Is the Australian economy screwed no matter which party is in power?

SpacePete

Well-Known Member
Silver Stacker
SteveS made a comment in the American election thread that I think applies to Australia:
SteveS said:
I think he's saying there is financial turmoil ahead, irrespective of who wins.

Genius.
It reminded me of a report from a few months ago that summarised a similar point in the context of Australia, i.e. things are turning to shit and politicians really aren't helping no matter what they claim or who is on power. Mainstream political parties may feed us slightly different flavours of policy bullshit, but ultimately it's still a steaming pile of shit:

Jobs and Growth... And a Few Hard Numbers

...

Conclusions

During election campaigns, competing politicians tend to exaggerate the potential impact their policies (and their opponents') are likely to have on the national economy.

In reality, Australia's economy is dependent more on the decisions of private actors (including businesses, consumers, and foreign customers) than on government. It would be folly to ascribe full credit for good economic times to the government that happened to be in power during those years and by the same token, to blame a government for negative economic events which were clearly beyond its control. (The economic fallout in Australia from the GFC is an obvious example of that latter form of misattribution.)

Politicians on all sides, therefore, should approach economic performance indicators with caution and humility. Government policies clearly have the capacity to in influence the broader economic trajectory, for better or worse. But those effects take time, and are muted or even overwhelmed by other developments.

In the context of the current election, the present government's claims to superior "economic management," rooted in the alignment of its policies with the preferences of the business community and high-income households, must be considered with particular skepticism. By most of the twelve indicators presented here, national economic performance has clearly deteriorated during its tenure. Again, this deterioration cannot be attributed solely to the actions of the government itself. But it is still far-fetched for the present government to claim "credit" for an economic record that, by concrete statistical measures, is quite poor.

Looking past the election, there are numerous indicators that Australia's economic performance is likely to get worse, not better, in the absence of strong countervailing measures. Signi cant risk factors in the economic outlook include:

See PDF: http://www.tai.org.au/sites/defualt/files/Jobs and Growth And a Few Hard Numbers.pdf
 
Yes.

I cant wait to see the damage that is done by the big 3 car manufacturers closing their factories.

Not long now, only a couple of months until Ford close.
 
SpacePete said:
mmm....shiney! said:
Is there any hope?

I'm a Libertarian, we're optimists by nature.

Politics is just the market application of various theories of social organisation. Humans by nature desire success, this desire will drive us eventually to finding and acceptinng better solutions than the ones we currently employ. Look at history, methods of social organisation have evolved enormously, it's inevitable in my opinion.

Whether you and I will be alive (I'm assuming we're about the same vintage) to see real change is another matter. We can hasten the evolutionary process by promoting alternative theories of political organisation though.

There, that's made me feel better already. :D

Edit to add: I would not consider The Australia Institute's solutions to be evolutionary. More like return to the caveman.
:P
 
Yes I agree
Too much reliance on China for a start so definitely yes too many outside influences which any government to a certain extent has no control of.
 
gingham69 said:
Yes I agree
Too much reliance on China for a start so definitely yes too many outside influences which any government to a certain extent has no control of.

What choice is there? We export minerals and foodstuffs, both of which are in high demand in Asia. Other advanced economies don't need our minerals as much (with the exception of Japan) because they mine enough of their own, the demand is not there, or they have trading agreements with other countries and we are excluded from that market.

We can't manufacture goods and have a viable industry because other countries have a comparative advantage in that area, so we're left with what we're good at: minerals and foodstuffs. We should be making it as attractive as possible to investors to invest in both of those industries. And maybe in the process we will become prosperous enough again to support a resurgent tertiary industry sector.

We live in a world with a globalised economy now, it's very difficult and probably undesirable for any government to control external influences.
 
mmm....shiney! said:
gingham69 said:
Yes I agree
Too much reliance on China for a start so definitely yes too many outside influences which any government to a certain extent has no control of.

What choice is there? We export minerals and foodstuffs, both of which are in high demand in Asia. Other advanced economies don't need our minerals as much (with the exception of Japan) because they mine enough of their own, the demand is not there, or they have trading agreements with other countries and we are excluded from that market.

We can't manufacture goods and have a viable industry because other countries have a comparative advantage in that area, so we're left with what we're good at: minerals and foodstuffs. We should be making it as attractive as possible to investors to invest in both of those industries. And maybe in the process we will become prosperous enough again to support a resurgent tertiary industry sector.

We live in a world with a globalised economy now, it's very difficult and probably undesirable for any government to control external influences.
Why can't we become competitive in other areas as well as agriculture and resources? I don't see why they should be mutually exclusive. Maybe it's just that the largesse from a temporary period of high demand has made the nation complacent, and emboldened politicians to lead us up shit creek without a contingency paddle.
 
Or maybe the tides of history are turning against our nation and it really is hopeless :(
 
mmm....shiney! said:
gingham69 said:
Yes I agree
Too much reliance on China for a start so definitely yes too many outside influences which any government to a certain extent has no control of.

What choice is there? We export minerals and foodstuffs, both of which are in high demand in Asia. Other advanced economies don't need our minerals as much (with the exception of Japan) because they mine enough of their own, the demand is not there, or they have trading agreements with other countries and we are excluded from that market.

We can't manufacture goods and have a viable industry because other countries have a comparative advantage in that area, so we're left with what we're good at: minerals and foodstuffs. We should be making it as attractive as possible to investors to invest in both of those industries. And maybe in the process we will become prosperous enough again to support a resurgent tertiary industry sector.

We live in a world with a globalised economy now, it's very difficult and probably undesirable for any government to control external influences.

I agree with your last sentence because we do and therefore plenty of potential for other avenues.
My point was we shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket and be so reliant on just one country that certainly has it's own issues and agendas which wouldn't be putting us first or even second that's for sure.
 
I have been hearing about something called consumption based manufacturing for a couple of years now and it seems to be finally getting some traction and hitting mainstream.

https://www.ted.com/talks/olivier_scalabre_the_next_manufacturing_revolution_is_here

If this really is the next big thing, it is going to drastically change the way that we manufacture and purchase goods. The East will be p!ssed for sure but the outcome is that we may see jobs coming back to home soil and I am all in favour of that.

Can Australia take advantage of the next big thing? Probably not with the current batch of crooks running either side of the House but it would be great opportunity for somebody with a spine stepped up to the plate. I wonder what Nigel Farage is up to these days?
 
SpacePete said:
Why can't we become competitive in other areas as well as agriculture and resources?

Comparative advantage. It's the same reason that New Zealand can't compete with us in exporting coal, or why we can't compete with Bangla Desh in textiles. We have an advantage over other countries because we possess resources/skills which they don't eg gold, enormous plains to graze cattle, innovative agricultural practices etc, they have an advantage over us because they posses resources/skills we don't eg cheap labour (Asia), very advanced manufacturing equipment (Germany) etc. No one is going to drop $billions into the Australian economy if the return is better elsewhere.

We need to reinforce the industries we're good at, sell farms to the Chinese, reduce royalties on the extraction of minerals etc and as our levels of productivity improve in those industries as a result of increasing capital expenditure and our coinciding levels of wealth improve then there'll possibly be demand to invest in other areas as we have more disposable income at hand.

In the meanwhile, as you read this post, play the video below. It's an example of comparative advantage in action and it's relaxing and will soothe your concerns, and I'm a sucker for a viola player in a long silver dress, as long as it is a woman. ;)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKrxPTePXEQ[/youtube]

Like I said, I'm an optimist.

SpacePete said:
I don't see why they should be mutually exclusive. Maybe it's just that the largesse from a temporary period of high demand has made the nation complacent, and emboldened politicians to lead us up shit creek without a contingency paddle.

Have a look at your thread title. ;)
 
So let's assume that the Aussie economy is "screwed" soon, what does that actually mean? What's the effect? (assuming your job and income is safe)
 
SP,

"Is there any hope?"

NO!

We are doomed to 'austerity' far worse than we can imagine, and few here will see the "sunlit uplands" beyond.

in fact, a "new dark age".

OC
 
SpacePete said:
Or maybe the tides of history are turning against our nation and it really is hopeless :(

Not turning against...history is driving us towards the rocks.

Milton Friedman pointed out that throughout human history government degrades society from a golden era of freedom and prosperity to enslavement and misery ...since the 5th century BC in Greece, the Renaissance to our world today, government's history is of enslaving its economy & citizens with restrictions and poor decisions which ultimately end that society.

Every year a few more laws are added to the slate. Its much easier to add a new law than to repeal an old one. Until eventually the slate is full. At those times, citizens live in a prison state.

The golden eras of human history have all involved a wiping clean of the slate. The Renaissance happened thanks to the plagues wiping out the controls of govt. and the church. The govt. withered away without taxes since everyone was dying & everyone lost faith in the church since everyone was dying horrible deaths. Movement was curtailed due to quarantines which meant Govt. bureaucrats & tax collectors couldn't enforce the Govts rule across vast areas anymore. Without these restrictions local capitalism blossomed, education rebuilt unfettered by the dogmatic horse $#!t of the church and humanity entered a new golden age.

In 1700's Europe, where laws had become so abundant and onerous that stealing a loaf of bread was punishible by death...the discovery of the new world & Australia opened up the chance of escape from the shackles of Govt. New lands where Govt was too small or far away to enforce rules.

Alas history shows us that we're once again letting Govt. destroy our success. Its the rule of Govt. Whether we had a mining boom or not, a global recession or not...govt always screws it up.
 
SilverDJ said:
So let's assume that the Aussie economy is "screwed" soon, what does that actually mean? What's the effect? (assuming your job and income is safe)
If your job and income are safe then you'll be very fortunate, but you may find you are the target of increased taxation as the broader taxation base declines while social security demands increase.
 
There could be more "budget repair" measures too, which will basically be a wealth grab.

Anything the government can get is hands on with be fair game if they can spin it in some way. Here's a few speculative ideas:

* Super funds forced to invest in government projects or budget repair bonds.
* Massively increased council rates (a percentage of the payments can be deferred against eventual sale proceeds in some cases.)
* Land tax on the principal place of residence.
* Death duties / inheritance taxes.
* Unregistered holdings of gold confiscated (unexplained wealth laws)
* "Temporary" emergency levies on everything
* GST increase.
* Bank deposit levy
* Fuel tax increases
* Big increases to tobacco and alcohol taxes
* Police budgets increasingly reliant on fines and asset confiscation. Massive increase in arbitrary laws with associated fines.
* Private debtors prisons
 
There are many problems in the "mature" economies worldwide like Europe, US/Canada, Japan, Australia etc. There is no 1 single problem but the panacea of the past 60 years of manipulating interest rates (monetary policy sometimes erroneously referred to as a supply side solution) have failed since the GFC of nearly 10 years ago. The net result is near zero interest rates (officially anyway) having very little affect on the overall economy.
 
SpacePete said:
There could be more "budget repair" measures too, which will basically be a wealth grab.

Anything the government can get is hands on with be fair game if they can spin it in some way. Here's a few speculative ideas:

* Super funds forced to invest in government projects or budget repair bonds.
* Massively increased council rates (a percentage of the payments can be deferred against eventual sale proceeds in some cases.)
* Land tax on the principal place of residence.
* Death duties / inheritance taxes.
* Unregistered holdings of gold confiscated (unexplained wealth laws)
* "Temporary" emergency levies on everything
* GST increase.
* Bank deposit levy
* Fuel tax increases
* Big increases to tobacco and alcohol taxes
* Police budgets increasingly reliant on fines and asset confiscation. Massive increase in arbitrary laws with associated fines.
* Private debtors prisons

Good call...However I think some of what you said alas won't be speculative but guaranteed :(
 
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