strategist Annette Beacher said on Tuesday.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...-bomb-says-td-securities-20160830-gr48i3.html

Yep, but until the Opposition party comes on board, the government will be forced to continue to borrow money to spend in order to remain in power. Both sides of politics are totally fiscally irresponsible not to mention the hordes of special interest groups that encourage this irresponsibility. So nothing will change despite all the warnings.

 

[Silverthorn]

This popped up today. thought I'd beat silverpete to the punch again.

Australia's fiscal position is becoming increasingly untenable, even if current debt and deficit metrics remain low by global standards, TD Securities has warned in a strongly worded note to clients.

"The government is borrowing record amounts to consume, not invest - a ticking fiscal time bomb," the investment firm's chief Asia-Pacific macro strategist Annette Beacher said on Tuesday.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...-bomb-says-td-securities-20160830-gr48i3.html

Yep, but until the Opposition party comes on board, the government will be forced to continue to borrow money to spend in order to remain in power. Both sides of politics are totally fiscally irresponsible not to mention the hordes of special interest groups that encourage this irresponsibility. So nothing will change despite all the warnings.

Well its the oppositions job to oppose so I think the government needs to sit down with them and thrash out exactly what can be done. I don't think they can be expected to just sign off without some serious input. Super is an example. Labor don't like the retrospective nature of it which seems to be a fair position to take.

 

[SpacePete]

...the government will be forced to continue to borrow money to spend in order to remain in power.

They are not really "forced" to continue borrowing by some coercive external power. The decision to borrow and spend comes from their own desire for power as you said. And that's the problem. The prime objective of the two major parties is to gain power and stay there rather than offer the electorate real alternatives on how the nation should be governed. If the electorate turns against your policies, then so be it and better luck next time.

But what we have is parties who aren't really much different anymore and who are so focused on power above all else that they can't stick to any fundamental differentiating principles. Worse, the lust for power over the people drives them to grow the nation's security apparatus, and to introduce laws to shield themselves from transparency and accountability.




___

 

[Silverthorn]

...the government will be forced to continue to borrow money to spend in order to remain in power.

They are not really "forced" to continue borrowing by some coercive external power. The decision to borrow and spend comes from their own desire for power as you said. And that's the problem. The prime objective of the two major parties is to gain power and stay there rather than offer the electorate real alternatives on how the nation should be governed. If the electorate turns against your policies, then so be it and better luck next time. But what we have is parties who aren't really much different anymore and who are so focused on power above all else that they can't stick to any fundamental differentiating principles. Worse, the lust for power over the people drives them to grow the nation's security apparatus, and to introduce laws to shield them from transparency.

yeah, with this lot politics is more important than the well being of the country. both sides are playing wedge politics. I didn't make my point about the super changes clear. I think the governments proposal is designed specifically for the opposition to shoot down. They don't really want the changes to go through.

 

[mmm....shiney!]

...the government will be forced to continue to borrow money to spend in order to remain in power.

They are not really "forced" to continue borrowing by some coercive external power. The decision to borrow and spend comes from their own desire for power as you said. And that's the problem. The prime objective of the two major parties is to gain power and stay there rather than offer the electorate real alternatives on how the nation should be governed. If the electorate turns against your policies, then so be it and better luck next time.

But what we have is parties who aren't really much different anymore and who are so focused on power above all else that they can't stick to any fundamental differentiating principles. Worse, the lust for power over the people drives them to grow the nation's security apparatus, and to introduce laws to shield themselves from transparency and accountability.

Of course they're forced.

If they don't pander to the squeals of special interest groups, retarded economists like Richard Denniss, the Unions, crony capitalists, their own back benchers, churches, ACOSS, the media, entitled cretins in the electorate that think the tooth fairy brings prosperity and we all have to share the pie of wealth equally etc etc then they lose their job.

The electorate doesn't really know any better because of all the dickheads I mentioned above telling lies.

 

[mmm....shiney!]

Well its the oppositions job to oppose so I think the government needs to sit down with them and thrash out exactly what can be done.

Yeh but they won't.

 

[SpacePete]

...the government will be forced to continue to borrow money to spend in order to remain in power.

They are not really "forced" to continue borrowing by some coercive external power. The decision to borrow and spend comes from their own desire for power...

Of course they're forced.

If they don't pander to the squeals of special interest groups, retarded economists like Richard Denniss, the Unions, crony capitalists, their own back benchers, churches, ACOSS, the media, entitled cretins in the electorate that think the tooth fairy brings prosperity and we all have to share the pie of wealth equally etc etc then they lose their job.

No. They are not being forced, they have succumbed to their desire for power and voluntarily chosen to abandon traditional liberal values in the belief it will help them maintain their position of power over the people.

To justify the government's actions in that way downplays their level of culpability. If you deny personal responsibility then you might as well say a shoplifter can't be considered accountable for their actions since they are "forced" to steal in order to have a new Louis Vuitton handbag.

 

[mmm....shiney!]

They are not really "forced" to continue borrowing by some coercive external power. The decision to borrow and spend comes from their own desire for power...

Of course they're forced.

If they don't pander to the squeals of special interest groups, retarded economists like Richard Denniss, the Unions, crony capitalists, their own back benchers, churches, ACOSS, the media, entitled cretins in the electorate that think the tooth fairy brings prosperity and we all have to share the pie of wealth equally etc etc then they lose their job.

No. They are not being forced, they have succumbed to their desire for power and voluntarily chosen to abandon traditional liberal values in the belief it will help them maintain their position of power over the people.

To justify the government's actions in that way downplays their level of culpability. If you deny personal responsibility then you might as well say a shoplifter can't be considered accountable for their actions since they are "forced" to steal in order to have a new Louis Vuitton handbag.

SP I do share your values, but I argue that we should not downplay the level of culpability of our fellow humans. And I don't mean that in a superior way.

Our politicians provide a service or I'd rather call it a good. Like producers of television programs, running water and photocopy paper, they perceive a need and attempt to meet it. In the main they also believe that humanity is incapable of meeting its needs and organising itself without some direction, for they argue, if left to our own devices we would descend into chaos and anarchy, despite the fact that each and every day countless millions of individuals engage in mutually beneficial economic transactions attempting to seek value and meeting perceived needs all the time acting without any direction other than experience, reputation and sometimes - trial and error.

But because we are not perfect and make flawed decisions we always possess doubt and make mistakes. So we seek solace in the wisdom of the so-called experts who, because they are human and act in exactly the same way as everyone else ie meet perceived needs all the time acting without any direction other than experience, reputation and sometimes - trial and error.........make mistakes. And even after they make repeated mistakes, we keep seeking solace in their expertise and so and so on and so on.

Our politicians perceive a need and attempt to meet it, but it's an impossible goal. No individual is capable of making entirely rational decisions when they go about meeting their own economic needs, likewise no group of self-appointed experts that have never met the vast majority of individuals for whom they make decisions on their behalf is capable of making entirely rational decisions. Yet we put faith in a political system where complete strangers are supposed to possess some enlightened ability to meet the needs of people they have never ever met.

We can blame the politicians, but at some point in time, the evidence becomes overwhelming, and at that point the people become just as culpable. I'm not sure we're there yet, but it seems obvious to me we're nearly there.

 

[mmm....shiney!]

First step: make voting voluntary.

 

[Midastouchofgold]

That was an amazing piece of political philosophy mmm....shiney! I feel enlightened after reading it. Same for spacepetes comments.

 

[gingham69]

First step: make voting voluntary.

Just like Midastouchofgold I'm amazed.. That we agree on something at least!

 

[Old Codger]

"If they don't pander to the squeals of special interest groups, retarded economists like Richard Denniss, the Unions, crony capitalists, their own back benchers, churches, ACOSS, the media, entitled cretins in the electorate that think the tooth fairy brings prosperity and we all have to share the pie of wealth equally etc etc then they lose their job."



ALL of the above can be satisfied quite easily, simply borrow the money. Komrade paul proved that, remember the AU$96 BILLION? That is chicken feed now!

OC

 

[mmm....shiney!]

ALL of the above can be satisfied quite easily, simply borrow the money. Komrade paul proved that, remember the AU$96 BILLION? That is chicken feed now!

OC

"Deconstructing the stimulus doctrine"

The fixation on the idea that government can somehow stimulate the economy is a dismaying prospect. Government "stimulus" is a fallacious economic doctrine that has evolved into an entrenched political dogma in spite of the fact that government stimulus programs fail to accomplish what they promise. The continued advocacy of such failed policies is sheer quackery. In the following paragraphs, I will deconstruct and debunk the stimulus doctrine/dogma on both theoretical and historical grounds.

https://fee.org/articles/deconstructing-the-stimulus-doctrine/

Essentially, reduce government spending and cut taxes. Get government out of the way and let the market (millions of individuals seeking value and contributing to each other's economic wellbeing) find a solution.

 

[Stoic Phoenix]

Get government out of the way and let the market (millions of individuals seeking value and contributing to each other's economic wellbeing) find a solution.

+1

 

[SteveS]

.....Essentially, reduce government spending and cut taxes. Get government out of the way and let the market (millions of individuals seeking value and contributing to each other's economic wellbeing) find a solution.

+2

 

[BuggedOut]

Stimulus is the crony capitalists (and socialists) best friend, because you get to spend a whole bunch of other peoples money and grant contracts or benefits to your mates. All the while you have political cover being able to claim that it's "in the best interests of growing the economy"

Open your eyes people. Until the gen pop realize the scam then nothing is going to change.